timy 1,185 Posted November 29, 2011 Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 http://www.guns.com/65mm-grendel-gets-official-saami-specs-saigas-and-veprs.html I'm not posting to argue the merits of 6.5 vs 308 vs 7.62x54r vs 6.8 SPC vs 7.62x39 vs 50 BMG vs whatever. If anyone wants to, that's fine with me though. I will say that before I bought my 308 I seriously considered going with a 6.5 Grendel on an AR platform though. It was a very close call. I do find it very interesting that the Russian factories are being pushed by Wolf to bring this thing out. With Wolf now making 6.5 steel cased ammo, they obviously have a vested interest in it happening. The more, the merrier, I always say. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dayofruin 425 Posted November 29, 2011 Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 I'm hoping for the 9x19. But there's already another thread for that. Personally, I think just about anything new would be cool. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shandlanos 1,470 Posted November 29, 2011 Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 In short: Fuck yeah! If I can get steel-cased 6.5 in the same price range as 7.62x39 and 5.45x39, I would definitely add a 6.5 AK rifle to the collection. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
longhorn 81 Posted November 29, 2011 Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 Let's hope so, if they chamber a Saiga for it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DrThunder88 912 Posted November 29, 2011 Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 I've tried to consolidate the number of calibers of ammo I amass, but I could see expanding for 6.5 Grendel. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
schultze13 354 Posted November 29, 2011 Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 (edited) I know Krebs did one and they did a great review of the Krebs in the shotgun news. May have to think about it. Edited November 29, 2011 by SCHULTZE Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DOMIDARKO 5 Posted November 29, 2011 Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 Hell ya, that would be a great alternative to an AR10 in .243, especially with affordable ammo. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
timy 1,185 Posted November 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 I'm hoping for the 9x19. But there's already another thread for that. Personally, I think just about anything new would be cool. Anything new would be cool, but the 6.5 Grendel is my cartridge of choice. If it and the AK platform like each other I'll be buying a new gun. Again, I'm not trying to start a caliber argument but this is my favorite. In short: Fuck yeah! If I can get steel-cased 6.5 in the same price range as 7.62x39 and 5.45x39, I would definitely add a 6.5 AK rifle to the collection. I should clarify a bit. From what I've seen on the Grendel forum Wolf hasn't released the steel case for sale yet but it is doing preproduction runs. It is going to happen, and soon. A price of under thirty cents a round was mentioned there, but I don't know how accurate that is. Thing is, the more of it made in steel or brass will help lower the price on all of it. Let's hope so, if they chamber a Saiga for it. I'm thinking this is very doable on the AK platform given the cartridge's parent caliber. It wouldn't take as much work as the 308. I've tried to consolidate the number of calibers of ammo I amass, but I could see expanding for 6.5 Grendel. LOL! What am I laughing at? I feel the same way. I know Krebs did one and they did a great review of the Krebs in the shotgun news. May have to think about it. Price on a 6.5 Saiga should be in line with a 7.62.x39. That could definitely be a game changer on sales taking off. Along with steel cased ammo, of course. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
timy 1,185 Posted November 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 Here's a link to the Grendel forum where they are talking about Wolf steel cased ammo. http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthread.php?1181-Wolf-Steel-Case Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Salmonking 149 Posted November 29, 2011 Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 Eh, this seems to be a case of giving us something we could want, rather than giving us something we do want. There's been a huge demand for 7.62x54r and 22lr for years. Yeah, 6.5 grendel is nice, but it really all is determinate (for me) on whether inexpensive ammunition is made available. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 And then EVERYONE will whine and bitch like little girls with their panties cinched up in their snappers because not only are there NO HIGH CAPACITY MAGAZINES for a 6.5 Grendel Saiga... but the SECOND whine will be how bad the rifle dings up the brass when people try to reload for it... because the wolf stuff just wont shoot better than a 2 or 3 inch group at a hundred yards... and EVERYONE that has one will need sub 1/4 MOA out of their rifle... because its a 6.5 Grendel, after all... So yall just enjoy the pipe dreams... I would get a savage in 6.5 Grendel and shoot one hole groups all day long at 100... and NEVER have to whine about magazines, or damaged brass. Sorry to toss in a good heapin, healthy dose of REALITY to your thread. NO CRYBABIES! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Donkeyshins 87 Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 Honestly, I'd probably just go for a standard AR/M4 platform barreled for 6.5 Grendel since they already exist and since I don't have a Barbie gun (yet). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
