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12ga, 10ga, 8ga, 4ga FH; 585HE / 700HE; Other Big Bores


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#91 hubel458

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Posted 09 November 2015 - 08:48 PM

Here we kill two birds with one stone so to speak,
 
Best case sizer is the MEC Collet Super Sizer and it can double
as a case holder when we roll crimp. Much better hold than
the ones made to hold cases for crimping, that cost a lot.
Save cost of a holder, plus have best sizer around
 
mecrimp.jpg
 
Here is couple different setups our guys checking for our 585HE
in a long, Lawton Cheytac action. First  laminated  thumbhole stock.
Second in a Hogue Compstock. The action can mount a scope rail
like shown on the table in 1st picture or a receiver sight in 2nd picture.
The scope rail is a piccatiny type.
 
lawtonthumb.jpg
 
lawtonhogue.jpg
 
The stocks used were wide ones for REM long actions, just add recoil
block ahead of recoil inleting  for the longer action, drill new screw hole
Open the stock forward to original bolt hole for longer cases and mag.
 
About Enfields for our case, one of my favorites, Some don't like the
sporterizing, welding  bottom metal straight. Many think straightening
is a huge job needing special jigs. Easier just use one being added on for a jig
with a bolt, to weld on the straight extension, Do top weld, then cut old
extension that is under off with a thin cutting wheel, then weld bottom.
When we bolt the short piece on the one we are straightening, we grind
the short slant off so the added piece lays on there flat.
The one you cut off can be used as the top extension for the next one!!!
Just keep on building...Ed
 
guardlen.jpg
 


#92 hubel458

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Posted 10 December 2015 - 04:54 AM

Here is a fancy stocked 24ga FH built on a NEF, built by
a guy in Canada.  Its straight back,  high comb
stock, handles recoil great.Neat looking work... Ed
 
brian24.jpg
 
 
About our 2.17"  585 BB  case for lever guns, pistols, etc,.
It is made from our 585 case cut back to 2.17" long.
With loaded length of about 2.8" work in lever guns, etc.
Work in 71s, later 1886s, Henry steel frames made for 45-70.
One guy is putting one in single shot action set up with
Contender style pistol grip for testing in long rifle barrel,
to simulate pistol  recoil..Be very brisk recoil in a case
that holds 110 gr powder under a light Minie bullet. 
Maybe work in a Rossi Judge with heavy barrel.
Or rolling block rifles and  pistols...Gonna try one  in 1887.
Got first one in one of our guys Greener GP for testing..
AND LATER DO ONE IN A SAIGA
 
In some ways big bore shotguns and rifles are sexy.
By looking at the shape of the fire and smoke cloud....
Thanks for picture, to the great NitroExpress Forums site. 
 
 
Mickyboob.jpg
 
Here is picture of another neat sporterizing deal for Enfields.
On those without rear bridge pocket welded up, we just mill down
and shape it so  debth of the pocket matches bottom section of
weaver rail and screw or epoxy it in. Shape to drive in hole tight.
Can use as a rear scope ring mount or mount for peep sight
like a compact UTG sight...Ed
 
enfieldsight.jpg


#93 hubel458

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Posted 24 January 2016 - 04:18 PM

A poster reading our threads said '' I'm slowly becoming a recoilapheliac''..

That is neat term , and very glad  that folks are catching the big bore fever.
 
Here is a simple, yet neat peep sight we can use on the rear sporterized
bridges of Enfields, works on other rear bridges also.Including shotguns.
 I like peep sights the best for most shooting. They also come with flat 
bottoms also for bridges and receivers that are flat on top.
 
2wgrs.jpg
 
Another picture of the 585 HE one of our guys  put in the MPI stock..
 
biebs.jpg
 
Here is another pic of our guys 24ga FH in the NEF
 
brian24-2.jpg
 
 
On straight sided cases  like our 585 HE the die set has a mouth expander
die to make it easy to insert bullets. The die flares the mouth, but I always
felt that doing what is really a relative relatively sharp flare, and then the slight
roll crimping the same area of the case into a groove on the
bullet or slug, shortens case life.
 
