Best In-Home Defence Round???

[bluezguy 4]

Sorry if this one's been 'flogged' to death but I can't find any info newer than 2010 on this question. Has any company manufactured a truly 'in house' defencive round for our beloved carbines this year?

 

I see Magsafe for 6 rounds at $25.95. Is Wolf Military Classic HP still one of the best for this purpose??

 

Thanks.

[VladTepes 160]

shooting a rifle round like this in your house? like as in INSIDE? I am far from expert but I have shot 7.62x39 through many things... and I would be very apprehensive to shoot that round inside.. I use a pistol caliber carbine for any interior HD situation.. remember.. you are responsible for EVERY round you fire...

 

sorry that it may not be a direct answer to your question.. just something to think about..

[Donkeyshins 87]

My vote is .45 ACP from a Model 1911. Theoretically, you could use a Saiga 12 or 410 loaded with a defensive round, but a carbine is not suited for home defense (unless you are picking off zombies from your window).

Edited November 7, 2011 by Donkeyshins

[mcgr0172 2]

Unless you are single and living in the middle of nowhere with a close neighbor, stick to the pistol calibers like Damagedworld suggested. I personally prefer a glock and a flashlight next to me when I sleep. Also, you never know what time of the day a home invasion may occur. I try to carry at all times when at home for this very reason. Lot easier to keep my glock on a hip than it is to lug around my saiga.

[jimdigriz 580]

My vote is .45 ACP from a Model 1911. Theoretically, you could use a Saiga 12 or 410 loaded with a defensive round, but a carbine is not suited for home defense (unless you are picking off zombies from your window).

 

Depends on where you live and how the house and neighborhood are arranged. I don't have any problem picking up a 5.45 or 5.56 weapon for home defense for my situation. (A 7.62x39 might pose a bit of a problem however). Generally speaking, a pistol or pistol caliber carbine is vastly inferior to an AK when trouble comes to call.

[VladTepes 160]

My vote is .45 ACP from a Model 1911. Theoretically, you could use a Saiga 12 or 410 loaded with a defensive round, but a carbine is not suited for home defense (unless you are picking off zombies from your window).

 

Depends on where you live and how the house and neighborhood are arranged. I don't have any problem picking up a 5.45 or 5.56 weapon for home defense for my situation. (A 7.62x39 might pose a bit of a problem however). Generally speaking, a pistol or pistol caliber carbine is vastly inferior to an AK when trouble comes to call.

 

 

how is a pistol caliber carbine "vastly inferior" to an AK... "when trouble calls" trouble is generally in the form of one or two intruders.. not a roving band of taliban insurgents with body armor... it would generally equate to engagement in 10-30ft ranges MAX... the pistol caliber carbine I keep next to my bed is loaded with 40S&W is far lighter and more compact than my AK.. and allows for easier movement.. I can hit COM steel at 150-175 yards with just the standard sights on the weapon even though it is equipped with a trijicon.. if that is "vastly inferior" I strongly suggest you move.. not trying to be an ass.. but I just have no idea what you mean by vastly inferior..

 

no offense intended of course.. just my 2cents..

[bluezguy 4]

Thanks for your responses. I carry a Glock 30 almost 24/7 and have a few others around the house. My whole deal is to have one in every room of the house ... ya never know. My Mosin Nagant 91/30 however, does not qualify for her own room.

 

Since acquiring my new Saiga, I've been lurking around many AK47 web sites and it seems to be quite a popular thing to find the right ammo to use in the event of the unexpected at home.

It seems like the popular choices are certain Hornady and Wolf rounds with many 'gel' tests and others having been performed.

[BuffetDestroyer 969]

Any softpoint round that is reliable in your weapon will work. Wolf, Brown Bear, TulAmmo and US manufacturers have them in 123, 124 and 154 grain varieties. Russian will be cheaper. Hornady V-Max will work well too.

 

Magsafe and Extremeshock are overpriced and often don't deliver the reliability and promised results (i.e. non-penetration through walls, but instant kill to all intruders) that you are paying for.

