TARE 47 Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 Other than the prohibitive cost gain in flash and loss of velocity, are there any other downsides to getting a SBR or SBS? I'm more concerned about legal ramifications, like if after you get the stamp for a SBS do you get random visits to check on the SBS/SBR? Travel is likely limited based on state laws, but what can you tell me about the hassles that aren't obvious. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sunnybean 939 Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 Biggest complaint is the cost. Sell one out of state and you're looking at $400 in taxes. Sometimes a seller will pay the first tax, sometimes not. The time it takes for approval is a hindrance to some. I get tired of trying to explain to the fuses at the range that, "yes it is legal...wanna shoot it?". Your question about random visits from the man are just myths. Owning NFA does not forfeit any of your rights. That said, you should always have a copy of your paperwork along with the item as it would/could help if someone wants to start asking you questions. On the travel side, yes you need to get approval from batfe before you cross state lines. The form you use is good for a year and you can list multiple weapons and multiple states on it. That reminds me, new year I need to get on this. Do it! 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TARE 47 Posted December 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 Thanks sunnybean, good information. Your saying the form for travel is good for a year right? I understand that the form to SBR/SBS is a one time purchase and filing, and in state use would only require that original form, correct? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
1mile50 102 Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 (edited) Other than the prohibitive cost gain in flash and loss of velocity, are there any other downsides to getting a SBR or SBS? I'm more concerned about legal ramifications, like if after you get the stamp for a SBS do you get random visits to check on the SBS/SBR? Travel is likely limited based on state laws, but what can you tell me about the hassles that aren't obvious. You could get a suppressor for your SBR, that will take care of most of the increased muzzle flash. Look into a caliber that minimizes velocity loss, such as the 300 BLK. I just tested my new 300 BLK upper today. I will be submitting a Form 1 for the lower that I'm using it on, and a Form 4 for the suppressor, soon. Edited December 31, 2011 by 1mile50 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sunnybean 939 Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 (edited) Yes, that is right. The Form 1 (to make...make a Draco pistol into an SBR) or a Form 4 (to transfer...you buy an already made item) are good as long as you own the item. A Form 5320.20 is for temporary Interstate transfer and only good for 12 months. Multiple items and multiple states can be listed on one form. There is no tax/fees for this. The batfe just wants to know, and possibly advise you, of an illegal state/area in which you may want to travel. Another PITA with NFA is that the maker's (whoever files the Form 1) name, city and state must be engraved into the item. So, your item may be less desirable to others when selling as it has your, or someone else's, info on it. Be aware that the market for used suppressors is very limited. Not many people want a used can because the lifecycle is shortened and more importantly the $400 in taxes (if sold out of state) is cost prohibitive. Edited December 31, 2011 by sunnybean Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kevin.rose0@gmail.com 62 Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 Can you link to an example of a form 20 with multiple states on it? I don't see how you fill it out for multiple states. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sunnybean 939 Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 Can you link to an example of a form 20 with multiple states on it? I don't see how you fill it out for multiple states. My bad! I usually only fill it out for one state. Brain fart I guess. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TARE 47 Posted January 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 (edited) You could get a suppressor for your SBR, that will take care of most of the increased muzzle flash. Look into a caliber that minimizes velocity loss, such as the 300 BLK. I just tested my new 300 BLK upper today. I will be submitting a Form 1 for the lower that I'm using it on, and a Form 4 for the suppressor, soon. VT doesn't allow silencers, but I'm fine with all of the negatives I had listed anyways. I was currently thinking more of turning a saiga 12 I own into a SBS, but wanted to know for future reference how it pertains to SBR. Down the road I want to turn an AKM to a SBR Edited January 3, 2012 by TARE Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MAAnew 162 Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 The only downside with purchasing a SBS is waiting for Tony's waiting list to open. A lot of people think that ATF can come into your home to look at or for your NFA items whenever they want, but they cannot come into your house without a search warrant. If they come to your house, kindly tell them to come back with a search warrant and unless they have probable cause to obtain one, they will not be back. The ATF does not have the resources to come check on every individual with NFA items, so unless you have done something with your NFA items that you shouldn't have, you will probably never know that ATF exists after you purchase the item, unless you ever decide to sell it. As a business owner, they can come search your premises at any time for a surprise inspection, but they cannot do that with individuals unless they have probable cause to obtain a search warrant and a judge agrees to issue a search warrant. Other than the prohibitive cost gain in flash and loss of velocity, are there any other downsides to getting a SBR or SBS? I'm more concerned about legal ramifications, like if after you get the stamp for a SBS do you get random visits to check on the SBS/SBR? Travel is likely limited based on state laws, but what can you tell me about the hassles that aren't obvious. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Scott Kenny 144 Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 The only other minor headache is the special storage requirements. If you're married, I would strongly suggest a trust, so that you can keep all the guns in ONE safe. Otherwise, even your wife cannot have the combination to the separate safe that the NFA toys are stored in. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
