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BruisedShoulder

Anyone cut down their barrel?

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I am curious about this, too, now that I have an NFA trust and too much cash. :) I know one vendor on here told me that he only does full SBS conversions, not chops/mods to converted guns. I am inquiring with a couple others to see if they can help me out with a 12" chop/rethread/gas-fix.

 

Shortening the barrel inherently decreases reliability, since the S12 is a gas-operated gun. There are things you can do to fix that (more gas holes, move back the gas block, etc.),

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I cut the barrel on my 1st from 22" to 18 1/4". At the same time I opened the gas ports on my 3 port gun and it eats anything I feed it. My next will have a monster brake on with an overall length of 18 1/4" and I plan to do the same for that one.

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According to the BATF, the accepted way of measuring the proper barrel length is this: with the breech closed, simply insert a cleaning rod or similar material down through the muzzle end, until it contacts the bolt face. Mark the end of the rod where it protrudes past the muzzle, then remove the rod and measure the length. It has to be at least 18" long, for it to be legal without making it a SBS. Most of the newer Saiga 12's are 19" long. If you want to add a muzzle brake to it, that can be included in the overall length as long as it is permanently attached via pinned and welded or soldered, not just threaded on.

 

As far as cutting the barrel, you have options depending on your skill level and access to tools and equipment. If you want to cut it yourself, I recommend a tubing cutter. The cut will be very clean and straight with a slight burr to the inside. This can be easily cleaned up with a countersink and a drill:

DSCN0346.jpg

 

Threading it is another matter. Once again, this depends on your skill level and access to a lathe. If you want to do this yourself without a lathe, you will need to order the correct M22 x .75 split collar threading die and a threading alignment tool:

2012-01-12_10-52-27_121.jpg

 

Actually the die shown is a solid collar die. I emphasize split collar because if it's a solid collar then you will need a lathe to turn down the end of the barrel first, as the outside diameter is about 0.020" too large to thread it as is. The split collar allows for multiple passes before getting it down to the correct dimension. You will also need a die stock handle to use the die, and a bench vise to secure the barrel while turning the threads.

 

I cut mine with a tubing cutter and I was initially going to thread it without a lathe. When I decided to remove the gas block to do the AK gas tube modification, I went ahead and removed the barrel too and decided to go with the lathe instead. I ordered the die shown for $22 off of Ebay. The split collar is a lot more expensive, around $90 or so.

 

As far as reliability is concerned, shortening it a few inches for a muzzle brake shouldn't affect function. The muzzle brake and/or choke will make up for the few inches of shorter length...when you get into the 8" - 12" SBS range then modifications to the gas system are necessary for reliable performance.

 

 

Good luck with your project!

Edited by tunnelrat

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Doesn't really matter how as long as you end up with a square muzzle face. Hacksaw and flat files is perfectly fine.

 

As previously mentioned, depending on how much you remove you may have to adjust the gas.

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Damn, that sucks....I just measured (my barrel) and its 19 inches. So, best case would be only an inch off unless I did the option to cut it shorter and weld on the break.

 

This would not be something I attempt though.

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I had mine cut to 13'' and added a monster break for 18'' OAL. wont cycle birdshot anymore but the gas ports were not opened up any

 

img20111207124213.jpg

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I had mine cut back so with a Poly choke it is right at 18.5". Gas ports were opened up a bit....it certainly looks better. But two things I noticed were it is not quite as reliable now with cheaper ammo. Remington Nitro at 1235fps or the (Rem) Sporting Clays at 1300fps works great...but Wal Mart Federal bulk pack will have a issue every 100 rnds or so. I just changed the recoil spring to a 12.5 lbs 1911....this might help....I was using a stock spring...will have to test it.

 

I mostly shoot 3 gun Matches.....and I noticed I had to choke down a bit to knock down minimally exposed poppers. I have two other S12's that I am going to keep at 19".

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I used a Abrasive Chop Saw with a Laser Guide. Like Bob said, you can use a Hacksaw, just make sure the cut is SQUARE.

post-22569-0-47765800-1326760195_thumb.jpg

post-22569-0-38297800-1326760239_thumb.jpg

post-22569-0-43844900-1326760249_thumb.jpg

Edited by Sumsky
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I used a Abrasive Chop Saw with a Laser Guide. Like Tony said, you can use a Hacksaw, just make sure the cut is SQUARE.

