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SOPMOD

Cars are a ripoff(here's proof)

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After doing a cost/benefit analysis of a semi truck vs any automobile ever made I am convinced that all automobiles are intentionally made to be disposable garbage. Not just newer cars full of gizmos and plastic but even cars that have a beloved reputation and a cult following for their "durability" like Toyota Landcruisers(which I have owned).

 

Here is why. a $98,000, 21,000lb Semi truck can be driven without a trailer, this is called "Bobtailing" and in that state these 21,000lb behemoths of the road can get 8-10MPG and without the massive weight and strain of a 50,000lb trailer behind it would last over 1,000,000 miles with fairly basic maintenance. If engineers and auto makers extrapolated these same qualities to let's say an SUV you should be able to buy a $24,500, 6500lb SUV that gets 36-40MPG and will last 1,000,000 MILES!

 

but we have never seen such a vehicle offered because we are a bunch of stupid consumerist sheeple who don't know any better and won't demand more for our money.

 

Peterbuilt should start making sedans with Cummins 4BT engines and little Eaton full 6 speeds with 2.11 rear end gears that get 60mpg and put these clowns out of business.

Edited by SOPMOD
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Good thing you are noticing now, before you waste too much more cash! You are smarter than Most folks out there! Just like that gas milage thing. Any car with great potential does not get to stick around!!

The old Honda cvvc 1500's got over 40 mpg back in the late 70's! "But Americans want power" they say, so Honda gave us the CRX, Fun power with 40+ mpg!! Now Ford is bragging about shabby half plastic Rattle-traps getting 32 mpg 40 years later! Those old little Honda's will go probably 500,000 or so. We got close, but consumer pressure was not enough.

THAT is a big issue. Folks keep eating the shit they shove down your throat because they Think it is an "American car" and somehow that validates being Ripped-off.

Edited by RobRez
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this is one of the more reasons to car pool.

 

I know there are people who MUST have a car, but if can get away with it. Ride a bike, you'll be healthier, more fit, have fun and best of all, you won't be supporting these crappy ass car companies.

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The problem is the larger trucks get to take advantage of the tech with less limits on them.

 

Our government has mandated so much into light vehicles from safety crap, to emissions, that it'll never happen.

 

best bet? buy a old vehicle and transplant power plants, and drive trains.

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but we have never seen such a vehicle offered because we are a bunch of stupid consumerist sheeple who don't know any better and won't demand more for our money.

 

 

I believe you are bothered by planned obsolescence. Me too. I try to buy with durability and longevity in mind. It's getting harder and harder to do.. I don't think it's even possible anymore with some goods, like anything that revolves around a processor and portability.

 

That said, I like my Honda CRV.

Edited by Koljec

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I could stick a Cummins 4BT and an Eaton 6speed in a 1969 Lincoln Continental with a tall rearend and beat every combustion engine vehicle sold int he USA for milage and durability.

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I tend to agree but........

There are smaller company's out there that you can purchase vehicles from that are incredibly well built (long lasting). This is kinda like saying no does custom butchering anymore because there standing in a Wal-mart and all you see is Walmart shit with out custom butchering...... The statement was made before research was done. My old man worked for Ford, I'm proud of him and what he's done and understand why the cars aren't built like tanks. VERY few people keep a car longer then a few years anymore even if it's in perfect condition. Oddly I'm the opposite and will drive what ever vehicle I own until it's dead in the water, that said I'm not very nice to my vehicles.

 

There ARE other options out there but for some reason it must have to have a big brand name for some people to buy.

Anything can be done for a price, you just won't get the logo of a big company on there.

Support America and hire your local custom shop, who knows maybe you'll make them the next big thing.

Edited by YARP

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I agree the makers are not really trying to get all they can mileage wise and durability wise,

however to note some differences in a big rig diesel and a car,

the Diesel engine is turning half the revolutions per minute, this helps with longevity,

way taller tires means less revolutions of the tires, axles, rear end etc. helps with less bearing wear and longevity.

if you compare the brake pad of the 2, the big rig is 3 times the size and way thicker, so it will last longer, although it is stopping more weight as well.

the same goes for bearing parts and such.

 

 

 

EXTREME EXAMPLE

I am sure I could power a full sized car on weed eater mower, (seriously) it could be done through proper gearing, although it might not go but 1/2 mile per hour.

