Sight options? Not liking HK style..

[CBR Shadow 53]

Right now I have the Chaos Titan rail with Chaos H&K sights. I've had them for a while now and probably put 250 or so rounds through the S12 with them on. I'm not a huge fan of this style of sights because I find it hard to aim very quickly sinc ehte notch is so small on the rear sights. I know these are popular sights and a lot of people like them, I'm just not a big fan. Anyways, what other options are there? What does everyone else have? I would really like it if I could find some that match up with an EOTech as a cowitness. Thoughts?

My brother has an EO Tech on his AR15 and I love it and have to have one

[YOT 3,743]

It never made sense to me to put rifle sights on a shotgun.

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

Sights? What sights? I never realized that there were any.... didn't think I needed sights.

 

Really, I wouldn't mind trying some HiViz type sights or something if I decided to shoot slugs for something other than short range carnage.

Edited December 28, 2011 by evlblkwpnz

[CBR Shadow 53]

No real answers?

[Lidocaine Looney 26]

Put that side rail mount to use... Just my .02.. I really enjoy my setup.. Rakurs-A1

 

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

What about a R&R Targets mount with Burris Fasfire? If I wanted to run an optic on a Saiga 12, it would certainly be something like that. Small, lightweight, and low profile.

[EthanM 514]

You could use the Troy micro battlesights.

 

ETA: sorry read post again. Any of the ar sight should work good with an eotech not the micros.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Ethan M

[IxLikexRussianxGuns 3]

Forgive a noobs post:

 

I asked myself the same question regarding optics....long story short, the factory sights, much like everything else in factory config., work fine.

 

Maybe you have a special setup:

Do you shoot any specific loads frequently?

8 shot- depending on your choke, optics don't matter

00 Buck?- A simple red dot should suffice

 

Regarding EOTech- Wonderful, name brand, maybe overkill on a shotgun, and run a very pretty penny. Just think of the 5 MD drums you get for that one sight....

And on a side note, that green finish is stunning.

[Jpanzer 1,265]

Krebs Custom S12 Sights.

 

http://www.tac47industries.com/content-product_info/product_id-2120/krebs_custom_saiga_12_combat_shotgun_sights.html

 

With these I can put a slug anywhere I want it downrange.Very easy to quickly acquire your target. The difference between these and the stock irons is like night and day. Head and shoulders above. Always thought the HK style was impractical for a shotgun, but they do look cool!

Edited December 28, 2011 by Jpanzer

[glennhmd 23]

you might consider this.

 

 

or this:

 

 

 

personally, i use stock sights on mine and slap on the red dot when using slugs past 50 yards.

 

Edited December 28, 2011 by glennhmd

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

you might consider this.

 

 

or this:

 

 

 

personally, i use stock sights on mine and slap on the red dot when using slugs past 50 yards.

 

What kind of trigger guard is that? Who did the conversion and AK100 install?

[MT Predator 2,294]

An EOTech is going to sit awful high as well as standard AR BUIS to cowitness IMO. The Troy Micros will sit lower but not offer the cowitness with the EOTech. I'm running an Aimpoint Comp M3 in a low Aimpoint mount which do cowitness the Chaos HK style sights on an extended rail. Since you don't like the HK style, maybe the Troy Micros would cowitness on a similar Aimpoint setup.

[Nailbomb 10,221]

the problem you'll run into using AR sights is the height. You'll have to make a riser for your buttstock to keep any respectable cheek weld.

 

The H&K sights are as popular as they are due to the large open first position, and the alternate peeps being able to be drilled out to fit the user. If anyone else has both the H&K and the Chaos ones you'll notice the holes are already a little bigger than the H&K ones. Also they sit so low that you can get good cheek weld with standard AK stocks. Co-witness options are even available.

 

The krebs sights are a good alternative, but require you to give up the top rail, and you won't find many cowitness options.

 

Your EOTech will also give you issues with needing a riser on your buttstock.

 

It never made sense to me to put rifle sights on a shotgun.

 

Especialy when doing something like turkey hunting it makes perfect sense. You have to get out of the mindset that your just aiming in a direction and relying on the spread, your choking down and maximizing damage to a smaller area.

 

And there is always the argument of repeatability. When you make your shotguns fit the rifle mold you no longer need to train for two seperate weapons platforms.

[sneaky 2]

Just watch putting a side rail on it, caused mine to jam with an eotech on a leigon arms mount. Have it on a scout rail now and love it.. no iron sights. If the battery fail, oh well. Everything in the window gets hit.

[Parf 19]

Right now I have the Chaos Titan rail with Chaos H&K sights. I've had them for a while now and probably put 250 or so rounds through the S12 with them on. I'm not a huge fan of this style of sights because I find it hard to aim very quickly sinc ehte notch is so small on the rear sights. I know these are popular sights and a lot of people like them, I'm just not a big fan. Anyways, what other options are there? What does everyone else have? I would really like it if I could find some that match up with an EOTech as a cowitness. Thoughts?

My brother has an EO Tech on his AR15 and I love it and have to have one

 

Open the notch up with a file. I don't think you have anything to loose at this point since you already own the sights. I do this to my AK rears with a chainsaw file, but that would be much to big for a sight so much closer to your eye.

