BuffetDestroyer 969 Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) i cant believe i wasted 10 minutes of my life reading this thread.. ^^^^^ this+1k This thread is now officially a waste of life! Edited January 6, 2012 by BuffetDestroyer 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
go4tze 17 Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 i cant believe i wasted 10 minutes of my life reading this thread.. ^^^^^ this+1k Better than the hour or two i spent on the ARFCOM thread about it XD 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
e30eternal 7 Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 That sucks... Vince was my favorite... Don't blame him though, that place is probably a little different since TV slime-buckets started creepin around... I see a good future for him if he does his own thing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HappYBallZ 31 Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 Just seen those episodes where this all stemmed from... if it's true that is; these days noone knows if all this crap is set-up. However, if it's true and Vince was the lead gunsmith and it happened the way it did I can definitely see where he is coming from with his madness. Guess lets wait and see . No-offense but I would not let that recently promoted apprentice-airhead work on my gun; he just seems very ignorant in the weapons field at the moment IMO. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BobAsh 582 Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 The only thing that concerned me was the nine missing guns. I have never been in the gun making buissness, so I do not know what kind of issue could cause that. Maybe Tony or Ruffian72 can clear up my confusion. It's a paperwork problem. What it probably means is the guns were shipped to the customer without being logged out of the books. When you have a large organization with several people in the chain of receiving, building/repairing, and shipping it can happen. Then when ATF looks in the book, the gun is still logged in but you don't have it. And as for the "FFL ownership", there's absolutely nothing odd about the owner of the company not being the licensee. Who do you think holds the license at Colt or Smith & Wesson? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
patriot 7,197 Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 Ignore the drama and enjoy the show. I'm sure Will is sick of it. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
banshee 69 Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 Ignore the drama and enjoy the show. I'm sure Will is sick of it. I agree, and I do enjoy the show. It looks like they have a lot of fun.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
infernalinferno 0 Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 Vince was definitely a good gun maker.. I see where he was coming from.. If Will was looking for an AR-15 build that would rival the toughness and durability of the legendary AK, he should have given the project to Vince and not that air-head bufoon Chris. Obviously he showed his lack of skill when he could not get the build finished and he had to have Vince build it for him.. and to see Chris say good riddance to Vince, just shows the envy about the fact that he will never be as good a gun builder than Vince, who had to miss his wife's ultra sound because of the incomptence of Chris... I know Will has a soft spot for Chris because he is dating his little girl, but when it comes to business, he should have known that Chris is incapable of building that AR by himself... Best of luck to Vince on his future endeavors..and Chris should maybe stick to his singing.. Oh Wait.. he messed that up to in front of the Ted Nugent.. didn't know how to play a damn guitar.. and of course we all know the show is scripted... but if Vince did leave, its cuz he deserved a little more respect from Will.. Will was playing favorites with Chris and that is not how a business is run.. If he had given the project to Vince in the first place, he wouldn't have had all those problems.. and chris all he did was clean up the gun for the General and took all the credit for it I am sure.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sdustin 578 Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 Its really sad that Will would have someone buliding guns that cant even assemble an ar15 and a drop in gas system and put it on the right setting, work on it ALL NIGHT trying to make it work and it just wasnt on the right gas setting. then make it look like they "built" it when all they did was put together parts that they bought then chris couldnt even do that. Will told vince that he wasnt working on it chris was then went back and told him to do what chris says. then he say "this ar will beat any ar" it wasnt even designed as a gas gun and a adam arms piston kit. come on have you seen they want like 2400 for that, ill bet a POF would run that ar into the ground hell for a mear 1300 you can get a ruger sr556 thats made from the ground up as a gas gun not with some drop in gas piston installed by some guy that thinks guitars should shoot flames. I just hope vince opens his own shop and make a .410 arrow gun i so want one of those. For real though ill bet felm is now the expert, he really seems like hes a smart on. they should stick to saiga conversions they are easy, hell most of the monkeys on here can do one of those, from what i hear about their silencers youd be better off with a soda pop bottle. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pitbulld45 23 Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 Ya Im with you guys on this. Chris cant wipe his own ass in a gun shop. Then he took the credit at the end and ran his mouth about Vince. Really?? If Chris wasnt with Steph he would still be sweeping the floors and cleaning the shit out of the dog pen. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR Young 175 Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 Wasn't Chris tasked with the MANAGEMENT of the AR build? That would imply (to me, at least) that he was to oversee the build and to put certain members of Red Jacket to certain aspects of the build. I could be wrong about that, though. I did think it was odd that the AR was shipped with the incorrect buffer, though. I'd like to know what happened there. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pitbulld45 23 Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 Ya thas what Will said, then he told Vince that he had work of his own and to worry about that if I remember correctly. Either way Kris couldnt assymble the Ar Quote Link to post Share on other sites
