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Lately I've been seeing a lot of threads on, "What do I need, why do I need it, and why can't I..?"

It's great that this forum's members are able to help each other out (personally my favorite part) but it seems that many of these threads are practically identical. It's also great that new guys want to learn: This is the right place! All the information is here, it's just scattered around and takes awhile to find. So I post this not in the spirit of killing the Q&A sessions, but rather to condense the information that is floating around.

 

This is not intended to be a tutorial: There are already a number of excellent ones on here. This is more of a "Buyer's Guide" than anything else.

 

Also, throughout this thread, I will be mentioning Carolina Shooters Supply a lot. This is not intended to be an advertising plug, I have just had many positive experiences with this company and they do have a lot of easy-to-use products. They also have some excellent videos on their site if you are looking for a step-by-step tutorial.

 

Ok, so you've got your Saiga-12 in-hand and are determined to put a pistol grip on it. You've done a little research and have some plans rolling around but you've hit a snag. I'll do my best to knock out as many of your questions as I can.

 

Stock options:

"Can I just leave the factory buttstock on there?"

Yes, you can.. You wouldn't be the first. It may even be a good idea if you don't have the funds or just can't pick a stock, yet have your heart set on getting this thing going.

"So what else can I do?" The sky's the limit. That, and your checking account.

  • AR-Style stocks.

There are several ways to do this. AK and AR are not compatible, so you will need some sort of adapter.

  1. There is an option to cut the receiver tang and mount a "Pignose" adapter (even a folder if you want.) Just make sure you have a castle nut to secure the buffer tube to the adapter.
     
  2. You can leave the tang alone and get a buffer-tube which can be accepted by the AK receiver.
     
  3. You can use either a weld-on back plate or a bolt-on internal receiver block and buy a bolt-on adapter for the buffer tube. Both require cutting the tang.

  • Tromix, DPH, ACE, and RJF skeleton stocks

There are two options I am aware of.

  1. Weld-on back plate and bolt it on.
     
  2. Internal receiver block and bolt it on.

Again, the tang must go bye-bye.

  • Standard AK stocks

You can use an AK stock as long as you bear in mind that you have a stamped receiver. The difference is that while some AK receivers are milled out of a block and have tighter tolerances, the body of your gun was a sheet of steel that got crushed into that shape. With a process like this, the steel can only be so thick and will not always retain the intended dimensions. All of that to say this: If the stock you want is intended for use in milled receivers, it will probably be too small to fit securely.

 

Fire Control Group: (FCG)

Ok, if you've glanced at the internals on your gun, you can see that you can't re-use much of anything. You're going to keep your axis pins, mainspring, and maybe the BHO (more on that in a bit.) So what exactly do you need? Obviously, a new fire control group. The most popular is the Tapco G2.

  • "What's a G2?"

It is a standard AK FCG made by Tapco that can be used to replace the neutered version you acquired.

  • "But I read that you can't use a regular G2?"

This is true. You can modify it yourself or buy a pre-modified FCG. CSS has the Tromix modified G2s and I highly recommend this option.

  • "Single hook or double hook and why?"

Right now, your Saiga receiver is only capable of supporting a single hook. A small cut can be made in the receiver or the bottom of the ejection-side hook (usually with a dremel) if you must have the double-hook. However, it's completely personal preference. The theory is that a second hook can take over if the first one breaks. Kalashnikov didn't put it there, so I personally don't feel the need for it. Some guys do. Whatever floats your boat...

  • "Are there any other options?"

There is another FCG made by Arsenal which I understand to be of slightly higher quality, as well as a few others, but the vast majority of S12 owners are rocking that G2.

Pauly's Steelin' Custom Fabrication now offers a 'match trigger' http://forum.saiga-1...trigger-groovy/ which is a G2 with Pauly's magic touch.

 

Shepard's Crook vs. Retaining Plate

Once you have installed your FCG, something has to hold it in place. Look at your axis pins on the non-ejection side. See that second 'step' in the pin? That exists to allow you to secure the pins. Otherwise, they would simply fall out. So you have the option of using:

  1. A "Shepard's Crook" retaining spring.
  2. A retaining plate. For the S12, a modified version is required and readily available.

The difference? Personal preference. Most people have stated that the retaining plate is way easier. A lot of guys prefer the wire. It's up to you, the firearm owner, to decide which is best for you.

