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It is import laws, not Toyota, dictating the sales of the Diesel Hilux. If you want say a diesel 4runner, you can get them in canada, but the U.S. will not let you. Why? Detriot! American cars are bragging about 35-40 mpg now as if they just invented fire! while a 1982 Hona civic got 55mpg....about 30 freakin years ago!!!!

Watch the British Top Gear, they drive new deisel cars that get plenty better than 55mpg!!

Don't blame Detroit for that. Blame the green energy hippies choking the engines with emmisions equipment. The Government has been shoving regulations down the throats of the Motor City for YEARS.

 

Its a amazing tribute to preseverance that we still have air cooled bikes still. Engines that shut a cylender off at idle, cats, hush quiet mufflers, and a 6th gear that the bike can't pull up a hill without aftermarket work... WHY? Emmision standards.

 

Even Diesels have to have the things on there choking the exhaust now.

 

Do you think all the airbags, crumple zones, smog pumps, and whatever else bullshit we stick on them helps anything?

 

Cars today are made of more plastic, thinner sheetmetal, and STILL weigh more.

 

A 69 Camaro SS with a Big block 396 and a soft top(weighed more) only came in at 3,790lbs.

 

A 2012 camaro hard top with a aluminum block still weighs 3849lbs!

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does this count? lol

Back to vehicles and accessories. I forgot to mention a Hilift jack. You can lift, pull, spread, and clamp with them. Great for trail fixes. I've seen someone use the handle to trail fix a busted

I have always liked 4x4 vans that I see. Seems like a cool spacious rig, but as with my 4runner, if it's inside the truck, " it will eventually hit your head" as we say when going off-road, so maybe a

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I'll play silly rambo fantasy too.

 

Come on now. If we're all paranoid enough to own (multiple) AKs we may as well commit ourselves wholeheartedly to our paranoid fantasies. If nothing else, it's a good excuse to buy toys. Maybe our paranoia will come in handy someday.

 

Good choice on the pickup by the way.

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been there and done that... my answer is a 1995 toyota landcruiser petro with factory lockers. this plane jane easy to blend in SUV has straight axles and a straight 6 that will plow thru parked cars and other misc obstacles. It is nimble and powerful. the one I hammered on was more like a snowmobile with the awd system. zero maintenance no problems at all under terrible abuse. put in gas and oil and go. even got hit by a 3500 diesel with a buckstop bumper and a trailer in tow. one dent to the rear panel that was hammered out. amazing... super bright lights, wide stance, even safe HP, thick steel. ... the best year for LCZ ever in my opinion. Only thing better would be a manual transmission offering.

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I'll play silly rambo fantasy too.

 

I would vote for the vehicle driven by most of the world. Incidentally it is also pretty much the vehicle of choice in most of the world where everything has gone to anarchic chaos.

 

Four door Toyota Hilux with the tiny diesel and 4x4. It just works. Parts are everywhere (except USA) they are everywhere. People drive them in countries were a gallon of diesel is about how much they earn in two days. Granted they take a lot of passengers, but that speaks toward economy and durability. these people can't afford to replace parts and their trucks keep going. Toyota makes a puffy cush version that is a lot like the Tundra. I am not talking about that, I am talking about the little thing that doesn't pretend it isn't made out of sheet metal and still has buckles on the tailgate. A lot of them come with a cheezy headache rack with hand grips for the passengers who will obviously be standing up in the back.

 

When you picture a bunch of desperate guys in some war torn part of the world, odds are he wil be carrying an AK and he will be in the back of the vehicle equivalent. There's a reason.

 

My next pick would probably be a subaru for where I live. I really don't understand why Toyota doesn't sell diesels in USA. My family alone would justify importation.

I'll give you a big plus one on the Hilux. We used them in Iraq and Afghanistan for non-tactical vehicles and they are awesome trucks. Look up when Top Gear tried to kill one. We also had some Toyota SUVs that were oil burners, same thing, good trucks. The ANA are using Ford Rangers which more resemble an old Toyota or Chevy Luv with four doors than an American version. They are diesel burners as well and seem to be along the same lines as the Hilux. Too bad emmission laws prevent these trucks being imported. Thanks Cali, fuckers! Europe is allowed to get JK Wranglers with diesels, not us!

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Cars today are made of more plastic, thinner sheetmetal, and STILL weigh more.

 

A 69 Camaro SS with a Big block 396 and a soft top(weighed more) only came in at 3,790lbs.

 

A 2012 camaro hard top with a aluminum block still weighs 3849lbs!