 

Nice tool... We gotta go shooting again some time.

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I used a Abrasive Chop Saw with a Laser Guide. Like Tony said, you can use a Hacksaw, just make sure the cut is SQUARE.

 

Nice tool... We gotta go shooting again some time.

 

Hey Brian, whats up. We definately have to go waste some ammo, If I can find the extra dough.

Edited by Sumsky

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I will be doing an instructional thread soon on chop, crown, and rethread with common tools. I already did the work and took the pics, I just have to resize all of them so I can upload and I need to create the intructions. Lots of work and projects going on right now.... I am currently working on an AK100 instructional as well. Fun stuff!

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Cool, I'll be waiting almost as patiently as I am for my state to legalize SBS... bad_smile.gif

When did you send out your Form 1? I'm going to get upset if you get yours back before I get mine ;) I sent mine out with a Form 1 for SBR 107UR on Novemeber 4. Mine has already been engraved and needs nothing but the chop. I did a little something different with the ports on this one than I usually do. I may have to add one more, but plan to test it first.... you never know. I will get those instructionals up as soon as I get through some of these projects.

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There is a very good video on YouTube that details how to cut and thread your barrel by hand, using a hack saw, file, the split collar die and thread alignment tool from CSS as I described above. Type "thread saiga 12" in the search window.

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For a firearm that has already been finished, can this be done by a do-it-yourself'r so that the finish is not destroyed except for under the attachment? For example, can an attachment (ie. such as the monster brake) be added to a shortened barrel if the gun has already been cerakoted without destroying the final finish with the brake installed?

 

Second question.. Are there any specifics on the definition of "permanently" attached. I know that welding/solder would be considered permenant, but both of those choices would definitely damage the cerakote finish around the barrel/muzzle area. Pinning would be another good choice, but I don't know whether I would be confident with my skills to accurately drill the hole. Although I've never used something like JB Weld in my life, is there any liquid/paste option to permanently attach a muzzle device?

 

Just asking.. Thanks...

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+1 on the tubing cutter. I was going to use it to just score the surface to make sure I had a nice straight line to cut/file to, but then I realized that it was not having any problem actually cutting the barrel. Took about 5 minutes to cut/deburr the barrel. Rethreaded it with the split die (no TAT), put on the brake to bring it up to 18-1/4" and welded. Looks MUCH better, and still cycles fine.

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For a firearm that has already been finished, can this be done by a do-it-yourself'r so that the finish is not destroyed except for under the attachment? For example, can an attachment (ie. such as the monster brake) be added to a shortened barrel if the gun has already been cerakoted without destroying the final finish with the brake installed?

 

Second question.. Are there any specifics on the definition of "permanently" attached. I know that welding/solder would be considered permenant, but both of those choices would definitely damage the cerakote finish around the barrel/muzzle area. Pinning would be another good choice, but I don't know whether I would be confident with my skills to accurately drill the hole. Although I've never used something like JB Weld in my life, is there any liquid/paste option to permanently attach a muzzle device?

 

Just asking.. Thanks...

 

Answer to question #2: Yes, there is a definition and JB weld (or loctite) won't cut it.

 

From the NFA handbook 2.1.1.

 

"NOTE: Any muzzle attachment such as a compensator, choke device, muzzle break, etc., is not included in the barrel length measurement unless the attachment is permanently affixed to the barrel. Acceptable methods for permanently attaching a device to a shotgun barrel are deep penetrating, full fusion, gas or electric steel seam welds or high temperature silver solder."

Edited by BobAsh
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Cool, I'll be waiting almost as patiently as I am for my state to legalize SBS... bad_smile.gif

When did you send out your Form 1? I'm going to get upset if you get yours back before I get mine wink.png I sent mine out with a Form 1 for SBR 107UR on Novemeber 4. Mine has already been engraved and needs nothing but the chop. I did a little something different with the ports on this one than I usually do. I may have to add one more, but plan to test it first.... you never know. I will get those instructionals up as soon as I get through some of these projects.

Haven't done any paperwork yet, My state is still not on board but the same people who got the law changed on suppressors last year are working on SBS/SBR right now.bad_smile.gif And it's looking pretty good.

