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WI_Dave

Which rifle should I get? 5.56 or 5.45

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It would be an Albotros in a SHTF situation (It's likely that no one around you could help with mags or ammo resupply)

 

Why would anyone plan to depend on others for mag or ammo supply in SHTF? I'd no more do that than depend on them for my food supply.

Even one can of 5.45 would be more than sufficient for a SHTF situation.

 

 

If you have non sustainable (re-supplyable) position, you are doomed in a SHTF situation. Food. ammo or otherwise! I am not talking about a burglar-in-the-house as a SHTF situation. I am talking about a community needing to rally for a common defense.

A single shooter is an easy target. If you're in a group commited to the same objective, you stand a chance against an organized adversary.

If not, You're day planner just got a whole lot shorter.

 

"Youth and agility are regularly out matched by age and treachery" - Macbeau

 

Macbeau sends...

Edited by macbeau
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If you have non sustainable (re-supplyable) position, you are doomed in a SHTF situation. Food. ammo or otherwise! I am not talking about a burglar-in-the-house as a SHTF situation. I am talking about a community needing to rally for a common defense.

 

Back during the Obama election gun scare, there were certain calibers that I just could not obtain ammo for, no matter how hard I tried. What do you think will happen in a true SHTF situation? And how can anyone expect to resupply ammo from neighbors? I doubt many of them have more than 100 rounds in any one caliber on hand. And there is no way police or military will resupply civilians.

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How about dead cops, military or neighbors?

Whiich do you think you are more likely to find on them? 5.45 or 5.56?

How about Wal-Mart?

Or there nearest Bass Pro Shop?

How about the corner gas station?

I see MUCH more 5.56 available than 5.45, unless you wanna lug around 10,000+

rounds on your back rather than some food or water.

 

Go with 5.56

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How about dead cops, military or neighbors?

Whiich do you think you are more likely to find on them? 5.45 or 5.56?

How about Wal-Mart?

Or there nearest Bass Pro Shop?

How about the corner gas station?

I see MUCH more 5.56 available than 5.45, unless you wanna lug around 10,000+

rounds on your back rather than some food or water.

 

Go with 5.56

 

I think I'm much more likely to find 5.45 in my basement than 5.56 on dead cops or on neighbors or at Wal-Mart in SHTF. haha.gif Nor do I intend to wander in the wilderness with food and water on my back.

 

The choice of caliber is for each person to make, and honestly I couldn't care less whether someone chooses 5.45 or 5.56, I'm just challenging the idea that anybody will find any caliber in great quantity in SHTF, which is not all that likely an event in the U.S. anyhow. No one should choose a caliber based on an event of .001% probability.

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How about dead cops, military or neighbors?

Whiich do you think you are more likely to find on them? 5.45 or 5.56?

How about Wal-Mart?

Or there nearest Bass Pro Shop?

How about the corner gas station?

I see MUCH more 5.56 available than 5.45, unless you wanna lug around 10,000+

rounds on your back rather than some food or water.

 

Go with 5.56

+1

 

You need at least one reliable .223 battle rifle, even when stocking up on the other calibers.

 

If you are mobile, not able to access a pre-stored cache, you have to think about getting ammo from existing sources, even if it is the spoil resulting from firefights or from planned raids on supply sources. That plays favorably with my .223 converted Saiga with AR mag adapter, reliably putting rounds downrange all day long. Also have Galil's and a few other AK .223 mag types as well.

 

As far as accuracy goes, get yourself a decent sniper rifle setup, a military bolt gun with glass or that trusty deer rifle. Leave the rest up to your AK's and similar weapons. Make sure you have a decent handgun in readily available caliber as well.

 

That being said, also stock up on as many AK 47, 74, SKS as you can with as much ammo as you can store.

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I have the Saiga 5.45 and my buddy has an AR 5.56. We are always doing comparisons with the two using different type of building material. Cinder blocks, steel, wood, stacked phone books, granite slabs. All were equally penetrated / distroyed from 50 yards. The best test was a 1/4" iron pipe 8" in diameter filled with dried mud. Both rounds penetrated 4" ithrough the iron and into the mud, very impressive. So, not much difference in the two as far as penetration capabilities. However, we have gone through over 6000 rounds and his AR has malfunctioned about a dozen times and my AK had 2.

 

As for accuracy, I can shoot both equally well hitting clay targets at 100 yards with iron sights. IMO if the SHTF I will be defending my family and home and probably not shooting over 100 yards without hitting another house. If I'm hunting then that's a whole different gun and caliber.