So I just use expander plug out of the die, by hand, using just the bottom of
of the expander plug and just push it in a little, wobble it around a small 
amount, bullet goes in ok, case mouths last longer, good for dozens of loads, 
with moderate hunting and target loads.Only takes a few seconds and less
work that has to be done in the press ... Ed
 
mouthex.jpg


#94 hubel458

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Posted 12 February 2016 - 03:01 AM

Here is picture of a hard plastic molded shotgun case, holding
a slug, without crimping, a company is experimenting with.
This one with light slug supposed to do over 2000 fps.
 
shrifle.jpg
 
 
Here is  video by Corlanes Sporting,  Dawson Creek, BC, CAN. 
Known as,  Rocky Mtn Rifles,  video on Youtube of them testing our
585 HE in a barreled action, they are building for a guy. They are
shooting it into their big bullet trap with test load..
 
 
 Allan and Grant Swan in Australia are building 585HE for a guy,
the second they built. First one killed the buff pictured earlier .
AHR and Vestals will make folks here in US a 585 HE.
Here is another view of a Lawton action big enough for  585HE.. 
 
lawton35.jpg
 
 
Here is picture of Rossi SS with 585 barrel mono-blocked  into it,
chambered for our 585 BB  2.17" case, to do testing in a light rifle
with just pistol grip to simulate the case in pistols. Others going to
put case in leverguns,  autoloaders. We got plenty of cases Ed
 
rossi585bb.jpg


#95 hubel458

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Posted 16 March 2016 - 07:25 PM

Here is picture of a great old time 8bore double.
I like those old outside hammer    guns.Ed

Edited by hubel458, 16 March 2016 - 07:32 PM.


#96 hubel458

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Posted 16 March 2016 - 07:30 PM

Here is picture of a great old time 8bore double.
I like those old outside hammer, big bore guns.
 
2-8bore.jpg
 
The style of most break actions singles aren't the greatest,  that we
we used for 12ga FH, 10ga FH, other caliber barrels we mono-blocked
in them like .585" bore for 585HE  and  24ga FH.. One that is close
that we have, is the Magtech.
 
 Well the guys have  found one that is super strong lockup and  looks 
real nice. And has the good quality look. It comes 12ga light shot barrel, 
soon  be monoblocked to rifled 24ga FH,  the little brother of the 585HE.
 
We told company if they did them with NEF style, rifled, heavy slug barrel,
for shotgun caliber only hunters, they couldn't make them fast enough.
 
perfect12.jpg
 
 
Here is picture of 585HE, In an Enfield that  Bret and Darrel in Minn
set up with great camo finish, with nice brake job.. Ed
 
camo-en.jpg
 
Here is picture from the rear of the Enfield we mounted the short Weaver
rail piece on. It is mounted in the sight pocket that the actions have;
Can hold scope ring or a rear peep sight like UTG makes.. Ed
 
enbackwea.jpg


#97 hubel458

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Posted 13 April 2016 - 10:36 PM

We will have arrived when we have this big bore in our back yard,
Kind of a neat suppressor,
 
bigsuppressor.jpg
 
 
Here is folder shotgun guys set up as 24ga FH.
 
companion24.jpg
 
 
Here is another  view of what we feel is a nearly perfect 
break action. Guy is making a strong 24ga FH with it.
 
perfect12open.jpg
 
 
Here is picture of a  585HE  MRC PH a guy set up..
 
coyote2.jpg
 
 
Here is picture of our shorter 585 BB for leverguns, etc, 
 with a variety of bullets..Ed
 
585bbloads.jpg
 


#98 GunFun

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Posted 15 April 2016 - 12:06 AM

Those shotgun slugs for normal hulls and components around post 62 actually look interesting to me.



#99 hubel458

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Posted 16 April 2016 - 09:58 PM

We have a different guy who is getting the 12ga sabots made.

 

I'll post info when he is ready with them.  ...Ed



#100 hubel458

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Posted 11 May 2016 - 02:52 PM

Here is a Midland break action a guy is doing in 24ga FH.
 
midland24.jpg
 
Here is old  catalog picture of different stuff used in old days
for shotgun loads. Some would be hairy in brass cases
 
ballshot.jpg
 
Here is picture of a MN  a guy is  doing 585HE in..
It is singleshot. Redid  bolt handle mounted it on the bolt 
further bac, so the port could be lengthened  for our long case.
Needs polishing and blueing, scope rail added.
 