timy 1,185 Posted November 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 (edited) Eh, this seems to be a case of giving us something we could want, rather than giving us something we do want. There's been a huge demand for 7.62x54r and 22lr for years. Yeah, 6.5 grendel is nice, but it really all is determinate (for me) on whether inexpensive ammunition is made available. To each his own, of course, but is the demand that high for 7.62 x54r? I've seen it mentioned a time or two here and that's about it. Personally, I'd rather go with 30 06 if going that route since rimmed ammo has always been problematic in self loaders from what I understand. A 22 would be nice I suppose, but not with a low cap mag hidden inside a fake AK hi cap. Just my opinion, of course. And then EVERYONE will whine and bitch like little girls with their panties cinched up in their snappers because not only are there NO HIGH CAPACITY MAGAZINES for a 6.5 Grendel Saiga... but the SECOND whine will be how bad the rifle dings up the brass when people try to reload for it... because the wolf stuff just wont shoot better than a 2 or 3 inch group at a hundred yards... and EVERYONE that has one will need sub 1/4 MOA out of their rifle... because its a 6.5 Grendel, after all... So yall just enjoy the pipe dreams... I would get a savage in 6.5 Grendel and shoot one hole groups all day long at 100... and NEVER have to whine about magazines, or damaged brass. Sorry to toss in a good heapin, healthy dose of REALITY to your thread. NO CRYBABIES! LOL, no problem! None of these issues will affect the Grendel though. Just ask the BGs to line up and due to it's superior penetration you can take out at least three with every shot. That will eliminate the need for hi-caps. Grendel brass doesn't dent either because it's so advanced it will just jump right out of the rifle into the loading press. The real shocker though is that the round is so uncannily accurate that it will make any 10 MOA rifle shoot into one hole every time. We finally (eventually) have an AK to strike fear into the hearts of the AR crowd. OK, maybe I exaggerated just a tad, but those problems you mentioned have been a major reason for the existence of this forum in other calibers. Another choice of bullets can't be that bad. You're right about the Savage. I had one in 223 and it was very accurate. It had a major defect though. After you shot only one shot, no matter how many times you pulled the trigger it wouldn't shoot again. Someone told me you had to manually eject the spent shell and then actually feed another one in before it would work again. I didn't believe them because that's just silly. All kidding aside, I'll bet you ten bucks that production will be confirmed within a year. If not by Saiga, then by Vepr. Wanna bet? If it doesn't happen though, I can always get one in an AR platform. I hear they're more accurate anyway. Edited November 30, 2011 by timy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DrThunder88 912 Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 (edited) And then EVERYONE will whine and bitch like little girls with their panties cinched up in their snappers because not only are there NO HIGH CAPACITY MAGAZINES for a 6.5 Grendel Saiga... Good point. I've always said that this is why the .308 Saiga is such a flop. ...but the SECOND whine will be how bad the rifle dings up the brass when people try to reload for it...because the wolf stuff just wont shoot better than a 2 or 3 inch group at a hundred yards... and EVERYONE that has one will need sub 1/4 MOA out of their rifle... because its a 6.5 Grendel, after all... Right and, as stated previously in the thread, 6.5 Grendel has NO benefits other than accuracy. So yall just enjoy the pipe dreams... I would get a savage in 6.5 Grendel and shoot one hole groups all day long at 100... and NEVER have to whine about magazines, or damaged brass. But without whiners, well-reasoned rebukes would just look like smug douchebaggery! Sorry to toss in a good heapin, healthy dose of REALITY to your thread. NO CRYBABIES! Thanks for the reality. Now I really want one. Edited November 30, 2011 by DrThunder88 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dayofruin 425 Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 I'd go for 7.62x54 or 9mm. I already buy both rounds. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
unclejake 428 Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 Wouldn't mind having one myself. The only reason I would build an AR is to have a 6.5 Grendal....coures, I need another gun like I need another hole in the head! Course, I use my wife's argument when she is talking about shoes or handbags....WHAT DOES NEED HAVE TO DO WITH ANYTHING?! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 At least its good to see everyone took my comments with the proper and intended grain of sarcasm, and humor!! Its all good... I wouldnt mind seeing one myself... would I buy one... NO, I would get an AR10 platform for THAT... but it WOULD be cool. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