 

Wolf MC 124 HP is out of stock just about everywhere.

Edited November 7, 2011 by BuffetDestroyer

[imarangemaster 315]

Wolf Military Clasic 124 grain HP is devastating. In an informal test, I shot the muddy creek bank of the creek on my property in Illinois. The 122 FMJ blasted a tennis ball size hole in the muddy bank. The Wolf MC with the 8M Sapsan bullet blasted a hole that a cantaloup would sit in right next to the FMJ hole.

[jimdigriz 580]

My vote is .45 ACP from a Model 1911. Theoretically, you could use a Saiga 12 or 410 loaded with a defensive round, but a carbine is not suited for home defense (unless you are picking off zombies from your window).

 

Depends on where you live and how the house and neighborhood are arranged. I don't have any problem picking up a 5.45 or 5.56 weapon for home defense for my situation. (A 7.62x39 might pose a bit of a problem however). Generally speaking, a pistol or pistol caliber carbine is vastly inferior to an AK when trouble comes to call.

 

 

how is a pistol caliber carbine "vastly inferior" to an AK... "when trouble calls" trouble is generally in the form of one or two intruders.. not a roving band of taliban insurgents with body armor... it would generally equate to engagement in 10-30ft ranges MAX... the pistol caliber carbine I keep next to my bed is loaded with 40S&W is far lighter and more compact than my AK.. and allows for easier movement.. I can hit COM steel at 150-175 yards with just the standard sights on the weapon even though it is equipped with a trijicon.. if that is "vastly inferior" I strongly suggest you move.. not trying to be an ass.. but I just have no idea what you mean by vastly inferior..

 

I'm sure your pistol caliber carbine will get the job done in well over 95% of cases. I prefer to get as close to 100% as possible, though. If you follow the news of home invasions, a couple of things become clear: It usually involves multiple attackers, and body armor is being used more and more often by thugs. When there are multiple bad guys to combat, a COM hit that doesn't penetrate is a real bummer.

 

The AK will cut through body armor easily, will do significantly more damage than a pistol caliber, and has unparalleled reliability. It is true that cramped quarters might make me opt for something else, though. Fortunately, that is not an issue for me.

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

"The AK will cut through body armor easily"

 

Meh some of it. No so much on the the higher end of plated vests. If that stuff is involved best have a 308.

Use a shotgun or pistol caliber, I keep a Kel-Tec Sub2K in 40 cal decked out for low light, damned near impossible to miss with it.

 

Couple of other points, remember anything you use will wind up the police evidence room for some undisclosed time afterwards.

Also understand a jury MAY take a dim view of an "assault rifle" being used. Just a reality to consider.

[VladTepes 160]

"The AK will cut through body armor easily"

 

Meh some of it. No so much on the the higher end of plated vests. If that stuff is involved best have a 308.

Use a shotgun or pistol caliber, I keep a Kel-Tec Sub2K in 40 cal decked out for low light, damned near impossible to miss with it.

 

Couple of other points, remember anything you use will wind up the police evidence room for some undisclosed time afterwards.

Also understand a jury MAY take a dim view of an "assault rifle" being used. Just a reality to consider.

 

I have a CX4 in a similar configuration..

 

[jimdigriz 580]

"The AK will cut through body armor easily"

 

Meh some of it. No so much on the the higher end of plated vests. If that stuff is involved best have a 308.

Pretty unlikely to encounter.

 

Use a shotgun or pistol caliber, I keep a Kel-Tec Sub2K in 40 cal decked out for low light, damned near impossible to miss with it.

I had an S2K. Great gun, but the charging handle is in a really bad location if you should need to run the bolt to clear a malfunction.

 

Couple of other points, remember anything you use will wind up the police evidence room for some undisclosed time afterwards.

Also understand a jury MAY take a dim view of an "assault rifle" being used. Just a reality to consider.

Possibly, but my focus is on defeating the intruders and protecting my family as effectively as possible.

