bruh44 4 Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 (edited) I so I picked up this S12 about a year and a half ago from one of the companies thats a suporter here. They made a great gun, but the finish was terrible. The gun ran 100%. I told them I wasn't happy with the finish, the owner said send it it, I'll fix it. About six months after I sent it back to get refinished I was starting to get pretty pissed about it. He said he would add some things to the gun to make up for the time. After about nine months when I threatened to sue him, I got the gun back with a crappier paint job than the first one. I got some money out of him to get it refinished and sent it off to Tim at Gewehrwerks Who actually knows how to paint and handle things in a reasonable time frame. The gun looks great now, but I took it to the range the other day and in the lowest gas setting it will barely cycle 1oz. slugs. I know since it's been refinished it needs to be broken in again, but it won't cycle 00 buck at all. I tried an aftermarket gas plug, and puck, but the factory seems to work best. What else can I do to get this to run on anything lighter than slugs? One of the additions what a thicker piston so I'm wondering if that has something to do with it. Edited January 9, 2012 by bruh44 : link to nonvendor removed Quote Link to post Share on other sites
robfromga 39 Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 What's it doing? Fte? Did they paint the inside of the receiver? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bruh44 4 Posted January 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 (edited) The inside of the reciever was painted. It was parkerized then duracoated. The empty shells don't eject out of the chamber. The slugs took a few rounds to get them to cycle. I've been working the action for two days now. I'm hoping it helps. I can't imagine paint would stop a 00 buck round from cycling but I'm not sure. Edited January 8, 2012 by bruh44 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
YOT 3,743 Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 Your miracle man with the paint fucked it up by painting the inside. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bruh44 4 Posted January 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 Guess I'll get the dremmel and buffer attachement out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 (edited) Brake cleaner can help the paint removal process some. Dont go nuts with it, though. Im betting the mating points in the trigger group are all painted, and the friction is whats causing it. any chance you can get a CLEAR up close picture of the action with the hammer cocked and the bolt out of it? Check the locking point in the breech, as well as the bolt lugs for paint buildup as well... Edited January 8, 2012 by Ben Vampatella Quote Link to post Share on other sites
YOT 3,743 Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 DuraCoat is going to come off hard. I don't think brake cleaner will touch it and it will ruin plastic so be careful. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
robfromga 39 Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 Who paints the inside of a firearm? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 Does the new piston rattle? If NOT put a factory one back in it. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rileyknaphus 4 Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 I'll make sure to avoid gewerwerk. LOL Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 Who paints the inside of a firearm? Looks like a lot of "pros" do, LOL!!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
robfromga 39 Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 I guess so man. Very thoughtless! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 I guess so man. Very thoughtless! What was " Who paints the inside of a firearm? " supposed to do other than inspire a lighthearted moment? Cheer up. That would have made most people chuckle. OP, Unless you want to take the entire finish off with some sort of media blasting, buy some 400 grit sandpaper, buy a set of hobby files, and remove the paint from all bearing surfaces. It takes forever, I have done it. It is easier to just take the whole weapon back down to metal and start over, but some people do not want to pay to have it refinshed again, or in your case, a third time. I can't blame you if you don't want to "roll the dice" on it again with the potential to receive exactly what you already have or even worse. There may be other options. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fallschirmjager667 729 Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 painting the inside of a gun is like going to get a tan and trying to tan the inside of your ass Quote Link to post Share on other sites
robfromga 39 Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 It did. It just amazes me at the stuff people do, and think they are really doing right. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bridis 319 Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 WOW!!! A so called "professional" painted the inside of a gun? Crazy... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 It did. It just amazes me at the stuff people do, and think they are really doing right. I agree. I will put it in a nutshell.... "Attention to detail" is hard to profit from when most customers are shopping for "prices", not "quality".... Considering the prices that I see people refinishing for, it does not make good business sense to spend more than ~1.5 hours or so on it.Only so much attention to detail can be given in that amount of time. Sad, but true. WOW!!! A so called "professional" painted the inside of a gun? Crazy... It was a free bonus. He didn't have to paint the inside and went well above and beyond what was neccessary Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Eganx 4 Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) I have "painted" the inside of quite a few guns.......not with durakote though. If you have a spray on finish that cures to .5mils(or.0005") in thickness there should be no problem painting the inside of most firearms especially an AK variant. If you sand blast the gun to refinish why would you not do the inside????? Does the inside not need protection from the elements as well? A few finishes today offer increased dry lubricity......an added bonus to finishing the inside of your firearm. The paint used on Saigas is garbage. It is not solvent safe, and is applied in a fashion I would expect for a $500 gun from Russia. Now after the converting my S12, with added parts and labor it could be a $900 gun from America. I would prefer for it to look the part inside and out........enter Cerakote Edited January 9, 2012 by Eganx 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
robfromga 39 Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 That's nice. Paint the chamber too, it will decrease volume, increase presure and make it cycle better. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 I have seen the barrel hood and chamber Duracoated as well. It is an extreme pain to get it out without disturbing the surface of the metal. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