timy 1,185 Posted November 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 (edited) I'd go for 7.62x54 or 9mm. I already buy both rounds. I already buy both rounds too. Fortunately I have plenty of room to stock another one. And seriously, what's the deal with 7.62x54R? Not much rimmed self loader ammo or firearms being made anymore, is there? Again, I hear that rimmed stuff has always had feeding issues and that's the reason they got away from it in the first place. I haven't really looked but isn't the 30 06 comparable performance wise? If so, wouldn't that be a better choice? I'm with you on a pistol caliber carbine but I already have a Ruger PC4. Wouldn't mind having one myself. The only reason I would build an AR is to have a 6.5 Grendal....coures, I need another gun like I need another hole in the head! Course, I use my wife's argument when she is talking about shoes or handbags....WHAT DOES NEED HAVE TO DO WITH ANYTHING?! I like your wife's logic. Mine uses it too along with "But I never buy anything that isn't on sale." Fortunately, I can turn the argument around on her when I want something. At least its good to see everyone took my comments with the proper and intended grain of sarcasm, and humor!! Its all good... I wouldnt mind seeing one myself... would I buy one... NO, I would get an AR10 platform for THAT... but it WOULD be cool. Ah, but Indy, there's no need to get an AR 10 to run the magnificent, one cartridge to replace all others, flat shooting, hard hitting, soft recoiling, superlative 6.5 Grendel! It was specifically designed to fit the AR 15 platform in the first place. Edited November 30, 2011 by timy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dayofruin 425 Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 As far as 7.62x54R goes, there are already PSL's and I think FPK's. I'm not glorifying the round or anything. I just think they would sell because of the ammo pricing and to people who already buy that ammo. Same goes for 6.5 though. Especially with the wolf manufactured ammo. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 I'd go for 7.62x54 or 9mm. I already buy both rounds. I already buy both rounds too. Fortunately I have plenty of room to stock another one. And seriously, what's the deal with 7.62x54R? Not much rimmed self loader ammo or firearms being made anymore, is there? Again, I hear that rimmed stuff has always had feeding issues and that's the reason they got away from it in the first place. I haven't really looked but isn't the 30 06 comparable performance wise? If so, wouldn't that be a better choice? I'm with you on a pistol caliber carbine but I already have a Ruger PC4. Wouldn't mind having one myself. The only reason I would build an AR is to have a 6.5 Grendal....coures, I need another gun like I need another hole in the head! Course, I use my wife's argument when she is talking about shoes or handbags....WHAT DOES NEED HAVE TO DO WITH ANYTHING?! I like your wife's logic. Mine uses it too along with "But I never buy anything that isn't on sale." Fortunately, I can turn the argument around on her when I want something. At least its good to see everyone took my comments with the proper and intended grain of sarcasm, and humor!! Its all good... I wouldnt mind seeing one myself... would I buy one... NO, I would get an AR10 platform for THAT... but it WOULD be cool. Ah, but Indy, there's no need to get an AR 10 to run the magnificent, one cartridge to replace all others, flat shooting, hard hitting, soft recoiling, superlative 6.5 Grendel! It was specifically designed to fit the AR 15 platform in the first place. OOPS.... My bad.... I was thinking 6.5 Creedmore... Yeah, the Grendel is the SHORT one... the Creedmore is the longer ( hence AR10 ) round... and in MY personal opinion... a BETTER, more VERSATILE round maintaining the 6.5 ballistics/accuracy inherent with that caliber. And a caliber I have considered adding to my collection... ( and thats kinda why I was thinking creedmore... ) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
storm6490 2,768 Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 I see the article perpetuates the outright lie that the bullet compares to the 7.62x51 nato round. I wouldn't get one because the rounds will never be cheap unless adapted by the military or commies. Neat round. About as common as my 375jdj. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
