shadow13 0 Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 how good are these cost 479 converted also at classic arms Quote Link to post Share on other sites
VladTepes 160 Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) they are junk.. the fire control group is rigged up with some pin that is bent over some rivets.. I would not purchase one of those converted guns.. god only knows what other corners are cut.. Edited January 14, 2012 by vladtepes Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pjj342 632 Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 they are junk.. the fire control group is rigged up with some pin that is bent over some rivets.. I would not purchase one of those converted guns.. god only knows what other corners are cut.. If what you are saying is true, that is really sad. They build aks all the time, and its really not that hard to convert a saiga. It would probably only take one more man hour to build one correctly. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BillyBeamon 0 Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 Is this what you are talking about?? This is a classic arms conversion. That looks pretty snug on there. I can take it off tho. The Rivet is not coming out with regular use. Here is a pic of the tapco group Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BpS12 512 Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 I've got one of their RPKs and a couple hundred rounds thru it, no problems at all. Everything is tight and runs well. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
VladTepes 160 Posted January 15, 2012 Report Share Posted January 15, 2012 Is this what you are talking about?? This is a classic arms conversion. That looks pretty snug on there. I can take it off tho. The Rivet is not coming out with regular use. Here is a pic of the tapco group no it was way worse than that.. it was just bent over one of the rivets.. and looked like it could slide off at any moment.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pjj342 632 Posted January 15, 2012 Report Share Posted January 15, 2012 If it stays, cool. It looks like it may be a bitch to put back together. Thank goodness for retaining plates. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
VladTepes 160 Posted January 15, 2012 Report Share Posted January 15, 2012 If it stays, cool. It looks like it may be a bitch to put back together. Thank goodness for retaining plates. I guess that is my complaint.. an axis pin plate is like a $7 part? cheaper wholesale.. just use the plate and call it a day.. clips and bent wire to me is a cut corner.. one not worth having over such a small savings.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AlphaFive 0 Posted January 15, 2012 Report Share Posted January 15, 2012 (edited) Anyone have a picture of how a proper one should look? I've experienced one of these wires slipping off the trigger group about 40 rounds into the rifle.... Put it back in with a better angle and haven't had problems since. But certainly expected more from the rifle being an AK (and the [mostly] good reviews on Classic Arms conversions). Edited January 17, 2012 by AlphaFive Quote Link to post Share on other sites
leadchucker 12 Posted January 16, 2012 Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 Looks like one of the standard shepherd's crooks. They are a pain to put in and get out, but they work if you don't mangle them. I don't see a problem there. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
VladTepes 160 Posted January 16, 2012 Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 kind of like this... there is a plate.. plate wont slip.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pjj342 632 Posted January 16, 2012 Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 Looks like one of the standard shepherd's crooks. They are a pain to put in and get out, but they work if you don't mangle them. I don't see a problem there. Your damn right the shepards crook is a pain. They do work, but they suck to put back in. Im rather OCD about keeping my rifle clean and I remove the FCG every 4 or 5 range trips. I would struggle with the shepards crook and think it was normal. Once I got the plate, there was no more struggling. Fuck that wire retainer, get a plate, youll be happy you did. Its one part thats actually worth the money. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shadow13 0 Posted January 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 hey guys thanks for the replys could some one post an arsnel converson for us to see the diffrence my cia cnverson is rock solid the only diffrences i can see is bullet guide welded and rivets in old trigger group holes insted of being welded like arsnels Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AlphaFive 0 Posted January 16, 2012 Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 kind of like this... there is a plate.. plate wont slip.. Gotcha, thanks for posting! So that's not part of the ''G2'' assembly then? Considering you have solid metal where I have braided wire? Thoughts on tack welding the wire to the trigger? I don't like these kinds of things to be too perminant but reliability is also wanted. Or... Perhaps drilling a hole in the two trigger levers and threading the cable through? That would certainly prevent slippage. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fallschirmjager667 729 Posted January 16, 2012 Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 you wouldn't happen to be related to alpha one Quote Link to post Share on other sites