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Cool, I'll be waiting almost as patiently as I am for my state to legalize SBS... bad_smile.gif

When did you send out your Form 1? I'm going to get upset if you get yours back before I get mine wink.png I sent mine out with a Form 1 for SBR 107UR on Novemeber 4. Mine has already been engraved and needs nothing but the chop. I did a little something different with the ports on this one than I usually do. I may have to add one more, but plan to test it first.... you never know. I will get those instructionals up as soon as I get through some of these projects.

Haven't done any paperwork yet, My state is still not on board but the same people who got the law changed on suppressors last year are working on SBS/SBR right now.bad_smile.gif And it's looking pretty good.

At least things are getting better there than worse. That's pretty rare these days. You should mail out the Form 1 for SBS on the day it passes and put "because it is legal" in the box for the reason for manufacturing the weapon.

 

Everyone should have at least one 10.5" AR too ;) Easiest SBR out there....

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Cool, I'll be waiting almost as patiently as I am for my state to legalize SBS... bad_smile.gif

When did you send out your Form 1? I'm going to get upset if you get yours back before I get mine wink.png I sent mine out with a Form 1 for SBR 107UR on Novemeber 4. Mine has already been engraved and needs nothing but the chop. I did a little something different with the ports on this one than I usually do. I may have to add one more, but plan to test it first.... you never know. I will get those instructionals up as soon as I get through some of these projects.

Haven't done any paperwork yet, My state is still not on board but the same people who got the law changed on suppressors last year are working on SBS/SBR right now.bad_smile.gif And it's looking pretty good.

At least things are getting better there than worse. That's pretty rare these days. You should mail out the Form 1 for SBS on the day it passes and put "because it is legal" in the box for the reason for manufacturing the weapon.

 

Everyone should have at least one 10.5" AR too wink.png Easiest SBR out there....

Oh my AR pistol will be getting a butt stock as well but it has a 6.5" bbl, will that work?greedy.gif

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Cool, I'll be waiting almost as patiently as I am for my state to legalize SBS... bad_smile.gif

When did you send out your Form 1? I'm going to get upset if you get yours back before I get mine wink.png I sent mine out with a Form 1 for SBR 107UR on Novemeber 4. Mine has already been engraved and needs nothing but the chop. I did a little something different with the ports on this one than I usually do. I may have to add one more, but plan to test it first.... you never know. I will get those instructionals up as soon as I get through some of these projects.

Haven't done any paperwork yet, My state is still not on board but the same people who got the law changed on suppressors last year are working on SBS/SBR right now.bad_smile.gif And it's looking pretty good.

At least things are getting better there than worse. That's pretty rare these days. You should mail out the Form 1 for SBS on the day it passes and put "because it is legal" in the box for the reason for manufacturing the weapon.

 

Everyone should have at least one 10.5" AR too ;) Easiest SBR out there....

 

I agree, and when I get the go ahead to do an SBS of my own I'm putting down, "Because I can!"

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For a firearm that has already been finished, can this be done by a do-it-yourself'r so that the finish is not destroyed except for under the attachment? For example, can an attachment (ie. such as the monster brake) be added to a shortened barrel if the gun has already been cerakoted without destroying the final finish with the brake installed?

 

Second question.. Are there any specifics on the definition of "permanently" attached. I know that welding/solder would be considered permenant, but both of those choices would definitely damage the cerakote finish around the barrel/muzzle area. Pinning would be another good choice, but I don't know whether I would be confident with my skills to accurately drill the hole. Although I've never used something like JB Weld in my life, is there any liquid/paste option to permanently attach a muzzle device?

 

Just asking.. Thanks...

Drilling and pinning the device to the barrel is OK, but the pin has to be welded...at least the discoloration would be limited to the attachment itself.

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This is a dumb question and my first post but according to the batfe as long as the gun stays over 26in can't you cut down the barrel down more than 18 and still be legal?

 

Under the National Firearms Act (NFA), it is illegal for a private citizen to possess a sawed-off modern smokeless powder shotgun; a shotgun with a barrel length shorter than 18 inches (46 cm) or an overall length shorter than 26 inches (66 cm), without a tax-paid registration

Edited by jjh

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I'm not totally sure I understand your question, but you may legally cut your barrel down as long as it is no less than 18" long- measured from the closed bolt face to the muzzle.

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Regardless of OAL, you can't go shorter than 18in without NFA paperwork. The 26in OAL would apply to say, a pistol grip only shotgun, even if the barrel is 18in, OAL still has to be at least 26 for legality.

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