[imarangemaster 315]

When I lived in a rural setting, either an AK or Inland USGI M1 carbine was my house weapon. In town, it is either the M1 Carbine of my Remington 870 deer gun - I load first two buckshot, the second two slugs.

Edited November 8, 2011 by imarangemaster

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

"Pretty unlikely to encounter." God I would hope so.

However, the cops are seeing more and more of it so there is that upward trend.

 

AKA Damagedworld those are great little carbines. I went with the Sub2K because it will fold up and fit nicely hidden in a back pack.

We have learned our Katrina lessons well down here.

The charging handle like the AK requires a bit of practice to be able to react quickly.

[imarangemaster 315]

"The AK will cut through body armor easily"

 

Meh some of it. No so much on the the higher end of plated vests. If that stuff is involved best have a 308.

Pretty unlikely to encounter.

 

Use a shotgun or pistol caliber, I keep a Kel-Tec Sub2K in 40 cal decked out for low light, damned near impossible to miss with it.

I had an S2K. Great gun, but the charging handle is in a really bad location if you should need to run the bolt to clear a malfunction.

 

Couple of other points, remember anything you use will wind up the police evidence room for some undisclosed time afterwards.

Also understand a jury MAY take a dim view of an "assault rifle" being used. Just a reality to consider.

Possibly, but my focus is on defeating the intruders and protecting my family as effectively as possible.

 

Sad to say, but perception of prosecutors and juries does matter. An 870 or ww2 USGI carbine like someones dad (like mine) or grandpa carried in the war is more "all American." I investigated a drive by shooting done with an AK when I was a Sheriff's Investigator. The fact it was an EVlL assault weapon weighed in heavily with prosecutor and jury. It was "the weapon of Middle East terrorists!"

[jimdigriz 580]

I investigated a drive by shooting done with an AK when I was a Sheriff's Investigator. The fact it was an EVlL assault weapon weighed in heavily with prosecutor and jury. It was "the weapon of Middle East terrorists!"

 

In that case, I'll use only American weapons in my future drive-by shootings. ;-)

[BuffetDestroyer 969]

"Pretty unlikely to encounter." God I would hope so.

However, the cops are seeing more and more of it so there is that upward trend.

You can get a cheap IIA or IIIA vest used for $150 which will stop most pistol rounds which is what the police would be using as a primary. These will not stop a .223 or most other rifle caliber rounds.

 

To get the ceramic plates, you are going to be well over $500 for just a front plate and carrier. Typical house burglars may have the $150 stuff, but not likely going to have 50+ pounds of $2,000 anti-ballistic gear to weigh them down where you would need more than a 7.62x39 or .223.

 

If you really think they are wearing anti ballistic material, shoot the legs or head.

[Zambidis 90]

I am far from expert but I have shot 7.62x39 through many things... and I would be very apprehensive to shoot that round inside.. I use a pistol caliber carbine for any interior HD situation.. remember.. you are responsible for EVERY round you fire...

 

Use an appropriate round like the 124 grain v-max, that is what I would use, and it will over penetrate less than a many pistol rounds.

 

 

My vote is .45 ACP from a Model 1911. Theoretically, you could use a Saiga 12 or 410 loaded with a defensive round, but a carbine is

 

See above. A 230 grain 45 ACP round is not a very good choice when you are concerned about over penetration. A carbine is a perfectly suitable home defense weapon. It has notable advantages over a hand gun and is much easier to wield for many people than a shotgun. There are a lot of very knowledgeable trainers that would tell you a carbine can be a great choice. Most of the critiques come from ignorance.

 

 

and body armor is being used more and more often by thugs

any data to back that up. If you live in a stash house, or keep a lot of cash, drugs or nice things on hand and bad people know it, I would be concerned. Outside of that it is pretty unlikely. Of course so is any kind of home invasion or hot burglary.

 

 

how is a pistol caliber carbine "vastly inferior" to an AK... "when trouble calls" trouble is generally in the form of one or two intruders.. not a roving band of taliban insurgents with body armor...