 

I prefer the 5.45 over the 5.56 because of the price. I can buy 1080 rounds for $160 at my gun store, that's almost half the price of the cheapest 5.56 you can buy. It's great on the wallet for shooting targets and whatever, especially when I go through around 500 rounds per session. If and when the SHTF I have two cans on stand by. Untill then, I'm going to enjoy shooting the hell out of my SAIGA 5.45!

 

As for availability, you can have it delivered to your doorstep.

 

One negitive on the 5.45 is no special rounds like incendiary, armor piercing, etc.

 

Hope this helps.

Edited by LocoToro
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So in this apocalyptic scenario where one can scrounge .223, there are apparently no .223 rifles laying about to be scrounged themselves?

 

Frankly if all this S does indeed HTF, I doubt people will be any less interested in keeping and aquiring ammo than they are in the rifles to shoot it. Meaning that if you're planning on scrounging .223, you are pretty much planning on scrounging .223 rifles as well. I dont picture someone a) having a pile of .223 and no means to shoot it sitting around or b ) people seeing a .223 rifle laying there and then leaving the ammo behind for someone else to find.

 

"Hey look guys! An AR! Grab it! But leave all that ammo. We already have plenty. Some guy with another .223 rifle will come along for it. We have all we need from that arsenal we raided that had tons of .223 and no guns."

 

Seems unlikely.

 

5.45 is fun to shoot, cheap, powerful, and accurate. If your primary concern is SHTF, I humbly suggest the money you save on ammo can go to:

 

Food

Water Purification

Wool Socks

Card Games

Medical Supplies

Cherry Pie Filling

Training

Shovels

Rubbers

Tarps

Whiskey

 

And a host of other things you will certanly need long before you have to raid a location with tons of .223 and no means to fire it in the midst of a Zombie horde sweeping the Earth.

 

Just MHO.

Edited by Captain No Problem
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So in this apocalyptic scenario where one can scrounge .223, there are apparently no .223 rifles laying about to be scrounged themselves?

 

Frankly if all this S does indeed HTF, I doubt people will be any less interested in keeping and aquiring ammo than they are in the rifles to shoot it. Meaning that if you're planning on scrounging .223, you are pretty much planning on scrounging .223 rifles as well. I dont picture someone a) having a pile of .223 and no means to shoot it sitting around or b ) people seeing a .223 rifle laying there and then leaving the ammo behind for someone else to find.

 

"Hey look guys! An AR! Grab it! But leave all that ammo. We already have plenty. Some guy with another .223 rifle will come along for it. We have all we need from that arsenal we raided that had tons of .223 and no guns."

 

Seems unlikely.

 

5.45 is fun to shoot, cheap, powerful, and accurate. If your primary concern is SHTF, I humbly suggest the money you save on ammo can go to:

 

Food

Water Purification

Wool Socks

Card Games

Medical Supplies

Cherry Pie Filling

Training

Shovels

Rubbers

Tarps

Whiskey

 

And a host of other things you will certanly need long before you have to raid a location with tons of .223 and no means to fire it in the midst of a Zombie horde sweeping the Earth.

 

Just MHO.

 

 

 

+ 1,000,000

 

5.45 For the win

 

End 223 argument

 

 

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I voted 5.45. As much as I love my .223, mags are always going to be a pain in the rear end. But if you have an AR you could do the AR adapter...

 

I just made up my mind that I'll be doing the AR adapter. I don't have an AR yet, but plan to so I figured "WTH".

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wow. i didnt know this was still ongoing. tisk tisk tisk.

 

well im going to say this again. you are most likely not going to find anything in a shtf sitaution, except what you already have. and all this talk of dead cops and shit like that, well thats all fine and dandy to think, but what makes you think that those who killed the cops would just leave the ammo or weapons lying around?

 

im not saying you wouldnt find anything, but lets be honest, this more than likely isnt going to be the walking dead scenario where we would be free to roam and pilage whatever places we see fit with no resistance.

 

if your looking to resupply, stock up on some bartering assets. this will more than likely go further than hoping to scavenge from the fallen. i have several hundred rounds on hand for calibers i dont even own weapons for, just for this purpose.

 

just my opinion.

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+1 saving ammo for calibers you don't have.

 

I keep ammo from guns I've sold.

 

I recently sold my 1911 but I kept the 250+ rounds of ammo and misc. spare parts as I will likely own another, and because .45 could be very handy/valuable post SHTF, same with a .308 I sold, rifle is gone, but I kept the ammo.

 

We find a lot of misc ammo at my work, a few .223, half a box of 7mm mag, 30-30 etc, etc, so I save it all in my "assorted ammo" box becuase you never know when half a box of 7mm mag could be important.