585mosin.jpg
 
Here is another picture of the 585HE with great looking stock.
Nice looking wood. Ed
 
coyote.jpg

Edited by hubel458, 11 May 2016 - 04:10 PM.


#101 hubel458

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Posted 18 June 2016 - 11:30 PM

There are guys on Castboolits forum experimenting with
locking on plastic bases securely on slugs.
Making their own front heavy ones for smoothbores.
 
Here is picture of our 585BB case next to long 585HE.
 
585bb.jpg
 
 
Here  is another view of  the great camo job on the 
585HE Enfield,  a top view.  Ed
 
camo-en2.jpg


#102 hubel458

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Posted 22 July 2016 - 08:11 PM

Here is a helix driver seal we made by cutting base from helix driver
 
wadcup, good for fullbore roundballs that are too big to go in cup.
 
Best one to cut off is shortest `12ga  one BPI has.
 
 
helixseal.jpg
 
 
 
Here is picture of a 585HE made on a Stiller bolt action for guy in Canada.
 
It was made for the poster Spooksar on Africa Hunting and Accuratereloading, 
 
by Corlanes/Rocky Mountain rifles, in Dawson Creek BC Canada, with a 
 
Stiller action, Timney trigger. the stock is a blue/grey laminate. He imported 
 
the barrel, cases, dies, etc.. from us,  through Prophet River in Lloydminster AB. 
 
 
spooksar.jpg
 
 
 
That action similar to  Lawton we had and neighbor got,  that won the King Of The
 
2 Mile shoot at Whittington,  with the 375 Lethal cartridge the neighbor made,
 
 from our 585 brass. Made it full length case,.. It is big one on the right. 
 
He made an 18 lb gun with McMillan target stock, a huge scope, tripod..
 
Nice thing is we don't need BMG action.
 
 
375lethal.jpg
 
 
 
Here is picture of a case a Trex owner made using our 585 brass, by putting
 
a piece of 11/16 tubing ,cut a piece 2/10 of an inch long with a tube cutter chamfered 
 
the cut side a bit  and tapped it on  the case down to the belt with the brass pipe 
 
and fireformed  it in the T Rex chamber.......Made a  perfect fitting case.  
 
Cut  our brass to 3" to fit shorter trex specs. He was out of brass
 
and couldn't find more, so he invented his own. Our rim still big
 
enough so the extractor on his gun worked ok.Ed. 
 
 
herex.jpg

Edited by hubel458, 22 July 2016 - 08:14 PM.


#103 hubel458

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 01:53 AM

 
We have heard that  fellow big bore nut, Nathan Vale in AUS, is working
 
with  Bertram in making a run of the full length  12ga From Hell cases.
 
 Drawn 12ga long cases as strong as BMG brass with unbreakable rims. 
 
Any wanting to get some, and get in on the run,  contact Bertram
 
at the email -----    b.bertram1@bigpond.com    ...... 
 
 
 
 
 
Some more on wildcat 375 Lethal.......
 
 .375 Lethal Precision Arms LLC rifle shooting prototype solid 400gr Berger bullets. 
 
Mitchell built this rifle himself using a McMillan A5 Super Mag stock, Rock Creek barrel,
 
 Nightforce ATACR MOA scope, Phoenix Precision Bipod, and a Lethal Precision Arms
 
 muzzle brake. Lawton  Action. Lethal Precision  his own  gunsmith  shop,  will make
 
these target rifles for anyone into target shooting and long range hunting..
 
 
Remarkably, Mitchell nailed first- and second- shot hits at the 2477-yard target, 
 
a full 1.4 miles away. It is windy out there, makes shooting hard with a time limit.
 
The prototype 400 grain Berger Bullets solid was superb, (G7 BC of 0.56 at 3000 fps). 
 