 

From a terminal ballistics standpoint the difference is night and day. Run the numbers or consult one of the many gel test. Run the numbers. Look at the gel tests. Or analogize to another context. I wouldn't use my 9mm or 40 cal PCC to shoot a deer but wouldn't hesitate to shoot one with a x39. If the difference matters for a humane kill surely it is of some import when the task at hand is stopping an imminent threat. A PCC may get the job done but at least in terms of terminal ballistics it is vastly inferior.

 

As to overall other considerations may apply. One of those is over penetration you mentioned in your first post. Again rifle caliber with the right bullet is a MUCH better choice than a 185 grain 40 cal JHP out of PCC.

 

 

 

To get the ceramic plates, you are going to be well over $500 for just a front plate and carrier.

 

No, you can get a US palm defender for $200 and a front plate for $230. Of course one could spend more.

 

To answer the question the OP presented, I would definitive avoid FMJ rounds. I would most likely opt for the Hornady 124 grain v max for HD use.

[jimdigriz 580]

and body armor is being used more and more often by thugs

any data to back that up.

 

Just anecdotal evidence from following news articles. Try googling for it, and you will find plenty.

[sidewinder11 7]

home defense or inside a house = shotgun.

 

end of debate

[VladTepes 160]

home defense or inside a house = shotgun.

 

end of debate

 

I guess at the end of the day agree to disagree.. and hope the choice you make is the right one for you..

[BpS12 512]

I've heard some guys are using Frangible ammo. Topping off with 3-5rnds frang, and then HPs. I tend to run whichever CCW I have on me with the S12 as back up and the RPK with HPs as an alternative.

[joek4061 6]

home defense or inside a house = shotgun.

 

end of debate

 

+1 I really don't know how you can argue against a shot gun.

[bikermutt07 10]

I think it's all about product placement.

 

Someone shoots me in the eye wit a spit ball I'm not giving them any trouble.

[VladTepes 160]

home defense or inside a house = shotgun.

 

end of debate

 

+1 I really don't know how you can argue against a shot gun.

 

 

go shoot one in an interior structure in the dark without hearing protection.. and your opinion may change..

[imarangemaster 315]

home defense or inside a house = shotgun.

 

end of debate

 

+1 I really don't know how you can argue against a shot gun.

 

 

go shoot one in an interior structure in the dark without hearing protection.. and your opinion may change..

 

I have! Trust me, with the adrenaline pumping, you will barely hear the bang! I have even fire a 12 gauge from inside a vehicle. If you are in a real life lethal situation, the bang of the shotgun will be the least of your worries.

Edited November 9, 2011 by imarangemaster

[VladTepes 160]

home defense or inside a house = shotgun.

 

end of debate

 

+1 I really don't know how you can argue against a shot gun.

 

 

go shoot one in an interior structure in the dark without hearing protection.. and your opinion may change..

 

I have! Trust me, with the adrenaline pumping, you will barely hear the bang! I have even fire a 12 gauge from inside a vehicle. If you are in a real life lethal situation, the bang of the shotgun will be the least of your worries.

 

interesting.. I shot one in a 3 walled partial structure and it was awful.. and that was in the daylight.. but hey maybe in a "life or death" situation things change..

[AE86FL 6]

Both carbine and SG are lethal enough to get the job done if the operator do his part. The tactic and the skill of the operator are far more important. I got both SG and 9mm carbine and place them around the house at different rooms. When SHTF, i will pick whatever is close by to get the job done.

 

+To the OP, as mentioned before, my choice of SD ammo for my 74 around my property is the Hornady V-max, great expansion.

Edited November 9, 2011 by AE86FL

[imarangemaster 315]

I am a BIG fan of the M1 Carbine as a house PDW. I used a 110 grain JSP Remington (1950 fps) to kill an almost 200 pound deer at about 100 yards with a single heart-ling shot. The exit wound took out several ribs and I could stick 4 fingers and a thumb in the exit wound. I was impressed! I carried it as a LEO trunk weapon for years. Keep it under 100-150 yards with good ammo, and it is very lethal. Even FMJ yaws and tumbles and does a decent job at 100.