Which rifle should I get? 5.56 or 5.45

[WI_Dave 26]

I love my s-12 so much I am looking to convert and customize my first Saiga rifle and can't decide which caliber to get. I have read both topics on here, but found very little negatives about either. It will just be a toy so it doesn't have to be extremely accurate, I will play with a slidefire stock on it when I can afford the shells, maybe a little small game hunting on occasion, but mostly just range shooting. I know 5.45 are cheaper but 5.56 are more readily available around here. Please give any pros or cons to each you may have.

Edited May 2, 2012 by Nailbomb

[Mullet Man 2,114]

Sounds like you already know the pros/cons.

I would choose 5.45 purely based off of surplus ammo/magazine prices.

Both will be plenty accurate. Both will be plenty reliable.

[vulcan16 971]

The cost of mags for the 223 are higher. I'm paying around $25 a mag for Surefires.

5.45 ammo isn't as readily available as 223.

Both are fun as hell to shoot.

Looks like its a coin toss.

[wtjosaas 72]

I decided on the 5.45 and have one on order. I also bought a case of ammo and will order another case soon.

[WI_Dave 26]

Ok I think I'm leaning to 5.45 now hopefully I can find one at $299 again.

[Scott Kenny 144]

I'm leaning more towards 5.56, just because it's easier to find ammo. If you roll your own, .223 is rather cheap (friend of mine reloads his match ammo for $0.27 or so per round, ~$5.50/bx). I haven't found any reloading supplies for 5.45.

[mancat 2,368]

If I had other 5.45 rifles, I would've chosen 5.45. Since I don't, I'd rather stockpile a common US caliber, and have access to all of the variety of commercial loads that are available for 5.56/.223. Once conversion is done, magazines are not really an issue - there are more 5.56 AK magazine options than many lead you to believe. It was a 5.56 Saiga for me. Mine has been great so far.

 

5.45 made more sense a few years ago when you could pick up an SGL-31, WASR-2, SAR-2, Tantal or Century M74 and a few tins of surplus for less than $500. Now, not so much.

 

Unless you want to shoot corrosive surplus, commercial 5.45 and 5.56/.223 are about on par as far as cost. Bulk surplus 5.56 is also available from many sources.

Edited January 5, 2012 by mancat

[TJohn 8]

You should get one of each, they are cheap enough right now. Then pick up and 7.62 and .308 later.

Edited January 6, 2012 by TJohn

[wtjosaas 72]

I put in my order today for a 5.56 that's in stock since I'm still waiting for the 5.45 thats on backorder.

[jimdigriz 580]

I'm leaning more towards 5.56, just because it's easier to find ammo. If you roll your own, .223 is rather cheap (friend of mine reloads his match ammo for $0.27 or so per round, ~$5.50/bx).

 

So, double what 5.45 surplus costs.

[Scott Kenny 144]

If he loads cheap-ass, I think it's under $0.15/rd. But why reload with cheap-ass components? It's not like you're going to save money there. How much is 5.45 match-grade ammo? Does it even exist?

 

Like I said, that's his *match* ammo. Nosler Ballistic Tips on top of Varget powder. Very consistent stuff, consistently drills sub MOA out of Greg's 24"bbl at 500 yards. Not to mention has drilled holes through a pistol-rated dueling tree once, though that was with Armscor 55gr FMJ.

 

Does your 5.45 surplus give you sub-MOA capability?

[jimdigriz 580]

If he loads cheap-ass, I think it's under $0.15/rd. But why reload with cheap-ass components? It's not like you're going to save money there. How much is 5.45 match-grade ammo? Does it even exist?

 

Like I said, that's his *match* ammo. Nosler Ballistic Tips on top of Varget powder. Very consistent stuff, consistently drills sub MOA out of Greg's 24"bbl at 500 yards. Not to mention has drilled holes through a pistol-rated dueling tree once, though that was with Armscor 55gr FMJ.

 

Does your 5.45 surplus give you sub-MOA capability?

 

You're asking the wrong question. If you have a sub-MOA rifle in ANY Saiga caliber, you've gotten _extremely_ lucky. I'm betting it doesn't exist. Buy a quality AR instead and be done, if that's the kind of accuracy you desire.

 

Personally, I find the trade-off not worth it. My Saigas are capable of 2-3 MOA with a red dot, which is plenty good enough. Why? Because they are not mainly range toys, but tools for defending my family. They're more than accurate enough for that purpose, plus they are reliable, rugged, and simple to maintain.

 

The 7N6 surplus round is also reliable, and it is an accurate round. It costs me less than 14 cents a round delivered to my door. If I want even more accuracy, I can buy the Hornady 5.45. It is still not a match round though.

[anthony1 5]

I was torn too, so l just got both. 223 has great bullet selection. 545 has cheap crates of surplus that you can blast away with without having to worry about trying to find your brass that these things throw 15-20 yds away.

[WI_Dave 26]

Well since I bought 1080rds of 5.45 yesterday I guess thats the one I'm gonna get (first at least)

Now I hope I can get the $299 backorder deal ordered tonight and get it soon cause I'm itchin to shoot it.