headshot 52 Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 ZERO downsides to it. The only thing I can think of is selling your SBR sucks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TonyRumore 1,332 Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 The 5320.20 for is also used for Permanent out of state moves, not just temporary moves. Tony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tunnelrat 10 Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 A lot of people think that ATF can come into your home to look at or for your NFA items whenever they want, but they cannot come into your house without a search warrant. If they come to your house, kindly tell them to come back with a search warrant and unless they have probable cause to obtain one, they will not be back. The ATF does not have the resources to come check on every individual with NFA items, so unless you have done something with your NFA items that you shouldn't have, you will probably never know that ATF exists after you purchase the item, unless you ever decide to sell it. As a business owner, they can come search your premises at any time for a surprise inspection, but they cannot do that with individuals unless they have probable cause to obtain a search warrant and a judge agrees to issue a search warrant. I've owned Form 1 mgs and DD's for 30+ years...never seen or heard from 'em. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sitkashooter 1 Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 The only other minor headache is the special storage requirements. If you're married, I would strongly suggest a trust, so that you can keep all the guns in ONE safe. Otherwise, even your wife cannot have the combination to the separate safe that the NFA toys are stored in. except for the fact there are no special storage requirements. this is another myth. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kevin.rose0@gmail.com 62 Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) except for the fact there are no special storage requirements. this is another myth. Allowing someone to use or access an NFA weapon without the physical presence of the person whose name appears on the Form 1 or form 4 is an ilegal transfer according to the US DoJ. So no, there is no requirement to secure it from anyone else who you permit to have access to your belonging as long as you don't mind going to jail for 10 years and having all your guns taken away forever when you get caught. Edited March 22, 2012 by KevinInNM Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sitkashooter 1 Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) atf have recommendations about how to store them to keep others from using them, but its not law. if someone takes (or steals) an NFA item, you WILL NOT go to prison for 10 years for an illegal transfer. if i have my MGs and SBRs in my house and my house is locked... well, thats pretty secure. even more secure is putting them in a safe. what if the thief has a hand truck? or maybe a circular saw? guess its prison time for 10 years for an illegal transfer? how about at the range. if i have multiple NFA toys on the bench, am i required to carry EVERY SINGLE ONE down range with me in case someone grabs one and runs? oops, another illegal transfer! NFA owners do need to be smart about where they leave items (unlike the guy who stashed his can in a toolbox and the toolbox fell outta the bed of his truck) but as far as criminal charges go for this type of thing? nope, won't and has not happened. as always, ymmv Edited March 23, 2012 by sitkashooter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kevin.rose0@gmail.com 62 Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 Theft isn't permitting someone to possess the firearm. David Olofson probably wishes he hadn't lent that rifle out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sitkashooter 1 Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) good point. thing is, david olofson had the parts in his rifle that he sholudn't have had. he did NOT have a registered MG... does change things quite a bit. fact of the matter is, if you are responsible with your NFA items (as you should be with any firearms), then this should not ever be an issue. Edited March 23, 2012 by sitkashooter 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mike12345 18 Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 one big downside is that you need to get paperwork approved if your moving out of state. Then some states dont allow certain NFA weapons, so you may have to sell and transfer a gun if you need to move. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kevin.rose0@gmail.com 62 Posted March 30, 2012 Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 You don't need approval to move (permantly change residences) with it. You need to file paperwork, but you can just file and move. To travel with a SBR/SBS/MG out of state does require an approved fom 20. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Joseph 141 Posted April 4, 2012 Report Share Posted April 4, 2012 (edited) i love all the posts of how there is " NO POSSIBLE DOWNSIDE" other than wait lists ( which are indeed a mild annoyance) and the outrageous cost (2k for a saiga12 ??!?!?!?!?!?!) but you have got to be constantly filing forms with the ATF, sorry but to like 95% of people thats a pretty serious downside. i don't exatly want to fax a road map to my house every few years to the ATF. i get the dealers who don't care because they are already on the super short list in terms of undesireables to be eliminated but how about the other 90 million gun owners Edited April 4, 2012 by ZombieJefferson Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Scott Kenny 144 Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 Uhhh... and how many guns have you bought from a dealer at your current residence? The purchase paperwork for has your current address on it. If ATF really got bored, they could reconstruct most of your housing ever since your first purchase. NFA is a different branch of ATF, and the right hand never knows what the left hand is doing. It's no different from my having to tell the FAA where I live because I have an aircraft mechanic's license (even though I don't fix planes anymore). With rights come responsibilities. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