 

a logical answer would be to build a small 1 liter motor with a turbo that produced about 75 horsepower, in a light car with deep gears, it would get great mileage, but you would be limited to a lower top speed like 65mph max, which would be fine. cars have no practical need to go 120-140 mph,

you can get better millage, with a smaller motor capable of less top speed that is not really needed with less power and more gear which equals more economical..

 

20% of the power created by the motor is lost in the drivetrain, a direct drive would make the car way more economical although it would be a pig on takeoff unless you built some kind of a slipclutch in the direct drive setup.

Edited by universal_exports

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Well in manufacturing there is:

what you can make

what you wish you could make

and what your customers can afford.

 

Generally speaking its the money factor that controls what gets made.

 

One other factor is that car designers generally are people who love cars, generally they like fast cars.

So when they get assigned to design small low powered cars, they are already pissed off before they even get started.

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Well in manufacturing there is:

what you can make

what you wish you could make

and what your customers can afford.

 

Generally speaking its the money factor that controls what gets made.

 

One other factor is that car designers generally are people who love cars, generally they like fast cars.

 

...hence my car!

 

Camaro001.jpg

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Well in manufacturing there is:

what you can make

what you wish you could make

and what your customers can afford.

 

Generally speaking its the money factor that controls what gets made.

 

One other factor is that car designers generally are people who love cars, generally they like fast cars.

 

...hence my car!

 

Camaro001.jpg

 

Having owned 4 new GM products I can say I am truly sorry for you and the lesson you are about to learn being a GM owner. Other than a Corvette meant to take up space in your garage there is no reason to buy a new GM car other than to throw bales of money into a drainage culvert and watch it float away.

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Your jealousy doesn't bother me in the least. It's my money. I enjoy wasting it on luxuries.

BTW: It's a low number car, it's signed, and, of the pre-production models, this one is one of the unique ones.

I have a litho signed by everyone at the plant who built it too.

 

Oh, and it's 400hp and does NOT get 40MPG!

 

ROCK ON AMERICAN MUSCLE!

 

Life's too short to drive a shitty car!

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Your jealousy doesn't bother me in the least. It's my money. I enjoy wasting it on luxuries.

BTW: It's a low number car, it's signed, and, of the pre-production models, this one is one of the unique ones.

I have a litho signed by everyone at the plant who built it too.

 

Oh, and it's 400hp and does NOT get 40MPG!

 

ROCK ON AMERICAN MUSCLE!

 

Life's too short to drive a shitty car!

 

I concur!

IMG_20110905_151938.jpg

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Here's how I look at cars. It's a mode of transportation that gets me from point A to B. just like my feet, or a bicycle or a horse. A car just happens to be the most efficient. 99% of the time I'm the only one in my car, I also do about 30k miles a year. So what I need is something that gets me from here to there as efficiently as possible. Also it has to last a loooong time, be fairly reliable, and eat as little gas as possible. I don't care if it's a truck or the Smart for Two. I also don't care who made it. America, Japan, China, N. Korea, Canada, Russia....DON'T CARE! As long as it doesn't eat more money the needed. If I can get a weeks worth of gas for $20 why would I want to do the exact same thing for $50 or $100 or more. This never made sense to me. If I were to ask $600 for an unconverted saiga even those who can afford it will say its a ripoff but when it comes to cars a lot of times this logic goes out the window.

 

Currently I drive a 2001 Toyota Solara (2 door Camry) and it has 201200 miles. I bought it a few years ago with 81000 miles. So far I've spent about $300 in preventive maintenance (water pumps, timing belts, thermostats...) that's it. I'm now debating on getting an older Civic becuase the burn less gas

Edited by Arik
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A big part of the costs are from douchebags like the doctor that backed over his son who is now trying to create a law to mandate live motion video cameras in the back of every new car sold. Punish the masses for the sins of the few - A truly progressive strategy!

 

The thousands of these often times asinine regulations cost the end consumer in R&D money and then in the cost of extra mandated equipment.

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None of my 4 vehicles get more than 30 mpg, but they are getting the miles and years put on them!! My '86 Toyo pick-up has 215,000 miles and is my 30mpg rig! The '85 4runner has 310,000 miles but only 20 mpg, a '74 Beetle with 197,000 miles and 28 mpg and lastly the seemingly immortal '54 chevy pick-up, still running great with over 178,000 miles when the odometer stopped working at least 15 years ago, that gets around a whopping 16mpg. No I haven't fixed it yet.