 

How about the XS HK ghost ring setup? Huge tritium dot on the front, big ghost ring rear installed on your Chaos sights.

 

 

I wouldn't bother trying to co-witness an Eotech, just use the existing sights as a backup if/when you take the Eotech off. If you went with a regular "tube" style red dot, I bet you could co-witness with low rings.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Parf

[MT Predator 2,294]

I wouldn't bother trying to co-witness an Eotech, just use the existing sights as a backup if/when you take the Eotech off. If you went with a regular "tube" style red dot, I bet you could co-witness with low rings.

Good marksmanship does depend on consistancy. The same cheekweld, sight picture/alignment, trigger squeeze, etc. Removing the EOTech to use the irons can yield different results. Like I said, an Aimpoint Comp in a low Aimpoint mount will cowitness the Chaos sights. An Aimpoint T-1 mounted low does as well.

[Parf 19]

I wouldn't bother trying to co-witness an Eotech, just use the existing sights as a backup if/when you take the Eotech off. If you went with a regular "tube" style red dot, I bet you could co-witness with low rings.

Good marksmanship does depend on consistancy. The same cheekweld, sight picture/alignment, trigger squeeze, etc. Removing the EOTech to use the irons can yield different results. Like I said, an Aimpoint Comp in a low Aimpoint mount will cowitness the Chaos sights. An Aimpoint T-1 mounted low does as well.

 

Cheekweld with an EOTech on an AK? It's just too high. If you want the benefits of an EOTech, that's what you give up, and I can't see spending more money to try and co-witness the irons with it. I do agree with you about using a "low-rise" red dot. I only run T-1's myself these days.

[YOT 3,743]

It never made sense to me to put rifle sights on a shotgun.

 

Especialy when doing something like turkey hunting it makes perfect sense. You have to get out of the mindset that your just aiming in a direction and relying on the spread, your choking down and maximizing damage to a smaller area.

 

And there is always the argument of repeatability. When you make your shotguns fit the rifle mold you no longer need to train for two seperate weapons platforms.

 

I have a dedicated turkey gun. The advantage of a shotgun IS a pattern spread. The purpose of the choke is to use the pattern at a longer distance, not to hit a turkey in the head with 200 pellets at 20 yards. And I truly think training with only one gun format is foolish.

[MT Predator 2,294]

I have a dedicated turkey gun. The advantage of a shotgun IS a pattern spread. The purpose of the choke is to use the pattern at a longer distance, not to hit a turkey in the head with 200 pellets at 20 yards. And I truly think training with only one gun format is foolish.

Hmm, my dedicated turkey gun is choked down to get as many pellets into the Tom's head at 20 yards. If it is a self defense scenerio, I want as may pellets into the assailant to stop the threat, not hit him with a couple of pellets spraying and praying.

 

And I truly think training with only one gun format is foolish.

I think a better wording would have been "one less weapon platform" to train with. That's why the Military is leaning towards AR platform Designated Marksman Rifles in both 5.56 and 7.62. The Manual of Arms is common with what the shooter is already trained for.

 

Cheekweld with an EOTech on an AK? It's just too high. If you want the benefits of an EOTech, that's what you give up, and I can't see spending more money to try and co-witness the irons with it. I do agree with you about using a "low-rise" red dot. I only run T-1's myself these days.

More like a jaw weld with an EOTech! They are great sights but not for this platform.

[RED333 1,025]

Krebs Custom S12 Sights.

 

http://www.tac47indu...gun_sights.html

 

With these I can put a slug anywhere I want it downrange.Very easy to quickly acquire your target. The difference between these and the stock irons is like night and day. Head and shoulders above. Always thought the HK style was impractical for a shotgun, but they do look cool!

 

+++1

I have this sight on mine, picked up from lvjeffro, I really like them.

[YOT 3,743]

I have a dedicated turkey gun. The advantage of a shotgun IS a pattern spread. The purpose of the choke is to use the pattern at a longer distance, not to hit a turkey in the head with 200 pellets at 20 yards. And I truly think training with only one gun format is foolish.

Hmm, my dedicated turkey gun is choked down to get as many pellets into the Tom's head at 20 yards. If it is a self defense scenerio, I want as may pellets into the assailant to stop the threat, not hit him with a couple of pellets spraying and praying.

 

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/MediaPages/ArticleDetail.aspx?mediaid=20

http://www.ehow.com/about_6640585_shotgun-choke-tubes-explained.html

http://www.briley.com/understandingshotgunchokesabriefexplanationbybriley.aspx

 

There are hundreds of sites that say the same thing.

 

And I truly think training with only one gun format is foolish.

I think a better wording would have been "one less weapon platform" to train with. That's why the Military is leaning towards AR platform Designated Marksman Rifles in both 5.56 and 7.62. The Manual of Arms is common with what the shooter is already trained for.

 

 

I said what I meant.

[Nailbomb 10,221]

I have a dedicated turkey gun. The advantage of a shotgun IS a pattern spread. The purpose of the choke is to use the pattern at a longer distance, not to hit a turkey in the head with 200 pellets at 20 yards. And I truly think training with only one gun format is foolish.

