NoTreason4 0 Posted August 12, 2005 Report Share Posted August 12, 2005 (edited) I've only ever shot rifles and pistols. So the question is, which caliber? It seems 12 gauge is the most common. Since they are no longer listed on the EAA website, and I haven't been researching them, I'm not sure what all the tradeoffs are. A quick introduction on chokes would help. I figure the primary tradeoff is in size vs. capacity. .410 magazine probably holds more shells, but .410 is probably a smaller less flexible shell than 12 guage, right? Now I've probably said something to embarass myself... so I'll stop now. Edited September 20, 2005 by NoTreason4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BattleRifleG3 16 Posted August 12, 2005 Report Share Posted August 12, 2005 You mean Saiga Shotgun or other shotgun? If she can handle 12ga and enjoy it, that's probably the best choice. Regarding Saigas, however, the 20ga can be had much cheaper, and 10rd mags do exist for those who are compelled to have them, so if 20ga will work for her uses, then a Saiga 20 is probably the best choice of 20ga semi-auto shotgun. Other shotguns, that's another matter. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted August 13, 2005 Report Share Posted August 13, 2005 A .410 is exactly 1/3 of a 12ga. , Rounds have 1/3 the powder and 1/3 of the shot or weight of the slug. That makes an excellent HD, target, small game round - especially for women and small framed people. The wife has Saiga .410 (see .410 thread) and LOVES it. It has almost no recoil. That said a 20 ga would be better for trap or skeet. G O B Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NoTreason4 0 Posted August 13, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2005 Thanks for the feedback! Of course, it will be a saiga. The AK action is robust, and I am familier with it, that it seems that as I build a gun collection, I might as well buy only AK type firearms. I guess any pistols will have to be different, but it seems like this action is a good one to standardize on. Standarid design, training, etc. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
emclean 0 Posted August 14, 2005 Report Share Posted August 14, 2005 but why change for pistols? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted August 15, 2005 Report Share Posted August 15, 2005 Having one of each Saiga ( and two of some...) I would recommend the 20 gauge for your wife/gf... It does NOT kick very hard at all... Yes, I realize a .410 is even LESS... But the 20 gauge will be much more versatile in what you can do with it. You can still use it very accurately for small game hunting, like the .410, and use it for trap/skeet as well. I have recently joined a trap league and starting tuesday, I will be using my Saiga 20 gauge exclusively for trap shooting competition. It shoots BETTER than my mossberg 500A pump with a XXX Full turkey choke in it... I get lots of looks from the die hard trap guys... but when I can shoot a 24 out of 25 with it... they all realize that its a GOOD shooting shotgun, and give kudos where they are due... Most of the local trap league guys are NOT stuck up snooty bastards, just your "average joe" guys who like to shoot trap, and many have been doing it for decades, so when something "new" comes along, thats not "traditional" they are skeptical, but not schmucks... The 20 gauge is a lot cheaper to shoot than the .410... and will cost about the same for initial outlay... If you plan to convert them, the 20 gauge will convert as EASILY as the .410, the 223 or 7.62X39 rifles.. Very easy!!! Good luck and good shooting! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BattleRifleG3 16 Posted August 15, 2005 Report Share Posted August 15, 2005 Indy is dead on about the 20ga, and one more thing is that it's far far far better for home defense and any significant kind of hunting. I can't name any bird that CAN'T be hunted with a 20ga (not that I would, just that experts do it effectively.) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AegisDei 2 Posted August 15, 2005 Report Share Posted August 15, 2005 I throw my vote in for the 20Ga. I'm looking for one myself so that I can get my female friends into the sport too. I've had two gals shoot the 12ga and one turn and run before even shouldering it. Only one of them can effectively handle it. It's a heavier gun, with a bit more kick. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the 20ga I believe weighs less, thus easier to shoulder, and has much less kick. The .410 is really too small IMO for novices to use effectively for hunting or skeet. The 20ga will spray a lot more lead, which will make the sport eaiser to learn, and once learned then I believe a .410 would be adequate. But starting out with a .410 I feel would be frustrating and maybe discouraging. Especially for home defense, I'd suggest the 20ga. Remember, a .410 is the same as a pistol caliber...it may spread a little, and it may be moving 400fps faster, but I'd pick up .40cal pistol which is more maneuverable than a shotgun before I'd pick up a .410. Also, you'd have to talk to someone with more expertise than I, but I don't think chokes would be too viable with a .410, thus making it less versatile. My vote goes with 20ga, and let me know if in your search you find an extra one because I want it! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
emclean 0 Posted August 15, 2005 Report Share Posted August 15, 2005 there is little to no diffrance in the s-12and s-20 weight Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AegisDei 2 Posted August 15, 2005 Report Share Posted August 15, 2005 I'd listen to EMCLEAN...I don't own the S20 (yet), but I figured it'd have a lighter barrel since it's firing lesser loads. However, I have no idea how much difference this would make in weight, but apparently not much. However, the kick will still be more manageable, so definately S20. Thanks EMCLEAN! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted August 15, 2005 Report Share Posted August 15, 2005 that similar weight difference is also what helps to reduce recoil in the 20... lighter loads, same inertial starting mass... LESS RECOIL... simple as that... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NoTreason4 0 Posted September 20, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2005 Thanks for all the advice. Looks like its either a 12ga or 20ga. Probably will depend on what comes on the market, and whether me "but that's not a rifle" comments are pursuasive or not. Yeah, I'd love an AK pistol, but they are way expensive to buy, and I'm not ready to build one yet. (And I guess I won't, as parts aren't being imported anymore.) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Krinkovliu 0 Posted September 20, 2005 Report Share Posted September 20, 2005 If you plan on using the shotgun for home defense, among other purposes, famed gun writer and policeman Mossad Ayoub has the following to say from his book Stress Fire (from memory): A 20 gauge shotgun loaded with #3 buckshot has about 1/2 the felt recoil of a 12 gauge shotgun loaded with #4 buckshot. The 20 has about 3/4ths the payload of a 12. He feels that this is an excellent trade off in that the 20 gauge shooter can get the second shot off, in required, faster than shooting the second shell from a 12. I have a pistol grip Benelli Super 90 in 12 gauge and an unmodified Saiga 20 at home. Guess which one is in the gun safe and which one is my bedroom? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ivrfrkbrd 0 Posted September 20, 2005 Report Share Posted September 20, 2005 I agree with those who suggest the .20 guage. And the dimensions of the Saiga stock seem to be much better for females than other models. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NoTreason4 0 Posted October 31, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 So, its unanimous. Now we just need to see Saiga-20s on the market! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 I think a saw a few on Gunbroker last night... for REASONABLE PRICES too... always keep checking, they seem to pop out there once in a while, at random intervals... Good luck... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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