At least I feel good by using my rigs to the maximum life/fun potential! I traded Tattoo work for all but the old Chevy, so my car hobby has cost me far less than 1 new car.

I don't like to see good old fixable rigs going to waste. Also I am being "Green" by owning 4 cars! By posessing 4 of the cars on the Earth, and only being able to drive 1 at a time, I am effectively keeping 3 cars OFF the roads! Thereby Saving the Entire Planet by owning multiple cars!!

So, I guess I don't need any better milage, unless I was to add to my collection!

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My 2005 Dodge dually with the Cummins gets 24-26 mpg ALL DAY EVERY DAY, it's only got 142,000 on it, where as, my wifes 2004 Toyota Solara gets about 27-29. My Dodge still has the original brake pads on all wheels, (she's already had 2 set of pads installed and rotors turned) and all I've ever done to it is change oil and filters. But even when we hook to the 5th wheel and go camping (10,000lbs), I still get 12-13 mpg. I'm looking to get at least 500,000 out of the engine, the truck might fall to pieces, but the motor should be chugging along. I also have a 1989 Ford Ranger with a I-4 and even going down hill, the best it ever gets is about 15 mpg, so with the difference in the price of gas to diesel, I'm still winning by driving my diesel guzzling truck.

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Here is why. a $98,000, 21,000lb Semi truck can be driven without a trailer, this is called "Bobtailing" and in that state these 21,000lb behemoths of the road can get 8-10MPG and without the massive weight and strain of a 50,000lb trailer behind it would last over 1,000,000 miles with fairly basic maintenance. If engineers and auto makers extrapolated these same qualities to let's say an SUV you should be able to buy a $24,500, 6500lb SUV that gets 36-40MPG and will last 1,000,000 MILES!

 

Just reread the first post thought I'd add

 

You can get a little better then 10mpg bobtailing. And loaded, most trucks still get around 6mpg.

But quite simply a semi truck has a smaller engine to weight ratio, 400-500 hp+ sounds like a lot.. Until you factor that it could weigh as much as 80,000lbs. A car weighs like 3000 lbs and has roughly 100hp which is 30 lbs per hp, the 500hp semi is 160 lbs per hp.... To get the same ratio of engine to weight you would have to build a 18.75 hp diesel (roughly). I just don't see merging going well.

 

My mind is a little foggy, I have a cold so my math is likely flawed.

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I think a lot of people forget that mileage was calculated differently back in the day, so what was 40 MPG then is nowhere near that now . And that cars do suffer from being bloated by extra safety equipment. Say what you will but it does increase chances of survival.

 

I know tractor-trailer engines are hardy but I'm not sure about 10 gallon oil changes and 5-10 grand rebuilt kits for engines. Plus now there is a specific science (can't remember the exact name) that focuses on making a product last as close to a warranty +10 days after as possible. That's how the business runs... if things last too long then they don't make enough money to pay CEOs millions in bonuses.

 

I know you guys are all proud of your "american" muscle but I guarantee you, you will be hard to press to find many parts that were actually built( not assembled) here that are on that card. I'm pretty sure Chevy made a lot of engines in Mexico and LS3 without the dry sump system was from Canada as far as I recall; the chassis from Australia etc.

 

Honestly I'm surprised we don't have more small displacement turbo diesels... those things can get some bad-ass mileage. I know some friends with Jetta TDIs that get 43MPG when they drive relatively conservative

 

 

 

 

You can get a little better then 10mpg bobtailing. And loaded, most trucks still get around 6mpg.

But quite simply a semi truck has a smaller engine to weight ratio, 400-500 hp+ sounds like a lot.. Until you factor that it could weigh as much as 80,000lbs. A car weighs like 3000 lbs and has roughly 100hp which is 30 lbs per hp, the 500hp semi is 160 lbs per hp.... To get the same ratio of engine to weight you would have to build a 18.75 hp diesel (roughly). I just don't see merging going well.

 

My mind is a little foggy, I have a cold so my math is likely flawed.

I think a lot of cars now get closer to 170-200 HP.

But semi's also get crazy torque numbers, since they were purely engineered to tow stuff; like I said earlier I think we need a purely built small literage small/fast spool turbo diesel cars. I just know diesels are a bit of a premium to repair and stuff but that might change if they were widely available.