barely 5 Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 +1000 for Cerakote. My first experience with Cerakote has been with my S12 and I am very impressed. I gave the S12 to the painter completely disassembled and told him that I wanted everything coated. He did exactly what I asked, and I didn't notice any difference in how my firearm cycled. He even painted inside the gas block and my puc still slides easily when the gun is tilted. I did NOT give him the puc just in case you are wondering though.. FYI, "gun blast" is the strongest cleaner that I've used and it don't bother the Cerakote. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bruh44 4 Posted January 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) You think using a wire brush would be ok to start? I'm not sending this thing off again, It's been out of my possesion for about a year of the year and three months I've owned it. Edited January 9, 2012 by bruh44 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
barely 5 Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 If you didn't like the original "crappy" paint job, what do you think it will look like after you hit it with a wire brush to remove the duracoat? Just asking... I gave my un-assembled to a local Cerakote guy with $175 and he even sand blasted it down to bare metal. He would have had to charge more for disassembly/re-assembly, so I gladly broke it down into parts and zip-lock baggy parts with a complete breakdown list that he could reference to keep track of all the parts. Took about 10 days to get it back in the process and another afternoon for me to put it back together. Just something to consider... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Reverendfranz 160 Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 wire brush should work, just dont go nuts. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The_Caged_Bird 474 Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 I have "painted" the inside of quite a few guns.......not with durakote though. If you have a spray on finish that cures to .5mils(or.0005") in thickness there should be no problem painting the inside of most firearms especially an AK variant. If you sand blast the gun to refinish why would you not do the inside????? Does the inside not need protection from the elements as well? A few finishes today offer increased dry lubricity......an added bonus to finishing the inside of your firearm. The paint used on Saigas is garbage. It is not solvent safe, and is applied in a fashion I would expect for a $500 gun from Russia. Now after the converting my S12, with added parts and labor it could be a $900 gun from America. I would prefer for it to look the part inside and out........enter Cerakote We need a dislike button... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Eganx 4 Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) We need a dislike button... We need an education on finishing a firearm with a decent firearm finish and not thick paint such as duracoat So why would the factory finish the inside of a firearm if it hindered performance???? Edited January 10, 2012 by Eganx Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fallschirmjager667 729 Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 with added parts and labor it could be a $900 gun from America. a bushmaster? after painting the inside of your receiver i would expect it to run about as reliably as one Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gewehr Werks 2 Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Hello Brian, Your shotgun is covered by the best warranty in the industry. All Gewehr Werks builds are warranted for life. Our finishes are covered for one year against defect. GW covers shipping both directions. I want to add that your shotgun would never have been shipped in a un-working condition; but is wasn’t test fired. All firearms serviced by GW are test fired before shipping; but you didn’t include some of the parts including the bolt head and gas puck. I’m not disputing that there is a problem. I’m not bringing up the missing parts issue to cast blame, but we couldn’t test fire it without a bolt head and gas puck. GW accepts the blame and our customers are my only concern. We just need a complete firearm in order to test fire it. We have been doing full blown conversions on Saiga 12 shotguns for about 5 or 6 years numbering in the hundreds. Still GW would never say “we only had one dissatisfied customer; out of several hundred”. We will strip finish off your weapon and re-finish it at our expense. Please include all parts when you ship. GW absolutely finishes the interior of Saiga 12s just like the factory originals. All factory Saiga 12s are painted inside by the arms division of Izhmash, in Russia. By inside, I’m referring only to the receiver; not the chamber or the gas chamber up front. I want to make sure that the previous builder opened up the gas port in the barrel (your barrel was cut rather short for a standard port). An under gassed Saiga will have reliability issues with light loads regardless of gas plug being used. Under gassing in combination with excess paint inside receiver would definitely cause an issue like your experiencing. Excessive paint alone would also cause problems. So, you don’t need to use files, solvents or 400 grit sandpaper; just send it back to us and we will take care of you! Thank You, Tim Foreman Gewehr Werks gewehrwerks@earthlink.net 937-667-4605 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Eganx 4 Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 a bushmaster? after painting the inside of your receiver i would expect it to run about as reliably as one We are talking about an AK variant. An AK variant is the most reliable firearm in the world. The receiver can be half full of sand and still fire(don't know about an S12, but damn sure a 7.62 can). If I Cerakote the inside of the receiver, I tighten tolerances but .0005" a side.....for the mathematically challenged that is 5 ten thousandths of an inch. Are you aware of what a normal oil clearance (max/min/nominal) tolerance is on a typical bearing/journal in an engine? I guaran-damn-tee you if the max to min window of oil clearance is over .0005 in an engine .0005 won't make two shits of a difference in an AK. If a firearm has a paint on finish(may do these days) on the internals, you remove said finish with an abrasive blasting of your choice, and you replace the finish with one that is equal to or less than the thickness of the original finish, and provides more lubricity when dry than the original finish, reliability would be equal to or better than before the refinish. Maybe I am being misunderstood, I am not talking about using duracoat on the inside of a gun. Duracoat is too thick for an interior finish, I am specifically referring to Cerakote or Gunkote. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The_Caged_Bird 474 Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 We need a dislike button... We need an education on finishing a firearm with a decent firearm finish and not thick paint such as duracoat So why would the factory finish the inside of a firearm if it hindered performance???? Well, the factory does, and it does hinder performance, that's why one of the first and best things to do is polish the bolt, bolt carrier and receiver rails. The factory also mis-aligns the gas block, obstructs gas orifices, and sometimes installs the wrong gas plug... The factory also makes the bolt with extraneous material on it that hinders loading a full mag on a closed bolt. Look, you can strive to be as bad as the factory, and by-all-means, pass the vodka, but I prefer to have a running gun that has a crisp 4 lb trigger, cycles smooth like butter, and is able to be racked with one pinky. I have succeeded, here's to your success! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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