To go magnified, or dot. Which and why?

[sepherus 0]

I have a .223 that I converted a while back and I never figured out what I wanted to do for optics. It currently has a MI handguard on it so that opens up a few choices there alone. Mostly thinking about an Aimpoint C3 (I have easy access for a good price) or a PA micro. I've also considered getting a TWS rail and mounting a compact 3X scope on it like the Buris AR332. Ranges in my area only go to 200 yards max, so I'm not sure magnified optics would be ideal for me. I'm not the kind of guy who shoots his "combat style" rifles from a bench. Which would be most recommended and why?

[sickness 89]

I have a .223 that I converted a while back and I never figured out what I wanted to do for optics. It currently has a MI handguard on it so that opens up a few choices there alone. Mostly thinking about an Aimpoint C3 (I have easy access for a good price) or a PA micro. I've also considered getting a TWS rail and mounting a compact 3X scope on it like the Buris AR332. Ranges in my area only go to 200 yards max, so I'm not sure magnified optics would be ideal for me. I'm not the kind of guy who shoots his "combat style" rifles from a bench. Which would be most recommended and why?

 

Well, I think you need to clarify your purposes for the rifle and optic.

 

Consider that the .223 round sheds a lot of velocity by the time it gets to 300 yds. So much so that past that, it isn't going to fragment reliably. So for combat purposes, .223 is really only good out to 300 yds. Unless your vision is very poor, you should be able to shoot 300 yds with a red dot.

 

Now, if you want to punch small holes in paper and aren't worrying about fragmentation properties and such, then magnified optics start making a lot of sense.

 

You could do both magnified, and red dot: Get the TWS rail, put an Aimpoint C3 up towards the front, and get yourself a magnifier with a flip-to-the-side mount for the rear. Lucid even makes a variable power magnifier.

 

The downside to that set up is it will be a bit on the heavy side with all that gear, and you'll probably want some sort of cheek riser. OTOH, it is the most flexible set up you can get at this point.

 

Personally, I went with an Aimpoint C3 and the RS Regulate mount. It would be nice to have a magnifier, but I can get to about 300 yds without it, so.. I'm OK with that.

[chunga 31]

I have the PA md-06 on a MI lower with a Palm upper. I finally got to test it at the range. On an 8" X 8" target I am unable to see the smaller diamonds on the corners of the target @ 50 yds. What I learned is that I need glasses although I'm not really sure I could ever see something that small without magnification. I can see the larger diamond in the center target and can hit it every time but I need the spotting scope to confirm this. This setup is way lighter than my other one equipped with a 3" X 9" with a UTG removable side mount/SGM quadrail. That one is heavier but I can reach out to 100 accurately with no problem. Never tried to shoot farther.

 

Unless you have better eyesight than me expect improved accuracy with some magnification. I don't think there is a remedy for that using the Red Dot mounted forward like I have.

Edited December 9, 2011 by chunga

[gunfun 3,931]

I vote magnified for any option.

 

However, I would choose "other". I like conventional optics. Most of the people I know who say they prefer Irons have thier scopes set up to be awkward to use, so I can see why they hate them. If you set everything so that holding your weapon naturally has your scope in line with your eye, shooting scoped is faster, and you can see what you are shooting at better. You know the military stats on performance improvements with any glass verses none. Across the board improvement in any category.

 

For rifles, I like medium magnification starting out low power, with a smooth zoom knob. Visual range finders like mil-dot or hash marks are a big plus. So are turret knobs for long range rifles. to me the main thing is a large diameter rear objective is the big thing. It smooths everything out and makes it easy to find your target quickly.Who cares how much or little magnification you have if it is projected onto a 1" circle? It's the difference between watching a movie on your i-phone vs. the theater. Pricey optics are nicer, but objective size makes a bigger difference in use than better parallax management.

 

 

I for have a couple of these for shotguns:

one with variable zoom starting at 1.5x and the other fixed at 2x. I use them with slugs. The reticle gives a good visual estimate of range for kaintuck windage, and is proportional to slug drop, and buck spread with the right choke. I really like these scopes. They have almost 6" of eye relief, and with zoom I can see what I am shooting at now that my eyes suck.

 

All of this of course is down to personal preference. Shoot what you feel comfortable with.

[Horse 39]

.223 AK? 300 yard gun at it's most effective ranges.

 

Red dot.

 

Pick your favorite Micro or 30mm full size.

 

Practice.

[dieb4iwake 60]

Horse, you know of any 3x magnification optics that will fit your mount?

[CPF 80]

4x POSP scope. There is no better scope for an AK in my opinion. Can use your irons while the scope is on, too, which is quite a benefit.

[CavScout888 0]

I can touch things at 300m without much trouble with a CompM on an 14.5" barrelled M4. Though I don't have much faith in AK accuracy or 7.62x39, I think a CompML3 on a good siderail mount would work out to what I consider the max effective range of an AK. Aimpoints (mil styles) are as tough as the weapon (for an optic). But in the end it depends on the user and their environment. This is almost like a rifleman/designated marksman question.

 

The Russian army does it just like the US army I think. 5.45x39 with some sort of red/green dot/holographic sight that looks like a C-More?

[sepherus 0]

Well, after a long time of debating this and talking things over with many better shooters than my self, mostly a buddy of mine in the Corps, I've decided I'm definitely going to go with a magnified optic. Ideally, I'd like a TWS and a TA33 ACOG (you can use the sight hole from the old carry handle method as a peep on a TWS rail I found out,) but that is about $600 out of my budget at the moment, especially considering I have a family addition on the way and moving expenses to a larger place to make room. However it is tax time, and I should be getting back a fair amount to make that possible. If not, I'll snag a Burris AR332 and deal until I can afford the ACOG. My M&P 15-22 can use it after that I'm sure.

 

I found that closer range stuff was not hindered with a setup similar to this with a good cheek weld and 2 eyed technique, and it made longer range stuff much easier. I don't see why it can't work on an AK if you set up your rifle to have a good cheek weld and it's a solid shooter. I know my Saiga is much more accurate than I am when I'm using good ammo. I stopped buying cheaper stuff because I wasn't getting good results. After the swap my group sizes were cut to about a third of what they were using Wolf and Tula. Big shock right? Yeah I didn't think so either. My rifle seems to like Silver Bear (thankfully) and PMC pretty well, and doesn't mind most other brass stuff. I do get a bit more blast and flash with the brass ammo though. Too bad I live in NY and thus cannot have a flash hider. Might look into a FSC 556 or a Battle Comp down the road if it really becomes an issue.

[Nailbomb 10,221]

Vortex Strikefire might make a good compromise. red dot with removable 2x magnification.

[Nailbomb 10,221]

Closing Poll.

 

ending results

 

PA micro on MI mount (1 votes [12.50%])

Aimpoint C3 on MI mount (1 votes [12.50%])

TWS rail and compact 3x style sight (Buris AR332, PA compact)? (3 votes [37.50%])

Other (please explain) (3 votes [37.50%])