Installation instructions:

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/67994-pins-falling-out/page__p__657718__hl__+shepards%20+crook__fromsearch__1&do=findComment&comment=657718

 

Bolt-Hold-Open: (BHO)

Some guys keep it, some pitch it. Why? Those who keep it want the ability to lock their bolt carrier in the "Open Bolt" position. This is great for safety at the range, hunting, quick inspection, etc. Those who pitch it are of the mindset that it's just one more thing that can go wrong.

  • If you decide to pitch it:

You will have a gap on the side of your hammer where it used to be. It should not be a problem but if it is, shim it with a washer.

  • If you decide to keep it, you have two options:

  1. Buy a modified BHO. It will have a notch in it to accommodate the safety. Also buy some spare springs for it. They have a tendancy to warp themselves into alternate dimensions during disassembly.
     
  2. Re-use your stock one and make the cut yourself.

"Why do I have to modify it?"

Unfortunately, once you tear your gun apart for the conversion, the BHO will forever block the hole in the receiver that the safety must pass through.

 

Trigger Guard

Many, many options here.

Just off the top of my head.

Now, some trigger guards out there (like the CSS billet) will have a spot for mounting your grip directly to them, thus negating the need for a grip nut (which saves time and kicks ass!) You will need to take this into consideration when selecting a grip. JT Engineering even makes one that allows the use of an AR-style grip.

Don't forget the safety stop! That little nub sticking out from the side if the trigger guard is pretty important. Without it, nothing stops the safety from flipping down past the receiver. You can hack it off and re-use it, but most trigger guards will come with one if you are ordering for the S12.

 

Pistol Grips

Generally, any AK grip is going to fit your gun, it just becomes a matter of how? I believe some older S12's have a square hole underneath the trigger pate and right behind the FCG cut-out. Please note that I said square. They all have the rectangular cut-out in the rear where the factory trigger originally protruded. If you have this square, you may use a "grip nut." This is a small, threaded block with angled flanges that can drop through the receiver and be bolted to your grip of choice. If you do not, you may follow these prints: http://forum.saiga-1...stol-grip-hole/ (+1 to KC913 for this) to create one, or find an alternate method of attachment. The trigger guards that allow you to bolt your grip directly to them have got to be the easiest way. Any further ideas on this would be most welcome, so chime in guys.

 

Mounting Hardware (for the pistol grip)

You can buy this stuff with your order, but I've learned a few things.

  1. The guys who pull your order don't question what you've ordered. Don't expect someone to stop as they are packing your box and say, "Hey, this bolt won't be long enough for this grip he ordered. I'd better drop everything and call this guy!" If it's not compatible, they probably won't care, even if they do notice. Not trying to insult anybody- I just know how it goes sometimes.
  2. You are custom-building an AK. Badass? Yes. Free from the confines of Murphy's law? Sadly, no. Your combination of grip, bolt, and mounting method may not be compatible. Even the stock can come into play (it may stick through the rear of the receiver far enough to block part of the hole you need to use.)
  3. Hardware is cheap and readily available. Sometimes you're better off getting all the big stuff now and making a run to the hardware store later.

"What am I supposed to use then?"

Standard AK bolts are 6x1.0mm and have a straight slot for a flathead screwdriver. I prefer to use a Socket Head Cap Screw (SHCS)

For those not familiar with bolt and thread sizes, (I know you're out there) I'll break it down for you.

Basically, the first number (6, in this case) is the diameter of the bolt, proceeded by the thread pitch (size.)

So you need a metric bolt 6x1. The length? Well, that depends on what the bolt is threading through and into. The Tapco SAW grip needs a bolt of about 16mm for use with any conventional mount. Most standard grips need between 85 and 95mm long bolts. I just said to hell with it, went to Fastenal, and picked up a bunch of them at 100mm (item # 39580 for those interested in this route.) They can be cut to length and cleaned up with a grinder and/or file so that the first thread can still start easily. A SHCS may not work without enlarging the hole, though. It all depends on just how much time you are willing to invest in this project.

 

Don't forget washers! Most grips are made for a narrow machine screw with a small head which requires a washer to keep tension on the grip. You may also want to use a split lockwasher or a star washer to really secure that sucker.

 

Loctite® either 242 (blue) or 271 (red) is recommended to secure all mounting hardware.

"What's the difference?"

  • Blue: Removable with brute force after it has set.
  • Red: Requires heat (250 degrees recommended) to remove once it has set

Threadlocker has a drying time of 30 minutes. This means two things:

  1. You have 30 minutes to install your parts. If you put it on and wait any longer than that, you must reapply it.
  2. Once it's applied and the bolts are tight, don't mess with it for 30 minutes! I know you want to check the fit, but you should do that before you apply a thread locking compound. Always good to do a complete test-assembly, then disassemble and apply threadlocker, then reassemble.