timy 1,185 Posted December 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 As far as 7.62x54R goes, there are already PSL's and I think FPK's. I'm not glorifying the round or anything. I just think they would sell because of the ammo pricing and to people who already buy that ammo. Same goes for 6.5 though. Especially with the wolf manufactured ammo. I wasn't knocking it. I just don't think rimmed ammo would cycle as well in a self loader. That's proven to be the case even in bolt guns. I see the article perpetuates the outright lie that the bullet compares to the 7.62x51 nato round. I wouldn't get one because the rounds will never be cheap unless adapted by the military or commies. Neat round. About as common as my 375jdj. You're right in that the 308 delivers more punch. I'd say accuracy and range is about even. The Grendel wins on less recoil and weight (or more rounds) to lug around. A direct comparison is difficult given two very dissimilar rounds. Did you catch the Wolf link I posted? http://www.65grendel...Wolf-Steel-Case If you don't have a problem with steel cased ammo, 6.5 is about to get a whole lot cheaper and a lot more common than your 375JDJ. There are quite a few AR guys drooling over the upcoming Wolf ammo. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Scott Kenny 144 Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 As much as I would like to stick with one set of ergonomics for 3-gun (either all AR or all AK), I think I'd end up with an AR in 6.5, not the AK. Cheap(er) ammo is *always* good, though! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
timy 1,185 Posted December 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 I wouldn't get one because the rounds will never be cheap unless adapted by the military or commies. Ran across this on "The Firearm Blog". "The AK-12 will be made available chambered in 5.45mm, 5.56mm NATO, 7.62x39mm and a new not yet named caliber. It is possible that this new caliber is the 6.5mm Grendel." Of course it's still just speculation at this point but such a move would instantly legitimize the round. It would also upset a bunch of AR guys who consider it their exclusive property. However, if the Grendel does come out in a Saiga or Vepr I wouldn't jump on it immediately. I think I'd let the price drop to reasonable levels first and see how mag issues were addressed. Feeding issues have been mentioned because of the shape of the round but as far as I know they have never materialized. I would also be interested in accuracy but have little doubt that it would more than hold it's own against 223, 5.45, and 7.62x39 Saigas. If worst comes to worst, I could always get it in my first AR platform because truthfully, the AR would be better able to utilize the inherent accuracy of the round anyway. First things first. Lets see if Wolf does bring out steel cased ammo at reasonable prices. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Joesmoe 14 Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 Wouldn't Grendel rounds work in the 7.62 mags? After all the basically use the same case. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
physicsnerd 139 Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 I believe they have different body tapers so that standard AK mags would not work. This is why AR people like the Grendel because it is a straighter case and plays nicely with the AR magwell. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 The Saiga utilizes a magazine for the .223 round... I am sure it would NO BIG DEAL to have those mags take the Grendel round... Magazine design/shape/etc... A NON ISSUE. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Joesmoe 14 Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 I looked up the dimensions for both and the cases are almost identical, I do know that they can give feeding issues in ar type straight mags and that because of the length they won't work in bake light type 7.62 magazines but I can't seem to find any body who's tried to see if they work in the steel mags. But I'm sure that if they build a Grendel ak we will find out if they would work. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HB of CJ 1,263 Posted December 3, 2011 Report Share Posted December 3, 2011 I would love to have a Saiga (another one?) in 6.5 Grendal. All they would have to do is change the barrel and perhaps retune the gas port diameter and maybe a mag change/mod. A barrel length of 18.5" would be perfect. Imagine an AK small/midsize platform with downrange performance better than a .308? Twist the barrel quick! Sounds good to me. HB of CJ (old coot...with too many Saigas) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
t165 30 Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 I think its great if the Saiga line enlarges it's choice of calibers for the American consumer. The popularity of the AR line of rifles has expanded due to the numerous calibers to be had in that platform and I would think the same would happen with Saiga's popularity. While the 6.5 Grendal would probably not interest me in the Saiga platform (unless it proves to be accurate enough to make good use of the 6.5 Grendal's ballistic potential) I would never argue with anyone who chose to purchase one.....I'll leave that for the anti-gun crowd. Now, I waited a long time for one to be had in the 7.62x54r. If VEPR can make the 7.62x54r work reliability then why can't Saiga? I have (2) converted 16' .308 Saiga firearms and would love one in 7.62x54r due to the cheaper ammunition prices. I just cannot get myself to pay the premium price for the VEPR. I'm sure a 7.62x54r Saiga would look like a semi-automatic flame thrower going off at night in a 16' inch barrel configuration. Practical? Probably not. But fun? I vote yes! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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