 

Small gun parts and magazines are another nice thing to hang on to.

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+1 saving ammo for calibers you don't have.

 

I keep ammo from guns I've sold.

 

I recently sold my 1911 but I kept the 250+ rounds of ammo and misc. spare parts as I will likely own another, and because .45 could be very handy/valuable post SHTF, same with a .308 I sold, rifle is gone, but I kept the ammo.

 

We find a lot of misc ammo at my work, a few .223, half a box of 7mm mag, 30-30 etc, etc, so I save it all in my "assorted ammo" box becuase you never know when half a box of 7mm mag could be important.

 

Small gun parts and magazines are another nice thing to hang on to.

 

I wanna work somewhere that I stumble upon ammo!!!

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Can the 5.45 run the most commonly had magazine type in the US market/arsenal with a simple add on part?

 

post-20073-0-76124900-1335305972.jpg

 

Game changer. Can't believe it wasn't already mentioned. Compatability with police and military, as well as common AR platforms... In addition to a host of available mags.

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I went with 7.62x39 and .223/5.56. Both AKs. that way I can run brass or steel cases. All this talk about 5.45s though makes me want to get and SGL 31-94. ammo is really cheap for the time being but is corrosive, which isnt a problem if you clean your guns after shooting. Ill probably just stick with the two calibers though. makes life alittle more simple. currently have x39, .223/5.56 in rifles, and .45, 9mm, and .22lr in pistol ammo. Those are my calibers. good luck with your decision. Any one you choose im sure will be more than beneficial to you.

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+1 saving ammo for calibers you don't have.

 

I keep ammo from guns I've sold.

 

I recently sold my 1911 but I kept the 250+ rounds of ammo and misc. spare parts as I will likely own another, and because .45 could be very handy/valuable post SHTF, same with a .308 I sold, rifle is gone, but I kept the ammo.

 

We find a lot of misc ammo at my work, a few .223, half a box of 7mm mag, 30-30 etc, etc, so I save it all in my "assorted ammo" box becuase you never know when half a box of 7mm mag could be important.

 

Small gun parts and magazines are another nice thing to hang on to.

 

I wanna work somewhere that I stumble upon ammo!!!

 

unfortunately the quantities are small

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So in this apocalyptic scenario where one can scrounge .223, there are apparently no .223 rifles laying about to be scrounged themselves?

 

Frankly if all this S does indeed HTF, I doubt people will be any less interested in keeping and aquiring ammo than they are in the rifles to shoot it. Meaning that if you're planning on scrounging .223, you are pretty much planning on scrounging .223 rifles as well. I dont picture someone a) having a pile of .223 and no means to shoot it sitting around or b ) people seeing a .223 rifle laying there and then leaving the ammo behind for someone else to find.

 

"Hey look guys! An AR! Grab it! But leave all that ammo. We already have plenty. Some guy with another .223 rifle will come along for it. We have all we need from that arsenal we raided that had tons of .223 and no guns."

 

Seems unlikely.

 

5.45 is fun to shoot, cheap, powerful, and accurate. If your primary concern is SHTF, I humbly suggest the money you save on ammo can go to:

 

Food

Water Purification

Wool Socks

Card Games

Medical Supplies

Cherry Pie Filling

Training

Shovels

Rubbers

Tarps

Whiskey

 

And a host of other things you will certanly need long before you have to raid a location with tons of .223 and no means to fire it in the midst of a Zombie horde sweeping the Earth.

 

Just MHO.

I had to laugh when I read this because it is SOOO true! I have to chuckle when people get all crazy with the SHTF senarios, as if they alone would survive with only their weapons. If such a situation would accur, where there is ammo, there will likely be rifles to shoot it. You could always take one off the other guy who thought he alone would survive haha. I'm sure you'd run into "other people" who didn't make it, who have left behind far better weapons than you have, so you're going to lug around thousands of rounds for a weapon when there's better ones around? That's what makes me chuckle!

I live in a city, so I'm doomed anyway. There's no way I'm dishing out loads of $ for a rifle just to leave it on my dead body for the next guy to survive a few hours with. The AK, for me, is a cheap/reliable weapon simply to give me a fighting chance, not the end-all-be-all weapon (pleny of other "would be" survivors will leave better ones behind). Living in a city, I'm not naive enough to believe I'd survive that long... I just want to put up a good fight if it ever happened :-)

As for caliber... I'd say "run whatever. Stock up a REASONABLE amount that YOU could use/move. If you survive long enough to USE that supply... there would be pleny of others who DIDN'T that you could procure ammo/weapons from".

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