Yes, my new SS is a bigger car dimensionally, has waaaay more stock horsepower, and the technology built into the drivetrain will make it hook up, shit and get in a hurry. Top speed on these new Gen 5s makes even the fastest Camaro in the sixties look silly. I had a 396 in one that was a drag motor bored over, better cam, bigger carburation, bigger exhaust, etc. and I still don't think it would touch my new, stock for now, 2SS/RS. Old Camaros handle like shit even though they look cool. ETA: If I can stay off the right pedal and set the cruise to 65, it'll get 25 MPG as well. I may have more plastic than a 69', but my tires are twice the size as those skinny bias ply tires they came with back in the day.

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I am not sure the hilux deisel ban is an issue with emmisions. We ARE allowed to import them, but not until they are at least 15 years old, so if you go to canada you can bring back a Toyo hilux deisel OLDER than 1996. That just sounds more like preventing competition than emmisions laws, but I am no expert by any definition of the word. It may very well just be Granola Hippie laws, but that seems backwards to allow an older (Non-competitive in new car market, with typically worse emissions) to be imported, but not a new model.

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I am not sure the hilux deisel ban is an issue with emmisions. We ARE allowed to import them, but not until they are at least 15 years old, so if you go to canada you can bring back a Toyo hilux deisel OLDER than 1996. That just sounds more like preventing competition than emmisions laws, but I am no expert by any definition of the word. It may very well just be Granola Hippie laws, but that seems backwards to allow an older (Non-competitive in new car market, with typically worse emissions) to be imported, but not a new model.

In the Jeep world regarding diesels, it's not a competition thing, it is an emmissions thing. The rest of the world has new JKs, Grand Cherokees, etc. with oil burners. We had a Liberty that sold for like one year with a diesel, then they were not allowed to make them for sale in the states anymore. Most of the older vehicles that cannot be imported into the States comes here from Canada through private sales which isn't really regulated. I looked into bringing back some vehicles from Germany when I was still Military and there were lots of constraints regarding safety items as well as emissions. There are Euro spec vehicles and ones sold through certain dealers over there that meet U.S. specs over there.

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Actually, I keep 2 in the stable just for simplicity.

 

1981 Toyota Pickup, 22R/2bbl progressive, 5 speed 2WD, solid rear axle, 3/4T rear springs installed. I swapped the coil out to a regular "tower can", and can run the truck with one jumper wire if the spark controller gets fried. Downside is, I have to remove the wire to shut it off. I've seen this truck go where Jeeps fear to tread around here......in winter.

 

1979 Ford Ranchero GT, 302/2bbl, AOD trans, 2.75 LSD, 3/4T coil springs under the rear. Again, one wire from coil to battery, and back running. I have an old 289 P/C distributor and adapter harness in the tool box for EMP. 10 minutes, and I'm back on the road. Not a winter road friendly vehicle, but I can dig it. If my gear is back there, it will stay planted.

 

Just remember......it's the man, not the machine.

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When I first saw the topic, I was figuring people would start posting M1 Abrams category pics and stuff basically unobtainable, they did. Is the OP is looking for a daily driver that is capable in a SHTF scenerio or a dedicated SHTF rig kept hidden in the barn for that purpose? (M-35s are the shit but hardly a daily driver). I guess it all depends on your primary terrain and whether or not you plan to go off pavement with it. If I want to go somewhere fast on pavement, I have that covered, but if the road is plugged up like a hurricane evac, I'm fucked with the SS and sitting in traffic as opposed to being able to leave pavement with my Jeep. Lots of variables, lots of vehicle solutions for those variables. I could post pics of uber-tactical cool guy vehicles all day long, but if you cannot buy them, it's kind of pointless.

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1981 Toyota Pickup, 22R/2bbl progressive, 5 speed 2WD, solid rear axle, 3/4T rear springs installed. I swapped the coil out to a regular "tower can", and can run the truck with one jumper wire if the spark controller gets fried. Downside is, I have to remove the wire to shut it off. I've seen this truck go where Jeeps fear to tread around here......in winter.

How could you possibly get any axle articulation from a 2wd Toyota with 3/4 ton springs and go where Jeeps fear to tread? Is your only drive axle locked? Even so, I still don't see it. I'll be up next hunting season with my JK and you have a challenge depending on where you are at in MT.

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I have always liked 4x4 vans that I see. Seems like a cool spacious rig, but as with my 4runner, if it's inside the truck, " it will eventually hit your head" as we say when going off-road, so maybe a Pick-up with a topper?? I had a Van once and did like the "Live-in-ability" of them.