headshot 52 Posted April 14, 2012 Report Share Posted April 14, 2012 i love all the posts of how there is " NO POSSIBLE DOWNSIDE" other than wait lists ( which are indeed a mild annoyance) and the outrageous cost (2k for a saiga12 ??!?!?!?!?!?!) but you have got to be constantly filing forms with the ATF, sorry but to like 95% of people thats a pretty serious downside. i don't exatly want to fax a road map to my house every few years to the ATF. i get the dealers who don't care because they are already on the super short list in terms of undesireables to be eliminated but how about the other 90 million gun owners Constantly filing forms? What are you talking about? Whatever it is, you are most likely mistaken. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
madmax4x4 68 Posted April 14, 2012 Report Share Posted April 14, 2012 i love all the posts of how there is " NO POSSIBLE DOWNSIDE" other than wait lists ( which are indeed a mild annoyance) and the outrageous cost (2k for a saiga12 ??!?!?!?!?!?!) but you have got to be constantly filing forms with the ATF, sorry but to like 95% of people thats a pretty serious downside. i don't exatly want to fax a road map to my house every few years to the ATF. i get the dealers who don't care because they are already on the super short list in terms of undesireables to be eliminated but how about the other 90 million gun owners Constantly filing forms? What are you talking about? Whatever it is, you are most likely mistaken. He is right about constantly filing forms. I'm going to have to stop buying NFA items Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sunnybean 939 Posted April 15, 2012 Report Share Posted April 15, 2012 Talk about the Energizer bunny... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Joseph 141 Posted April 15, 2012 Report Share Posted April 15, 2012 (edited) Well not constantly but just you know, every time you want to move, or sell your gun. or every time you want a new gun. so basically every 5-10 years unless you have a set in stone residence. i like to move around every 5-10 years so yeah YMMV. again though- Cost, waiting, filing forums, can't have them in many states, on yet another watch list = no possible downside? and i could bring in less muzzle velocity but why bother there are defiantly downsides and few if any real upsides other than cool factor, unless you're a professional ninja or something Edited April 15, 2012 by ZombieJefferson Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shandlanos 1,470 Posted April 16, 2012 Report Share Posted April 16, 2012 Well not constantly but just you know, every time you want to move, or sell your gun. or every time you want a new gun. so basically every 5-10 years unless you have a set in stone residence. i like to move around every 5-10 years so yeah YMMV. again though- Cost, waiting, filing forums, can't have them in many states, on yet another watch list = no possible downside? and i could bring in less muzzle velocity but why bother there are defiantly downsides and few if any real upsides other than cool factor, unless you're a professional ninja or something So, only a ninja needs a short-barreled firearm? Goddamn ninjas, BAN THEM, BAN THEM ALL! A short-barreled rifle or shotgun is an excellent home defense tool, for the same reason a handgun is. A proper SBR can do everything a handgun can, with more stability and accuracy. An MP5 SBR makes a great home defense rifle. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MAAnew 162 Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 You won't be allowed to visit or move to California, New York, or New Jersey with your SBS or SBR..... Other than the prohibitive cost gain in flash and loss of velocity, are there any other downsides to getting a SBR or SBS? I'm more concerned about legal ramifications, like if after you get the stamp for a SBS do you get random visits to check on the SBS/SBR? Travel is likely limited based on state laws, but what can you tell me about the hassles that aren't obvious. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
1mile50 102 Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 You won't be allowed to visit or move to California, New York, or New Jersey with your SBS or SBR..... Other than the prohibitive cost gain in flash and loss of velocity, are there any other downsides to getting a SBR or SBS? I'm more concerned about legal ramifications, like if after you get the stamp for a SBS do you get random visits to check on the SBS/SBR? Travel is likely limited based on state laws, but what can you tell me about the hassles that aren't obvious. No offense to anyone here intended, but I would not live in any one of those states, if someone set me up there with a house and a high paying guaranteed job for life. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MCASgt New River 10,036 Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 You won't be allowed to visit or move to California, New York, or New Jersey with your SBS or SBR..... Other than the prohibitive cost gain in flash and loss of velocity, are there any other downsides to getting a SBR or SBS? I'm more concerned about legal ramifications, like if after you get the stamp for a SBS do you get random visits to check on the SBS/SBR? Travel is likely limited based on state laws, but what can you tell me about the hassles that aren't obvious. No offense to anyone here intended, but I would not live in any one of those states, if someone set me up there with a house and a high paying guaranteed job for life. Born and raised in the Peoples Republik of Kommiefornia.....NEVER WILL I GO BACK!! Well, unless under Orders and even then I will store all my toys here in beautiful, free Arizona. Semper Fi, Gunny Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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