 
 
mitch3.jpg 
 
 
Here is  585 HE in an Enfield, in a Choate Heavy  Varmint Stock. These are super strong.
 
The  butts of these can easily be weighted.  Couple guys doing them.......  Ed
 
 
enchoate.jpg 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


#104 hubel458

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Posted 02 October 2016 - 02:53 AM

Here is a picture of the 12ga FH brass case that Nathan 
 
Vale had Bertrams make. Next to short plastic case.
 
12gavale.jpg
 
 
Here is a picture of our 585BB headstamp. Perfect lettering
 
for our case as it came from production line,.
 
585bbstamp.jpg
 
 
 I like Hogue stocks,  but they aren't made for singleshots.
 
We use singleshots for our 12ga FH and  585HE.
 
Here is picture of a NEF we set up for 24ga FH and we adapted
 
a Hogue  1300 Winchester Hogue to it. Looks a lot better, and 
 
handles recoil easier than factory, Butt hollow, easy to add weight,
 
 
buttnef.jpg


#105 hubel458

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Posted 06 January 2017 - 07:18 PM

Our friend Brian from the far north went to Africa with his 24ga FH he did in
a NEF break action and got 3 nice buffs with it. Good job.
 
 
Our 585HE, 700HE and the great 12ga FH are now in the new COTW book
published  in Oct, now out for sale,
 
cotw585.jpg
 
 
We now have our target 375 HE cartridge, made  by necking down our 585 HE.
The others couldn't make enough 375s, so we started our own. It has different 
shoulder taper, length, neck length, improved over the others...Got a bunch
guys doing it, most into the 2 mile shooting venues, We're making cases,
testing, reamer prints at reamer guys, we are getting guys going. The 2 mile
shoot last year really got the interest booming for  375 necked from our case,
 
Here's how, size and seat 375 HE, one simple die, a 1" die, no huge dies needed 
A die we can make with resize reamer from reamer guy, a regular die body,then
 pass on to the next guy, one reamer can make whole bunch of dies for folks.
 
I do primer work separate, not in the press. SO First with lock ring set, I size cases.
 
When coming back out of dies with case, we notice the case still well centered,
 held straight, when it is down as far as the length of the 375 HE neck... IE
the sides and shoulder corner still supported tight.
 
So we put washer or another lock ring on, same thickness as neck length,
below original lock ring, screw down tight tight in press,
 
Dies had a 5/8 x 24 thread in top, had powder fill bushing and other stuff  same thread,
 reamed out from bottom to set bullet height, with ram, case,and bullet up,
 
After priming, loading in the powder charge, we  carefully start(boat tail makes it easy) 
 bullet in case by hand, slide up in die, into holder, raise ram to to top, bullet seated
 perfect. Die can have different thread in top as long as big enough to hold seating 
bushing of some kind , that can be made from many items.
 
These target bullets held in by strong neck tension, no crimping needed, and notice 
bullet point will get no marks or dents, fast, easy, no 380-500 buck special  dies. 
Bushing centering bullet on ogive is very accurate.
 
OVER 900 375HE  cases piled behind presses getting done. About 600 on another 
 bench nearly ready. Small batches in shelves.And we will do more. 
 
All 375 info, prints, specs, pictures, load data, etc, is public domain, worldwide,
for any target, hunting, etc, use..Ed
 
 
boattailseat.jpg


#106 hubel458

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Posted 01 February 2017 - 11:46 AM

Here is picture of  one of 3 buffs our guy from Canada got in
 
Africa with  our 24ga FH he did on a NEF,  in 2nd picture
 
 
brianbuff.jpg
 
 
briangun.jpg
 
 
Here is the neck die setup, with insert stems/plugs for the top that
 
are set in .020" steps to make our 375 HEs shown behind
 
from our 585HE cases. 900 cases behind and 600  on
 
another bench, mostly done, and 600 started elsewhere, 
 
We  also made a hydraulic form die, 375 HE test gun, starting with
 
lighter bullets, for example got 340 gr to 3700, 
 
Will test up to 400gr We will find top speeds and powders needed
 
to get that, and have info where to get powders.  Reamer prints are
 
at reamer guys, all prints and info is public domain... Ed
 
necking375.jpg


#107 hubel458

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 03:46 AM

Picture of fellows at Vestals Gunsmithing test firing  585 HE
 
they built for a guy. They got 750 gr to almost 2800 from
 
ultra short barrel, not a full load . A regular barrel  would be
 
 over  2900,  14000 ft lbs with full load..
 