Honestly, I don't expect you to see my point, but with as many turkey guns I've seen with scopes you would think something like rifle sights would be a no brainer.

 

Further, a standard shotgun bead — or even a front and rear bead — pretty much obscures a gobbler farther than 40 steps. When you put the bead on the head or neck of a bird at 40-plus steps, you’re basically guessing.

You wouldn’t fire a big-game rifle without a sight, so your turkey gun should be similarly equipped with a sight or scope.

Iron or fiber-optic sights work well. They’re easy to sight in, provide pinpoint accuracy and don’t add bulk like a scope. Light-gathering fiber-optic models are especially nice in the haze of early morning. If there’s one knock against such sights it’s that they can snag or break on brush or limbs.

Scource: http://www.turkeyandturkeyhunting.com/shooting-advice/fine-tuning-your-ultimate-turkey-shotgun

 

Train with as many weapon setups as you want it only makes it harder to achieve the often sought after muscle memory that is needed in high stress environments.

[YOT 3,743]

Nailbomb, You seem to be taking my comment about sights on a turkey gun too personally.

 

I understand perfectly the reasoning for a scope on a turkey gun, but if a turkey's head is behind that beaded shotgun without a scope, the only thing you need to worry about is effective range. Shotguns, or any gun for that matter is about effective range and it should be obvious that gun sights are designed to correspond with the effective range of the gun they're mounted on. You never see shotgun scopes beyond 4X, and usually 1.5X to 2.5X because anything more than that would be beyond the gun's effective range that the scope is mounted. It should be a "no brainer" that it would be the same for sights. You can put whatever sights you want on any gun you want, but it doesn't make the effective range any different.

 

As far as stress, here's one of my very recent days at work. I've been doing it for 21 years now. I know stress. http://poststar.com/news/blotter/great-meadow-locked-down-after-inmate-fights/article_cc92d7f2-283e-11e1-80dc-001871e3ce6c.html

[Nailbomb 10,221]

Nothing personal, my idea of effective and yours simply seem to have a variance.

 

No one claimed sights increase effective range, just effective aiming. I can't think of a reason to use the 3 or 4 settings on my H&K sights. open sights for a more pistol style sight picture and peep for more pinpoint aiming.

 

So your a guard. carrying a weapon on you every day at work surely gives you the opportunity to familiarize yourself with multiple weapon systems. Its a great benefit.

 

Others of us don't have that going for them. It can be hard enough to gain or maintain muscle memory in one or two weapon formats.

[incognito485 26]

I second the red dot. Go buy you a scope mount with a picatiny rail and mount whatever you want. I use a Bushnell TRS-25 red dot. Its great.

[MT Predator 2,294]

What Nailbomb is referring to is being able to effectively run the weapon under Combat Stress. The Military currently achieves this by shooting to muscle memory which is shooting a shit ton of ammo frequently. It instills a "muscle memory" to run the weapon, deal with malfunctions, or transition to the secondary during a high stress incident like a firefight. Nothing else compares to a firefight, not Three Gun competitions, not jail fights. When rounds are flying on a two way range, speed is kind of critical. If you have to think about what weapon system you are operating or instinctively try to run it like the last (different) platform you trained hard on, you are going to become a casualty. (This is where a Tactics Section would be useful).

 

Back on topic about the sighting options on a shotgun. If you are not choked down and using a bead sight and it works for you, great. My turkey gun with its dedicated ported and choked down barrel came with fiber optic rifle sights stock for a reason. It works. My adding an Aimpoint on it only dialed in the accuracy even more, not extending its range. Instead of covering the bird's head with the front sight, I can put a red dot in the center of his head. Same goes with my setup on my S12. A reflex type sight is going to provide better accuracy than the irons especially with slugs. There is a reason companies manufacter slug barrels with rifle sights or an integrated scope mount. Once again, it's increasing accuracy, not increasing range.

Edited December 31, 2011 by MT Predator

[BigBear72 2]

I have always been a fan of the HK sights and use them. As far as a red dot I use a Bushnell Holosight (Gen 1) on my shotgun mounted to a Chaos Rail. I have no problem with getting a cheek weld and the lower profile works well. Having the option of changing the style of the reticle is also a plus

[garnaz 215]

What about benelli type sights like the Vangcomp sights.These would need to be custom fitted don't know what exactly what it would take but looking at them some machining may be needed to fit saiga.

[FiReBReTHa 11]

My next project is trying to figure out this answer

 

[glennhmd 23]

 

 

personally, i use stock sights on mine and slap on the red dot when using slugs past 50 yards.

 

What kind of trigger guard is that? Who did the conversion and AK100 install?

 

@Evlblkwpnz:

 

you are looking at my bone-stock S12. I'm from the Philippines so i believe its "Stock Russian S12". the trigger guard is stock too. I just wrapped it in the same material (tennis racket grip tape) which i used to wrap the stock pistol grip with. found the stock grip to be too skinny and the trigger guard too sharp in the edges so i wrapped them all up with this felt-leather-like material - Third World style baby.