Edited by HappYBallZ

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I don't know. Would I like to pay less for a vehicle? Of course. But you really do get a lot of great engineering for your money in modern vehicles. Today I was driving my SUV on snow with no traction devices on the tires and with the traction control system and anti-lock brakes it was almost impossible to put the thing into a skid, and I really tried. That's pretty impressive. I think where people get ripped off more is when they finance a vehicle. I know not everyone can afford to pay cash but way too many people finance more vehicle than they can afford and that in itself artificially drives up the cost of vehicles.

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Honestly I'm surprised we don't have more small displacement turbo diesels... those things can get some bad-ass mileage. I know some friends with Jetta TDIs that get 43MPG when they drive relatively conservative

 

That's what I'm buying (well, a Golf, not a Jetta, but that's just a difference in what body is thrown on top of the basic platform) this summer provided nothing goes sideways. They get 43MPG when you drive like a loon. If you really try and drive conservatively, you'll get closer to 53MPG on the freeway.

Edited by Donkeyshins

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A coworker of mine drives a 90' Geo Metro that gets low 50s. Ugly as hell but he commutes a ways so it pays off for him.

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I drive a toyota tacoma, this is my 2nd one. I have been driving these trucks since 1996. I sold my first one 2 1/2 years ago for 6000.00 with 250,000 miles on it. The only thing I ever did to it was basic maintenace. These trucks are well built and the only truck I will ever own. My wife drives a prius, I think that is a neat car also.

Rich

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If engineers and auto makers extrapolated these same qualities to let's say an SUV you should be able to buy a $24,500, 6500lb SUV that gets 36-40MPG and will last 1,000,000 MILES!

 

You know it occurred to me that in the budget your talking you could buy a M1028 CUCV and have your choice of Cummings engine swapped in for less than that.

 

There are shops that will even do the work for you for $15k-$20k and you just need to find a nice donor CUCV to start with, and the engine and drivetrain need not even work.

 

Add a 6" lift and run surplus 37" goodyear OZ radials. They wear like steel, and cost about $100 a piece.

 

So lets say...

$3,975.00 CUCV (buy it now price on E-bay)

$20,000.00 High end Cummings swap

 

Now your options are either re-gear the truck as is, and run smaller tires(could be done by shop doing engine swap), or go full monty on a lift and 37s

$1,200 for 5 re-centered HMMWV rims with tires(full size spare a must)

$1,000 or so for a quality 6" lift

$600 or so for the driveshaft extensions at a reputable shop.

 

Total HIGH END cost: $26,800 for a 5/4 ton truck lifted on 37" tires getting 20 or more MPG.

Cheaper than most new vehicles.

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My old '64 Rambler American got 44 honest MPG. It ran over 300,000 hard miles (I was YOUNG!). The Wife's '98 Grand Cherokee gets 17-18 mpg, but is running strong at 216,000 miles, and my '88 Comanche has 212,000 miles and runs strong.

Good vehicles are out there, but like the old Rambler most people don't want them because they are too proletarian, Lee Iocca proved that with the Mustang. Take a stodgey but well made car like a Ford Falcon, put a sexy but impractical body on it and voila! - A poor selling good car becomes a best selling crapmobile. We get cars that are fashionable and sell. Cars like the old Rambler last for years and years, sell few replacements and the company goes under. Just another hard lesson in consumer psycholigy, build what sells or go broke.

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Honestly I'm surprised we don't have more small displacement turbo diesels... those things can get some bad-ass mileage. I know some friends with Jetta TDIs that get 43MPG when they drive relatively conservative

They're probably in Europe. Europe has serious standards for their diesel fuel, specifying minimum 'cetane' (think octane) for it to be sold. European diesel is 50+ cetane. American shit, excuse me, diesel is 14-24 cetane. So the Eurodiesels that get 60+ mpg over there can't even get 40mpg here in the US.

 

Let's not even get started on how much weight in safety crap you have to add to a car. Hey, you guys with those new Camaros! How heavy are they?

 

~3600lbs or so, IIRC. A '67 Camaro? 2600lbs.

 

I'll admit it, if I could afford the payments for one, I would buy a BMW i8. Yes, it is a hybrid. It gets 80mpg, and can go ~20 miles on the batteries alone, too. It will out-accelerate that Camaro with a 0-60 time under 5 seconds, and has an autobahn top speed. It has 350hp (like I said, it is a BMW). Only problem is the pricetag... last I heard it was $200k. Replacing the battery pack in 5 years is going to blow, but I'd do it.

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