585blast.jpg 
 
 
 
Picture of our 375 HE cases, with little 378 WEA on left.
 
Middle case is with 330 gr, right case is  400gr bullet.
 
375hecases.jpg 
 
 
Here is picture of out 375HE testgun, in heavy t-hole stock.
 
So far 340 gr to 3700 and 360gr 3600.
 
testgun.jpg 
 
 
Next 416 HE target case, these run through the hydro-die, 
 
test gun done,will complete testing soon, to confirm specs. 
 
When specs set, info will be sent to reamer guys
 
Soon will have  408 HE with specs set up also, for guys,
 
Smaller case 416s and 408s can be reamed out for
 
our  bigger case .Ed
 
416he.jpg 
 


#108 hubel458

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 03:03 AM

Here is picture of a brake on 12ga FH with real hot loaded
hollowbase lead slug, brake needed more clearance
for  the expanding slug.
 
bbrake.jpg
 
 
Here is the  before and after of  375 HE cases    
necked, 2 on left, and then formed in hydro die... Ed
 
beforehydroafter.jpg
 
 
Here is pic of 416 HSM second from left we are experimenting
with, going to see if we can make the ultimate 416 ELR case.
Can be 3.60" to 4.00" long, a long one pictured.
Holds over  280 gr ball powder under bullet. The
 3.6" case can hold about 250gr under bullet.. In picture,
1st case is 416 HE, 2nd 416 HSM, 3rd 375 He, 4th 378 WEA.
 
416 HSM will get 400gr to 4100 plus without needing BMG action,
470 gr 3800 plus , it may be the ultimate target, singleshot 416..
Case will work in fat bolt actions, with heavy enough barrel
to have good, milder, barrel harmonics and be under 50 lbs.
A lot of the 2 mile type shoots are adopting 50lb limit. 
 
416hsm.jpg
 
Here is picture of  the 416 HSM fireformed once, 
next to bmg case we make it from and as we 
improve wildcatting process next few weeks 
some specs may make small changes, now from 
base to shoulder is 3.45", case 3.97" long. Ed..
 
 
hsmbmg.jpg
 
 
Manson has 416 HE and 408 HE prints, as well as 375 HE
He can also make you a resize die reamer from that info.
We got 700 cases in 416 and one more pass if 408s wanted, , 
Going to do lot more cases for these 2 sizes,
PM or email. ph 989-644-5228.. 
 
Here are final specs for 416 HE.
Length 3.32",  belt diameter  ,655",  base dia  .635" , 
length base to to shoulder 2.860" , 30 deg shoulder.Ed


#109 hubel458

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Posted 25 June 2017 - 07:24 PM

Guys asking about strong economical bolt gun to use for  28ga and
410 ga and  32ga with brass cases and higher pressures than plastic cases.
They can use a MN bolt action, here is pic of one with
our 585 case in the action.Guys can get  Magtech brass cases or have
 RMC make them....Guys can make 32ga case from 500 NE,
410s from 9.3 x 74 brass, etc..
 
585mosin2.jpg
 
Here is picture of our 416 HSM case sectioned next to original
BMG case on the right sectioned, to show that we still have
enough thickness in the sides to handle  high pressure,
in a case with 310 gr capacity..We are getting the wildcatting 
work set up so we can do at least hundred a month.
We have lots of 585s,  375HEs,  416 HEs,  408 HEs.....
And working toward getting 416 HSMs in big numbers.
 
hsmsect.jpg
 
Here's comparison of  416 target cases, 1st  416 HE,  have whole bunch. 
Second is model of what I'd have made  on  medium machine, if I could,  
the 416 HE Long. It has capacity of  230gr.. 
Third is our 416 HSM which we are working on making by wildcatting bmg
cases, And if  had run long cases, make longer 375 HE necking down 416 .. 
 