YOT 3,743 Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 (edited) Like anything else, they only show us what they want us to see. Reality TV and news media are alot alike. Edited January 19, 2012 by Yeoldetool 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR Young 175 Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 Like anything else, they only show us what they want us to see. Reality TV and news media are alot alike. That's the truth. We don't even always see things in chronological order. There is no doubt that Discovery Channel has scripted in a lot of drama and whatever else they believe will boost viewership. I also asked Glenn Flemming (Flemm on the show) via his facebook page what the time lag was between an event occurring and it being shown on the show, and he said it's roughly a 4-6 month lag. I figured it was in the 6 month range. I was curious because I wondered how far along Vince was with his new business venture. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pitbulld45 23 Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 What is Vince' new buisness? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR Young 175 Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 (edited) What is Vince' new buisness? Mesa Kinetic Research, LLC <Link Removed> Edited January 19, 2012 by Nailbomb Link to non-business member removed 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nailbomb 10,221 Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 Just because he doesn't have a storefront up yet... I'm not coming back to this thread to delete that later on when he does. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR Young 175 Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 Oh, sorry about that. I didn't think about the 'no linking to non-business member websites' thing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pitbulld45 23 Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 What is Vince' new buisness? Mesa Kinetic Research, LLC <Link Removed> Thanks. I will google it and check out what he has going on. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
YOT 3,743 Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 What is Vince' new buisness? Mesa Kinetic Research, LLC <Link Removed> Thanks. I will google it and check out what he has going on. Not much yet. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sdustin 578 Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 Regardless of how they make them look they still want a crapload of money for a box of parts that some workers they have can't put together. Then make it look like they actully made it. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ms33837 33 Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) When Will first started the project Steph asked him about Chris and he said it was to big a job and Chris wasn't ready, but Steph sung Chris's praises and like a father it seemed like he wanted to make her happy Good Dad -bad business Edited January 20, 2012 by dogman33836 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
infernalinferno 0 Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) Wasn't Chris tasked with the MANAGEMENT of the AR build? That would imply (to me, at least) that he was to oversee the build and to put certain members of Red Jacket to certain aspects of the build. I could be wrong about that, though. I did think it was odd that the AR was shipped with the incorrect buffer, though. I'd like to know what happened there. If Chris was tasked with the MANAGEMENT, he should have known how to delegate what he didnt know to someone who does.. He tried building the AR by himself so he could credit and show off to Will and Steph that he is a real gun builder, failed miserably and was looking to Vince to bail him out as usual.. Heck if I was in Vince's place, being the more experience and senior gun builder, I would feel like I was disrespected too..Vince builds the gun and Chris gets to take the credit in Vegas in front of the General as he was the one who "managed" the build.. And if Will loses his temper at Vince for not shipping it himself, maybe he wouldn't have that problem had someone competent built it in the first place.. Not sure how long Chris was working on it, but after all that time, it looked like Vince did it over night..(Of course not sure of the timelines the way the editing works on reality television)... Imagine if Vince had the time to build it like Chris did.. Wouldn't the results have been much different? Grow up Chris.. I liked season 1 better, when I thought the show wasn't as scripted as the new season is. What I still don't understand is, If this build was as critical to Red Jacket's future as Will made it sound on the show, wouldn't it make sense to give it to the one person who is most capable of completing the task... i.e. Vince.. and on top of it, while Vince stayed at work and completed the build, Chris was off in Vegas chilling with Steph.. He should have stayed in Baton Rouge and saw the project through if he was given the "management" of the build.. Not leave Vince to pick up where Chris' incomptence self left it..and Chris wasn't even close to getting it right... Now that Vince has left, Joe and Flem are the only real gun makers there.. Chris does not have talent when it comes to gun building or music... Guitar with flames is the best idea he came up with