[Mullet Man 2,114]

If he loads cheap-ass, I think it's under $0.15/rd. But why reload with cheap-ass components? It's not like you're going to save money there. How much is 5.45 match-grade ammo? Does it even exist?

 

Like I said, that's his *match* ammo. Nosler Ballistic Tips on top of Varget powder. Very consistent stuff, consistently drills sub MOA out of Greg's 24"bbl at 500 yards. Not to mention has drilled holes through a pistol-rated dueling tree once, though that was with Armscor 55gr FMJ.

 

Does your 5.45 surplus give you sub-MOA capability?

 

You're asking the wrong question. If you have a sub-MOA rifle in ANY Saiga caliber, you've gotten _extremely_ lucky. I'm betting it doesn't exist. Buy a quality AR instead and be done, if that's the kind of accuracy you desire.

 

Personally, I find the trade-off not worth it. My Saigas are capable of 2-3 MOA with a red dot, which is plenty good enough. Why? Because they are not mainly range toys, but tools for defending my family. They're more than accurate enough for that purpose, plus they are reliable, rugged, and simple to maintain.

 

The 7N6 surplus round is also reliable, and it is an accurate round. It costs me less than 14 cents a round delivered to my door. If I want even more accuracy, I can buy the Hornady 5.45. It is still not a match round though.

 

Very true Jim! $0.14 a round delivered and absolutely no time spent reloading. Which means more time honing in the accuracy of your Saiga and skills as a shooter by putting more rounds down range.

 

If you want match grade ammo and performance, you need a match grade rifle to take advantage of it. Saigas or any AK are not in that category and if you are hoping for it, or thinking they are, then i've got some ocean front property in Montana for you to buy.

Its a Kalashnikov guys, dont fool yourselves. Supreme accuracy is not what was intended when the design was birthed.

Decent accuracy and supreme reliability/simplicity are what you can expect and will get with a Saiga.

Edited January 9, 2012 by Mullet Man

[Coloey 17]

Have been looking at the Saiga 5.56 and pricing ammo when I noticed that 7.62 ammo seems to be cheaper than the 5.56/.223. Am I wrong about the ammo, or is the 7.62 not as good of a weapon as the other 2?

[jimdigriz 580]

Have been looking at the Saiga 5.56 and pricing ammo when I noticed that 7.62 ammo seems to be cheaper than the 5.56/.223. Am I wrong about the ammo, or is the 7.62 not as good of a weapon as the other 2?

 

Pricing is all about supply and demand, not a measure of the potency of a caliber. I choose 5.45, but 7.62 is also a great caliber.

[universal_exports 18]

i think people get to hung on accuracy, yes it is important, however being a combat veteran twice, when your heart is beating out of your chest, your nerves are on edge, people are moving and yelling, you dont have time to build a nice cushy gun rest, make sure the rifle is sitting nice and flat, adjust it into your shoulder a time or two, verify you have the same sight picture every time, wait for the natural pause or hold your breath, wait until the guy next to you stops his firing, squeeze the travel out of the trigger, get dead on target, and squeeze, off a round.

your nerves and natural survival instinct would just not let you. as soon as the sights come across them, you unleash hell and hope for a hit.

 

you want to put bullets down range as quick as possible, establish fire superiority, as soon as possible, if their heads are down they aint shooting at you, I have 22 years in the army, lots of experience both good and bad with the AR, that is why I am an AK guy, I prefer rock solid reliability and will give up a couple of MOA for it. and I believe either the 5.54 or 7.62 has more catastrophic effect when hitting the body than a 556. however not trying to start a feud, just judging on what I have seen, been told and read. not taking anything away from a 556, it does shoot flatter, and I would certainly not want to be shot by one.

Edited January 17, 2012 by universal_exports

[Sim_Player 1,939]

"Perfection is the enemy of good enough". No truer words could describe AK combat accuracy.

 

Why put match grade ammo in a rifle designed for suppressive fire.

 

Every mechanic knows that you use the right tool for the job.

[anthony1 5]

Edited January 26, 2012 by anthony1

[jimdigriz 580]

When deciding between 556 or 545 saiga l originally ordered both (backordered) then cancelled the 223 and went with the 545 for mainly the cheap ammo. Another factor was the saiga 223 having a 1/10 twist which would more than likely limit you to the lighter weight spectrum of 223 bullets in most circumstances. If the saiga 223 had a 1/7 twist l'd pick one up as well.

 

I'm pretty sure Saiga 223s have a 1/9 twist, not 1/10. The SLR106 has a 1/7.

[lackgunCO 1]

5.56. My Galil mags fit my Saiga. Also, have ARs and Galil that both shoot 5.56. Easy to get brass for reloads. By cheap Tula steel case for $4.09 box. Federal for $5.58 box. Also if SHTF Nato rounds abound.

[Lone Eagle 839]

You just gotta ask yourself one question: If the crap goes south, which one will be more readilly available on the streets?