416heexp.jpg
 
 
Bryan Litz just recently shot 3 shot group at 2 miles using Paul
 Phillips heavy barreled, target rifle built by Lethal Precision in  
375 Lethal Mag(585HE necked down, very  similiar to 375HE )...
 It grouped 17.5 inches tall by 22 inches wide. 
 
Applied Ballistics shooter Mitch Fitzpatrick just hit 3 of 5 at 3520 yards,
 weekend 10-13th  at Valdina Ranch , west of San Antonio.
Also used the 375 LM case similar to our 375 HE
Great shooting at the 2017 World's Longest Shot Challenge. Ed


#110 saltydecimator

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Posted 08 July 2017 - 11:21 AM

thanks for postung pics!!! i looooooove crazy projects!!!


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am the gun lobby you treasonous slime!!!!

 

 
 

#111 hubel458

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Posted 24 July 2017 - 01:23 AM

The 12ga FH case  now is in the new COTW book on
last  page in the wildcat section, I think page 324.
They gave good credit to Rob for the idea of that   case....
 
 
The model 416 HE long case in middle, hydro formed one,
 
has case capacity of 240 gr, and the 416 HSM in picture,
 
on the right, we fired a case twice, capacity is 320gr.. Ed..
 
416heexp.jpg
 
 
More info out now;  short, fat cases sticking, pockets not lasting as expected.
Trying to get best speeds the things raising pressures are bad case
 proportions, too sharp of shoulders, too fast of powders...........
 and  debth of  the bullet into the powder space, as shown in the picture  below..
My 375, 416, etc testing, bullets loaded like bottom one, in longer freebore....Ed.
 
416inout.jpg


#112 hubel458

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Posted 04 September 2017 - 02:34 AM

Here is case measurements for our 416 HE target case
made from our 585 HE big belted case. Ed
 
416heprint.jpg
 
 
Here is picture of 375 HE left,  416 HE next,  416 HSM right..
 
pat1.jpg
 
 
Here, tentative specs,  416 HSM case we are doing from bmg brass,
 
416hsmpic.jpg
 
 
 
A  375  HE,  with Lawton action, bunch being done with those .....
 
lawton375.jpg
 


#113 hubel458

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 05:07 PM

A 585 HE ...shot  with moderate heavy load......
 
 
 
Here is a 375 HE target gun  set up, by Asteroid Precision...
 
375hehotrod.jpg
 
 
Here is video of it being tested... And with a 350gr bullet about 3450-3475,
 
bolt opened easily with one finger...And he's  just getting started
 
and is checking on  better powder, Ed..
 
 
 


#114 patriot

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 05:19 PM

Check these guys out for surplus powders. Some are VERY slow. It may be what you're looking for.

 

http://surpluspowder.../gunpowder.html


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#115 hubel458

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Posted 10 November 2017 - 04:09 PM

Here is recap simple setup  to get faster loads with 12ga sabots

 
& slugs, Example using break actions...., reaming  chamber
 
 in a 12ga break action to 3.5" with a 3.5"  12ga reamer, that isn't
 
 something needing special order, and use 3.5" plastic cases , or
 
get 3.5"  brass cases made. With mag shotgun primers and
 
our slower powder loads you can get a  quarter more speed,
 
which gives 50% more eneregy...
 
 
585 Hubel Express  video, 190ft/lbs recoil, heavy  load,  gun little light.....
 
 
 
Another view of  Asteroid Precision's.... 375 HE target gun,
 
375hehotrod2.jpg  
 
 
Here is our  416 HSM we are developing next to 416 Barrett, Ed
 
hsmbarrett.jpg  


#116 patriot

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Posted 10 November 2017 - 04:21 PM

That looks PAINFUL!

 

Brake that thing before you break something.


Fighting for your rights whether you deserve them or not. Pro Patria Vigilans
"The strength of the Constitution lies entirely in the determination of each citizen to defend it. Only if every single citizen feels duty bound to do his share in this defense are constitutional rights secure." Albert Einstein ...remember the Four BoxesJames 1:25
Tromix.....The best Saiga 12 you could buy. 





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