for a gun build.. and who made it for him? Vince and Joe... Chris is good for the secondary stuff.. like shining up the gun once the build is complete.. I was a fan of Will the way he ran his business the right way.. But treating your employees unfairly and playing favorites is unfortunately the wrong way... I am sure Red Jacket will survive without Vince, but it won't be the same.. In fact may I dare to say that Will just lost some credibility with that last episode... Edited January 20, 2012 by BlaZin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sdustin 578 Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 Will definitely lost some credit. Whith the first few episodes he lost all credit with most of the real gun people. I'm big into silencers and red jacket has never been given any respect in that field. Now for sagia conversions, they are good to go. Now on ar15s, its red hack-it. Wow has that been used before. Red hack-it. Hey as most of you know you can hack an ak and it's still passable as good craftsmanship. Will definitely lost some credit. Whith the first few episodes he lost all credit with most of the real gun people. I'm big into silencers and red jacket has never been given any respect in that field. Now for sagia conversions, they are good to go. Now on ar15s, its red hack-it. Wow has that been used before. Red hack-it. Hey as most of you know you can hack an ak and it's still passable as good craftsmanship. Will definitely lost some credit. Whith the first few episodes he lost all credit with most of the real gun people. I'm big into silencers and red jacket has never been given any respect in that field. Now for sagia conversions, they are good to go. Now on ar15s, its red hack-it. Wow has that been used before. Red hack-it. Hey as most of you know you can hack an ak and it's still passable as good craftsmanship. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Photoguy 202 Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) Was that the paragraph that was so nice, it had to be said thrice?? Anyway, I also have to admit that Will has lost credability. One of the largest potential contracts to ever set itself on RJF's doorstep, and you give the management of the build to the kid who, as evidenced by a couple of episodes before, couldn't believe that gunsmithing was so "easy"? Wow. Look, I love my daughter to death, too, but I would NOT have had her greenhorn boyfriend handle a military contract build, especially when you have a few really good gunsmiths back in the shop to choose from. I haven't seen the episode yet, but if Kris really did trash the guy who had to pull his ass out of a tight spot, then that is some pretty dirty pool. Dirty, cocky "I'm-porking-the-boss'-daughter" pool. Please, PLEASE don't make me thing of 'American Guns' as being the better of the two shows.....PLEASE.. Edited January 20, 2012 by Photoguy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sdustin 578 Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 Yea I'm posting on my phone it messes up sometimes. And yea gunsmithing is easy. Until you have an adjustable gas system. Stick to ak where of it doesn't run drill a bigger hole. And I wonder how many of those family arm bands will has made. She already has two kids. And they act like he's giving away his virgin daughter. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
beerasaurus 9 Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 I'm still trying to figure out how assembling a bunch of already well-used systems is "innovating." How many gas piston ARs are on the market now? Has no other vendor ever paired them with magpul parts? Because it looks like that's all they did. Shit...I could've been an industry leader a year ago. And to sell them for $2,400. For that price I can get a SCAR--which does everything their gun does, plus a whole helluva lot more. I just don't get it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pitbulld45 23 Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 I'm still trying to figure out how assembling a bunch of already well-used systems is "innovating." How many gas piston ARs are on the market now? Has no other vendor ever paired them with magpul parts? Because it looks like that's all they did. Shit...I could've been an industry leader a year ago. And to sell them for $2,400. For that price I can get a SCAR--which does everything their gun does, plus a whole helluva lot more. I just don't get it. They have claimed to be the first or to have invented something several times on things that have already been done and done better. If this project was really so important and Will is such a good gun smith himself dont you think he would have been elbow to elbow with the builders making sure the gun was done correctly? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR Young 175 Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 I think that some people are losing sight of the simple fact that we are viewing a heavily edited, probably heavily slanted, television show. That makes it very hard to pass any sort of judgement on any of the individuals that we see on the show. I'm not saying that I'm on any particular side of any of the personalities, but I'm certainly not going to pass judgement on any of them based on what that show is broadcasting to us. The one thing that I will say is that it did seem to me as if Vince felt that he wasn't given the respect that he deserved, and FROM WHAT WE WERE SHOWN, I could understand that. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MT Predator 2,294 Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 Heavily edited but it's becoming more obvious either a script has come into play or they are all making a terrible attempt at being actors. How is the AR in question innovative by using off the shelf parts to build a rifle? Putting ARs together are like playing with Legos, guess Chris had a deprived childhood. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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