Although, my 4runner is not bad as it is.

post-16191-0-95640900-1323400461_thumb.jpg

post-16191-0-52893300-1323400477_thumb.jpg

Edited by RobRez
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All seriousness aside gotta love the case of PBR along side all those rifles.... lol

Yeah, mandatory building supplies!!! This winter I am making the external cage and pop-off windshield protection!! So far I can rack-up 13 guns in my 4runner, aiming to hit 18 guns, possibly 20 if I get the 2 Dracos I have been fantasizing about.

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Yes, my new SS is a bigger car dimensionally, has waaaay more stock horsepower, and the technology built into the drivetrain will make it hook up, shit and get in a hurry. Top speed on these new Gen 5s makes even the fastest Camaro in the sixties look silly. I had a 396 in one that was a drag motor bored over, better cam, bigger carburation, bigger exhaust, etc. and I still don't think it would touch my new, stock for now, 2SS/RS. Old Camaros handle like shit even though they look cool. ETA: If I can stay off the right pedal and set the cruise to 65, it'll get 25 MPG as well. I may have more plastic than a 69', but my tires are twice the size as those skinny bias ply tires they came with back in the day.

Not ragging on your car, there are pros and cons to everything. I simply prefer simple and basic myself.

 

I am not sure the hilux deisel ban is an issue with emmisions. We ARE allowed to import them, but not until they are at least 15 years old, so if you go to canada you can bring back a Toyo hilux deisel OLDER than 1996. That just sounds more like preventing competition than emmisions laws, but I am no expert by any definition of the word. It may very well just be Granola Hippie laws, but that seems backwards to allow an older (Non-competitive in new car market, with typically worse emissions) to be imported, but not a new model.

What your describing is a 15 year emissions exemption. After a certain age you don't have to worry no more.

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Well hell, if rob is pulling out pics of his I'll jump.

 

1985 M1009 CUCV. 6.2L Detroit diesel, TH400/NP208 3/4 ton springs 4" spring lift, 10b/14b conversion. currently sitting on 33" Cooper rubber.

 

Marine sterio so I don't have to worry about the speakers getting wet. Bedlinered interior so I don't have to worry about that either.

 

I have a zero rate and 2" block I'm planning on throwing under it with a possible 1" body lift. The rims are 16.5 and I want to run surplus HMMWV Goodyear OZ radials at 37" tall.

P3160044.JPG

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It is import laws, not Toyota, dictating the sales of the Diesel Hilux. If you want say a diesel 4runner, you can get them in canada, but the U.S. will not let you. Why? Detriot! American cars are bragging about 35-40 mpg now as if they just invented fire! while a 1982 Hona civic got 55mpg....about 30 freakin years ago!!!!

Watch the British Top Gear, they drive new deisel cars that get plenty better than 55mpg!!

 

I do. It is my favorite show.

My experience with the Hilux was in central America, before I saw those episodes. The new ones feel like an early 1980's truck with 1991 graphic decals, and one or two odd features in common with our new toyotas to prove they aren't actually old. The bodywork is like an old Datsun, and the interior is like somethign out of the 60's with stiff vinyl upholstry and tough vinyl on the floor. Everything feels thin and utilitarian.

One thing to note though is that European diesel is better than ours and more expensive. It is good for almost 10MPG better than ours.

Most of those cars are using urea injection systems that give them a big boost. On some cars it made a 12mpg difference. With our high sulfur fuel, it is maybe a 2-3 mpg difference, but helps cars to pass emissions requirements. Those fancy European diesels usually get 15mpg lower when they jump through all the hoops to import them to the US, and run them on our fuel.

 

My first car was nominally american. 1993 ford festiva. (Kia body, Mitsu drivetrain and engine, ford badges)They catch a lot of crap, but they were interesting cars. I got 55/45 easily, and found it to be zippy. (they had something like 5 different engines and I had one of the better ones.) They commonly last 450k miles and only need a few hundred dollars worth of service on things like bearings every 170k or so. It would be a good candidate for simple cheap car apocalypticans.(not counting whatever wear you put on tires, breaks and clutch)

 

Hybrids make me laugh. They cost 3 times as much, have less power, short life parts that cost a ton, and are made out of nasty chemicals. How efficient are they going to be when that big old lithium block stops holding and taking a charge?

I think there is some future potential for them, but nothing on the market appeals. Plug in hybrids will make more sense if cheap wind electricity systems and similar come into play. Currently though wind is the dirtiest form of electricity, because it has to be supplimented with coal in a hurry everytime they think the wind might die down. Using cars as a battery lease storage buffer could work out well when they get the infrastructure in place.

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Well hell, if rob is pulling out pics of his I'll jump.