modrisco 16 Posted January 16, 2012 Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) Aren't there two separate items being discussed in this thread? The "braided" wire AlphaFive is refering to is the hammer spring which wraps around the Tapco G2 FCG. It provides the hammer tension once it's charged and is freed when the trigger is released. I would not under any circumstance consider welding it to the FCG, or drilling holes in the receiver to keep it in place. There are two hooks on the trigger spring, and each should wrap around the trigger; one on each side. The pin rigged up with the fire control group that vladtepes is referring to is indeed a Shephard's Crook, and is used to secure the FCG in place inside the receiver. It costs about $2. It's been around for a long, long time and is generally very reliable. I think the early AK47's and AKM's used there, and probably the AK74 family too. The modern retainer plate is easier to install/uninstall than a Shephed's Crook, costs about $7 and is just just as reliable, if not more so. That said, I generally replace the Shepherd's Crook on all my AK's with a retainer plate. P.S. The Arsenal SGL21-61 I bought in December 2010 came with a Shepherd's Crook installed, so if installing one is cutting corners, Century International Arms isn't the only one. Edited January 16, 2012 by modrisco Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AlphaFive 0 Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 you wouldn't happen to be related to alpha one Not as far as I know lol. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chevyman097 2,579 Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 Century is known for their.....well CRAP! I wouldnt keep one if it was free. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AlphaFive 0 Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) Century is known for their.....well CRAP! I wouldnt keep one if it was free. Disregard, sorry. Edited January 17, 2012 by AlphaFive Quote Link to post Share on other sites
arlan in arizona 1 Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 Century is known for their.....well CRAP! I wouldnt keep one if it was free. Gosh...I hate hearing that. I bought one a few days ago. Have only run 60 rounds through it but everything seems tight and right. Shoots a little high at 50 yards but I haven't touched the sites. Also, I haven't looked inside of it yet. Oh, and I paid more that the OP's listed price but not that much more. So far I like it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ShadowFire 220 Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 Looks like one of the standard shepherd's crooks. They are a pain to put in and get out, but they work if you don't mangle them. I don't see a problem there. Your damn right the shepards crook is a pain. They do work, but they suck to put back in.Im rather OCD about keeping my rifle clean and I remove the FCG every 4 or 5 range trips. I would struggle with the shepards crook and think it was normal. Once I got the plate, there was no more struggling. Fuck that wire retainer, get a plate, youll be happy you did. Its one part thats actually worth the money. If you're patient and have a pair of needle nose pliers, the Shepards Crook is freakin sweet. I use them on all my builds. There are tricks to it to make it less of a pain in the ass. Once you lean them all (mostly through trial and error), they're easy to install and uninstall. Why pay for a plate when most kits will include the crook? The crooks are very resistant, I've bruised a finger on one while learning. kind of like this... there is a plate.. plate wont slip.. Gotcha, thanks for posting! So that's not part of the ''G2'' assembly then? Considering you have solid metal where I have braided wire? Thoughts on tack welding the wire to the trigger? I don't like these kinds of things to be too perminant but reliability is also wanted. Or... Perhaps drilling a hole in the two trigger levers and threading the cable through? That would certainly prevent slippage. No it's not, plates cost extra. Century is known for their.....well CRAP! I wouldnt keep one if it was free. From what I've found, it depends on who you ask. I own 3 of them. Two have had well over 100 rounds through them and both go bang the first time and everytime. One is the infamous Tantal (a serial number within the problem area of potential keyholer) and it's had probably at least 500 rounds of corrosive steel cased imported ammo through it, fired out to 100 yard and nothing but nice circular holes in the targets. Most these days don't have the issues they used to. The finish they put on them is the most crappy thing about them, but then again, an all russian Saiga out of the box has a crappy finish too that disagrees with even gun cleaner. At least you have to grind on the sad excuse of a parkerizing job on a Century build to get it off, even if you only have to barely grind to do it. Now I'm sure I'll prolly end up starting people quoting me trying to defend their pov and their opinions having said these things. I wouldn't bother. This is what I know, it's not an attack on anybody. I'm with the RPK guy, all mine run just fine and I own more than one. That said, would I buy a Saiga? Oh yeah of coarse I would. Why? So I can do another project. I already own an S12 as it is, it's my favorite 12 gauge I have, crap finish and all. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