 

I went 5.56/.223 beause it answers the above question. THe round is so poular, every Tom, Dick, and Harry has it.

[jimdigriz 580]

You just gotta ask yourself one question: If the crap goes south, which one will be more readilly available on the streets?

 

I went 5.56/.223 beause it answers the above question. THe round is so poular, every Tom, Dick, and Harry has it.

 

I don't think any round will be readily available in that circumstance "on the streets". Count only on what you've set aside.

Edited January 27, 2012 by Jim Digriz

[armory 142]

If the Ammo is not in the safe, the chances of finding it or being able to afford/barter for it if SHTF will be slim to none.

[dowork1021 64]

I used the AR mag adapter from MSA and have had nothing but great results from the product. My Saiga 223 project was my answere for the SHTF scenario everybody talks about. AK reliability with 5.56 nato capatibility. It was a fun project but ill stick with my Norinco Mak-90 in x39, 3k plus rounds and it has not ever failed me.

 

 

 

 

P.S... Im selling it soon to start my 545 project.

Edited February 3, 2012 by foreign firearm fiend

[Tigerclaw_x 1]

This is JUST an opinion. I recommend 5.56NATO bullets. It has better FPS and better ballistics. In USA you can find 60gr 5.45 bullets. However 5.56 NATO you can go much heavier. US XM855 has much beter performance then WOLF 60gr, and 7N20 isn't available in USA. Just my 5 cents, just an opinon.

[thebuns1 4,323]

the only reason 5.56 turns out better numbers over a 5.45 is test barrel length. look at all the big makers and see what their test length is. its generally between 20" -24". the higher numbers are a marketing gimmick. you wont get that high with a 16" barrel. the testing i seen between the two with a chrony was a difference of about 20-29 fps between the two calibers on a 16" barrel, and that will vary from lot to lot.

 

and as for weight, i can find wolf ammo in 5.45 with up to 70 gr. bullets. i feel that the 5.45 rivals the 5.56 on all levels except selection. comparing two calibers on two seperate platforms doesnt allow for much fairness in accuracy. both calibers should be shot from the same platform to see the best results. i go with 5.45 7n6 mainly because it will perform with much more consistancy over a 5.56. especially at a longer range, but will vary much greater as lot numbers change. thats one of the downsides, but not a big issue.

Edited February 7, 2012 by Captain Hero

[macbeau 902]

If you stock up on all the 5.45 ammo and mags that you can afford while they are cheap and available, then 5.45.

[i'm thinking at least 20 mags and 10,000 rnds of ammo at a minimum)

 

If you want something that you can feed, shoot and reload 10, 15, 20 years from now (and find ready supplies even in Wal-Mart), then 5.56.

 

I love 5.45, but it really hasnt caught on in the US and no major US mfg's make ammo, reloading components (brass. proper bullet weight/shapes) or mags for it. It would be an Albotros in a SHTF situation (It's likely that no one around you could help with mags or ammo resupply) as most people will have .223, .308 or 7.62x38. And when the supply of surplus 5.45 dries up..... Who know what the future has in store?????

 

In 2004/2005, I was buying surplus South African 140 rds, 7.62x51 battle packs for $19 each at local gun shows. I bought a 1240rd case of it from AIM for $125 SHIPPED.

In the same time frame, I was getting Wolf 7.62x39 AND .223 to my door for $100 per case.

FAL and H&K G3 mags were around $3 - $4ea from TAPCO.

Those days are gone.

 

Fast forward to 2012 - At the gun show here last weekend, a (1) SA battle pack was going for $90 - and it sold. A case of Wolf in almost any-caliber is around $230 (non-shipped) a case, if you shop around. H&K mags are still somewhat cheap, but decent FAL mags are $15 -$20 for steel. Even surplus M-16 mags that were once $3 -$5 are now $15 - $20 in todays economy.

 

Surplus supplies dry up - and quickly. The only thing going for 5.45 right now is it hasn't caught on with the general public. If and when it does.... Damn, who knows what it'll cost?

 

I know that .223, .308 and, to a slightly lesser degree, 7.62x39 mags and ammo are firmly in the US domestic supply system - for now.

 

Chose wisely.

 

Macbeau sends.

[jimdigriz 580]

It would be an Albotros in a SHTF situation (It's likely that no one around you could help with mags or ammo resupply)

 

Why would anyone plan to depend on others for mag or ammo supply in SHTF? I'd no more do that than depend on them for my food supply.

 

Even one can of 5.45 would be more than sufficient for a SHTF situation.

 

Surplus supplies dry up - and quickly. The only thing going for 5.45 right now is it hasn't caught on with the general public. If and when it does.... Damn, who knows what it'll cost?

 

A good argument for stocking up on 5.45 now, if that's the caliber one chooses as primary. Also a good argument to stock an American caliber AK or other rifle as a backup. I've got that covered with 223 and 308, but I'm considering cutting loose the 223 Saiga, as the caliber does nothing for me and I prefer to simplify my procurement needs as much as possible.