 

1985 M1009 CUCV. 6.2L Detroit diesel, TH400/NP208 3/4 ton springs 4" spring lift, 10b/14b conversion. currently sitting on 33" Cooper rubber.

 

Marine sterio so I don't have to worry about the speakers getting wet. Bedlinered interior so I don't have to worry about that either.

 

I have a zero rate and 2" block I'm planning on throwing under it with a possible 1" body lift. The rims are 16.5 and I want to run surplus HMMWV Goodyear OZ radials at 37" tall.

I was going to mention your CUCV or a M1008 pickup.

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Hey Ruffian72 post some more pics of your hunting truck. That's the one I want for a comfortable SHTF experience

 

http://forum.saiga-1...095#entry610095

 

He sure does have a nice collection!

 

not to branch this topic off in to a million different directions.....but I still have this sand rail frame sitting around that was an impulse buy a year or two ago. I've done little with it and would really like to find a decent multi-fuel engine for it. Any suggestions from you super smart mechanic car type guys? I prefer to not spend my life savings (whoops already spent that, LOL!) on the engine and trans. It's a rear mount engine so although I'd like to stuff a diesel in it most of them are to heavy. If I could keep the weight under 250lbs on the engine I wouldn't be doing wheelies everywhere.

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Hey Ruffian72 post some more pics of your hunting truck. That's the one I want for a comfortable SHTF experience

 

http://forum.saiga-1...095#entry610095

 

He sure does have a nice collection!

 

not to branch this topic off in to a million different directions.....but I still have this sand rail frame sitting around that was an impulse buy a year or two ago. I've done little with it and would really like to find a decent multi-fuel engine for it. Any suggestions from you super smart mechanic car type guys? I prefer to not spend my life savings (whoops already spent that, LOL!) on the engine and trans. It's a rear mount engine so although I'd like to stuff a diesel in it most of them are to heavy. If I could keep the weight under 250lbs on the engine I wouldn't be doing wheelies everywhere.

For reliability and mileage you could keep your eyes our for an old diesel VW Rabbit... with the light weight of the sand rail it would even be peppy. Also, those are front wheel drive, so adapting the transverse mounted engine and transmission would be far less of a chore. I believe they did well on BioDiesel and treated waste oils as well.

 

An added bonus would be the mechanical Bosch direct injection pump... no electrics to fail to speak of. I think the starter and maybe a tiny low pressure lift fuel pump.

 

A plain VW 1600cc could also be an option... they aren't as common anymore, but air cooling saves weight and complexity. Too bad you're stuck with gasoline and all of the VW headaches.

 

A dirt common engine with good mileage and power vs weight would also be the Chevy Cavalier 2.2l with either stick or auto... little heavy, but parts are dirt cheap and available everywhere. Same goes for the Ford Escort/Focus, Hondas and Toyotas are common, but also commonly beaten by kids.

 

Under 250lbs.... some large motorcycles have very light engines with enough power... but not the gearing. Snowmobiles... Rotax... but they are all going to be expensive to maintain even if you get one for free.

 

Best I can come up with off the cuff.

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I'm going to skin this vehicle so no garuntees on an open engine compartment. Heath great suggestions man, almost dead on what I've read everywhere else (sand rail forums). I wish I could do a mid mount engine, maybe a motorcyle engine wouldn't be a bad idea? It's a short four seater, so maybe a way to mount the engine further in to be able to add more weight?

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Stick with classic jeeps - the parts are plentiful. There a a zillion of them out there and dozens of parts catalogs. 4.0 engine is easily converted to carburetor and points with parts off any Rambler from '69 up.

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Technicals work in combat zones because they are light enough not to set off anti-tank mines. Not because they are good candidates for armor, or especially great in any other way.

 

If you guys want a SHTF vehicle... think realistically. In a MADMAX world, you want a Deuce and a half... or something else with a lot of capacity, reliability, and mobility.

 

...if we are talking about a police state of warlords and martial law, you are going to want to blend in... older Jeep, Taurus... whatever. You need to get past a checkpoint to work or the store, not run through an ambush on a mountainside. Don't attract attention.

 

I can hook you up with a running Deuce in almost any state... And that truck will cost less than the ENGINE you are contemplating putting in that sand rail.

 

$4000.00-$10,000.00 for a running, smashing, multifuel M35...

 

For the price of that diesel Polaris toy, you can have a deuce, a waste oil/veggie oil processing set-up, AND a used Cherokee...

 

If you buy this gear, you may want to get some use out of it as well... buy stuff that can work. Hauling logs, tanks of liquids, clearing roads, building barricades... it all works.

 

Just my :2cents:

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