leadchucker 12 Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) Actually, CSS includes the plate in all the conversion kits I saw advertised, or at least they did. It came in mine. Funny thing, they also included a shepherds crook. Edited January 18, 2012 by leadchucker 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ShadowFire 220 Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 Actually, CSS includes the plate in all the conversion kits I saw advertised, or at least they did. It came in mine. Funny thing, they also included a shepherds crook. In light of that, that's prolly the best fcg "package" on the web. It's good that they include both, as it helps CSS offer what the user may want out of preference in one "package" deal. The whole crook or plate thing really is a preference deal. Just wanted to offer the perspective of someone who like the crook over the plate. People who are new to tinkering with Kalashnikovs need to know they're not totally trash, lol. They work and work well, either one, provided the guy "turning the wrench" uses or installs them properly. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chevyman097 2,579 Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) man over 100 rounds in an AK platform, i dont know what to say, im speachless! what a torture test! Im glad you have really broke them in to make sure they work. All anyone has to do it look around the internet and do a little google work. They will find all they need to know about Century. Hey folks have had good ones. But god forbid you get one of those made on firday or monday. Then have to deal with their customer service, that has such a better rep than the product they produce. Save yourself the trouble and buy a saiga sporter and have a 2 year old do a better conversion than Century, or just spend a few extra bucks and get an Arsenal. Edited January 18, 2012 by Chevyman097 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Redman92 4 Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 Just curious. Does the shepherd's crook come in the Saiga's from the factory? Are the Arsenals no good because they have shepherd's crooks? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BillyBeamon 0 Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 Save yourself the trouble and buy a saiga sporter and have a 2 year old do a better conversion than Century, or just spend a few extra bucks and get an Arsenal. So this is just for overall quality from Century? It was already stated that if you pick up an Arsenal that you still have to deal with the shepherds crook. And since it is not mentioned as much the Classic converson is not the same as the Century. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chevyman097 2,579 Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 Yes billy, It is that Century has had a very known reputation for terrible quality. some folks have had no problems with Century, more power to them. But imo, i cant trust a company that has such a known reputation for crap. Thats just me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ShadowFire 220 Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 See what I mean? Already attacking me for not dumping like 2000 rounds through my AK. I'm sorry I have not pleased him, ammo costs money and I'm not Bill Gates. You neglected to put in focus that I said I've put around 500 rounds of 5.45 through my tantal. Way not mention something so you can attempt to discredit, attack and redirect the focus back to your agenda. On the internet, they make Century sound aweful. But we've already seen people mangle a Plum Crazy Polymer AR lower with something obviously like a vise and post a picture and make statements. In todays society, we're in a state of confusion as to who and what to believe. All I'm saying is, look around. What do you see? I see a lot of Century rifles. And the more I talk to people who own them. The more I'm convinced to take these things with a grain of salt that you see online. "You provide the picture, I'll provide the war." Today, the world is filled with the idea behind Yellow Journalism. Pictures and statements are great, but my question is, what is really going on where you can't see past the edges of the picture, or when I'm not there to see it myself? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chevyman097 2,579 Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 No one attacked you. I simply pointed out that you tried to act like 100 rounds means something. 100 rounds is no where close to enough to prove any firearm. Simple as that. If you want to get your feelings hurt thats your issue, not mine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
leadchucker 12 Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) Just curious. Does the shepherd's crook come in the Saiga's from the factory? Are the Arsenals no good because they have shepherd's crooks? Yep, Saigas come from the factory with a shepherd's crook. Only problem is that the one that comes with the factory neutered Saiga will only fit a factory neutered Saiga. Once you drill out the trigger and lever pivots, you no longer have a place to secure it to. Nothing particularly wrong with a shepherds crook. If I understand correctly, that's the way the original 47's and 74's came. They are just so difficult to get in correctly. Edited January 18, 2012 by leadchucker Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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