Gas Piston

This is another preference deal. Some will swear by this brand or that brand. Some will swear at both. Besides 922r compliance, there seldom is a need to change it at all. Well, beyond the compulsion most of us feel to upgrade everything we own...

 

Reprofiling, polishing, drilling the ports, etc.

These may become necessary later on, but one thing I've heard many times: Only change one thing at a time. If you make one change and your gun has an issue, you know where to start. Make twenty changes and you'll be doing a lot of guessing.

If you're ill-equipped or not confident enough in your abilites to do the reliabilty mods, I recommend one of the forum's business members. Trade some money for quality, guaranteed work and peace of mind.

 

New guys, there are literally hundreds of threads on all of these subjects, so keep digging: There's always more to learn.

Experinced members, thank you for all the lessons you have conveyed to us young-uns!

Edited by JonnyDingDongs
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Good job. This is overdue. MAA also has lightning fast shipping and about equal prices to CSS on most items.

 

It would be worthwhile to add Red Star Arms S-12 adjustable trigger, and MAA stock to the ace compatible section.

 

Also a brief list of things that screw on the end, i.e.

Many things call themselves a brake that aren't really. A true break on a rifle has a constriction that grips the projectile. Shotgun brakes are really compensators that vector gas to reduces muzzle flip and/or recoil. Some devices have compensation, looks, and door breaching. Others may offer choke and compensation.

 

Functional:

Chokes:

OEM from Izhmash

SGM

AK Builder/ Cobra Winchoke adapters

Polychokes

Having a shop ream and thread your barrel for Remchokes or Winchokes

 

Brakes or Compensators (most do only moderate recoil reduction):

 

Tromix: Shark, Monster, Competition.

JTE: Competition

RJF: Mojo

SGM: various cutts styles that may have minimal effects.

Molot: low production hard to find, but effective $$$

DPH: pheonix

Chaos: Wave, Warthog.

 

Mid-barrel compensators: Very effective, likely to need gas service.

Not really DIY: Firebird, Dreadnought

 

Looks (and maybe breaching)

SGM: most

Factory Flash hiders, and those made to look similar: Tromix, DPH, MD

Various thread protectors

Edited by GunFun
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In a month or so after some dust settles, maybe add a magwell list too.

 

Ishmash: Factory, plastic, magazines are hard to find

 

Molot: Similar to Izzy, but metal.

 

JTE: Aluminum, the first. Has AGP, Surefire (SGM), and pending model that takes drums and unmodified magazines. Current Gen 4 model uses SGM magazines.

 

SGM: Plastic magwell internally similiar to JTE, visually similar to Ishmash. Uses modified SGM mags. compatable with JTE

 

Tac 47. Integrated trigger guard, Uses modified SGM magazine, not compatable with JTE, held by side rib.

 

R&R: Race part. Modified SGM mags, holds more of the magazine body, fits looser. Very fast.

Edited by GunFun
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You could add the external reciever block for the ace style stocks. Its ugly but allows you to leave the tang. http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-346/Ace-Saiga-External-Block/Detail

 

Ah, I knew I forgot at least one option. Excellent, thank you!

 

I just wanted to add that the shipping at CSS is incredibly fast! It's almost as if they read your mind and ship it two or three days before you made your order!

 

Yeah, Greg rocks!! The road I live on actually has three different names (it's been owned by the city, state, and county) and not all postal software accepts the name I generally use. I ordered late one night and forgot about this. Then Greg calls me first thing the next morning to clear it up and two days later, I've got a box of fun stuff in my mailbox.

 

GunFun: Awesome! How the hell did I leave out muzzle devices? I don't know a whole lot about the magwells, but your little overview there should really help guys find the features they want.

I'm hoping to get some time later this week and get links thrown in there for more specific information as well as a few tutorials.

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You need to add in RSA trigger and correct your comments on double hooks to note that many use them because they can be easily modified for an over travel stop.

 

Also milled receivers don't just have different tolerances, the shape of the stock is completely different.

 

If you included a comprehensive and unbiased list of forearms, I think this would be about sticky worthy.

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your comments on double hooks to note that many use them because they can be easily modified for an over travel stop.

 

Not to mention the original design did have a double hook. It was later modified to make room for the rate reducer.

Mine have double hooks, because I like a back up feature.

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