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Blazer76

7075 aluminum AK

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That's pretty sweet. A poly 1911 is possible. If Glock can do it with their boxy pistol (Glock guys don't hate, I own a Glock too, G27 Gen 4.) then a Poly frame is very possible. I'm not sure I'd want a poly mainspring housing but the frame by it's self is do-able for sure.

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I have one that I'm skinning in carbon fiber just for a cosmetic covering, but I've thought about making one kind of like a milled receiver with all the extra material milled out to create a "skeleton" frame. Then skin the skeleton in carbon fiber. That way you have steel on steel components, but 1/4 of the original milled weight. Not sure if it could handle the stresses, but I always thought it'd be interesting to try it.

 

Could do the same "skeleton" with 6061 T6 and use steel inserts for the carrier to slide on, like has been mentioned previously.

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I like the looks of the RR LAR-47 definitly heading in the right direction

 

can any one cut a bolt carrier out 7075 or 6061?

 

Im also wanting a gas tube/ hand gaurd system made

 

what I basicly want is a ultimak style gas tube with the factory gas tube reatainer so it doesnt have to use the bands

 

the lower hand gaurd would be like this http://store.carolin...rearm-Ar/Detail

but made to attach to the gas tube so that the front hand gaurd retainer would not be used and could be removed

 

oh and by the way Rock River is working on a poly 1911

 

Be careful with an aluminum BC. The lighter weight can reduce your lock time and speed the process up, good lock time aids good extraction. You may find you need a smaller gas port to compensate for the less mass/weight as it may require less energy to cycle the action.

 

Why not use a front handguard retainer like on the Tantal? It's a one piece deal for the upper and lower handguard. Simple and easy.

 

I heard about that Poly 1911. It can be done and the project definitely has my attention.

Edited by ShadowFire

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but thats the point is to speed things up, the smaller gas port is no problem cause I have a adjustable gas block (currently my gun has less recoil than a AR) so I shaved the sholders on each side and took quite a bit of weight off my BC, wich added more recoil no matter how much I turned the gas down so I had a Wolf extra power recoil spring, and that was the trick, now she cycles about 15% faster with less gas which stays behind the bullet, the hammer on my G2 was way to heavy so I took some weight off it too

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I finally skinned my 7.62x25 AK receiver in carbon fiber sheet. Would love to do a build with a skeletonized aluminum receiver clad in carbon fiber. They can now get the aluminum and steel to fuse together via "explosive welding", so that you could make your wear surfaces steel and the rest, aluminum.

post-34941-0-86531000-1335456745_thumb.jpg

post-34941-0-95616800-1335456765_thumb.jpg

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thats awsome, is that layed over a steel reciver? it would be cool to see handgards and but stocks made out of carbon fiber.

 

It would be interesting to see if caron fiber could take the stress but I dont see y it couldnt Bushmaster makes a carbon fiber AR reciver

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thats awsome, is that layed over a steel reciver? it would be cool to see handgards and but stocks made out of carbon fiber.

 

It would be interesting to see if caron fiber could take the stress but I dont see y it couldnt Bushmaster makes a carbon fiber AR reciver

My research into carbon fiber sheeting has revealed that the currently availible adhesives for it have low heat resistance. So its applications for fire arms is still somewhat limited.

Edited by poolingmyignorance

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Thanks Blazer. Yeah it's just layered over the stamped steel receiver. Here she is now that I've painted the non carbon fiber areas:

post-34941-0-62719300-1335980044_thumb.jpg

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Bushmaster's carbon fiber receiver is not really carbon fiber as we think of it when we see woven carbon fiber. It is fiber reinforced polymer, like the AUG and P90.

 

Not to say it isn't durable, my current carbon AR is a polymer lower, upper, stock, grip and FCG.

 

Experimental polymer AK's have been tested at IZH.

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so bushmasters AR is like ATI's stocks..... interesting

 

2nd have you tried making a pistol grip or stock? i jst watched some carbon fibre vids and it dosent look hard jst involved

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Blazer, no I haven't done anything along those lines. I just had some CF sheet laying around and said "hey I wonder what this would look like". Although we do have plenty of pre-preg carbon fiber at work, that I may have to think about doing some parts with. Kinda glad you said that. LOL.

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An aluminum receiver would be nice. The receiver can be either sheet metal or milled. I wouldn't want to mess with an aluminum bolt carrier, the stresses are too high unless you know how to redesign it. Riveting the aluminum would not be a problem, aircrat are riveted together. Make sure the rivet fills the holes to avoid elongaton. I like the carbon fiber receiver but the fasteners need to be treated to prevent galvanic corrosion more than aluminums will. At Douglas Aircraft they used titanium fasteners for the carbon fiber for that reason.

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A CF hand gaurd with bonded threaded inserts would be the best answer to any aluminum rail system

 

good info Uzi, the only part of the BC that would have isues would be where the BC slams into the trunion not sure if it could take it, but how do U know unless U try

 

see to me this is the type of forward thinking the AK industry needs. now we need someone to build one Im gonna send emails to NoDak Spud, AK builder and Firing line see if anyone bites

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Why not put the effort into a Kel-Tec Su16... they start off less than 5 lbs.

Personally I would rather have a kel tec, but then what would there be to customize?

 

 

An SU-16c with the E backend (AR tube, CAR stock, and pistol grip basically) and a Battlecomp is a super-fun gun to shoot. The ladies love it too; it's short, ultra-lighweight, and easy recoiling.

Edited by Jim Digriz
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couldnt we use a metal treatment already in use for the barrel, bolt, and FCG to prevent galvanic corrosion.

and what if we eliminate most of that floping around? Do we really need chanels we can drive a semi through, or a over gassed system that causes the carrier to voiently slam into the back of the carrier for reliability? and I like the idea of a titanium piston that would be interesting

 

a couple designs i like is the sako 95 and the galil and even the new galil ace good ideas

 

wish i could ge a sako 95 or galil ace here in the us wet_eyes.gif

 

.You got the galil ACE now, if you have the $$$

so bushmasters AR is like ATI's stocks..... interesting

 

2nd have you tried making a pistol grip or stock? i jst watched some carbon fibre vids and it dosent look hard jst involved

 

Windham poly guns have a proprietary material both in composition and in method of laying up the fibers for molding. It's better than comperable materials apparently, and no one is disputing that, but I've yet to see a comparison or destruction test on them.

 

I think the main point is that in ARs, anything that takes force is either in the tube, or directly locking into the barrel. The rest of the gun barely counts as a stressed member. Aks are not quite as independent in design.

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6061 1.25x1.5x10 is around $20, that's some magic aluminum and you don't need that much of it

 

6061 is kinda worst case scenario for the problems we discussed. People tend to go for it, because it lists very high rigidity per weight, which people somewhat misunderstand as strength. However 6061 is very brittle and prone to fatigue cracking. We see it a lot in boat building, where builders use 6061 to keep things light and save on material cost. Then it shatters, or cracks right along any stress point.  We use 5056 because it is less rigid, but dramatically more ductile, and also can take impacts. It will peen up, and deform, but not fail.  Here's a test you can do if you are curious. Take a piece of 1/4" plate 60 series aluminum. Something like a bar 3-4" wide. Stick it in a vise. scratch it with your knife and bend it. Somewhere around 20-40* of bend, it will shear at the scratch almost as if you sawed it. It will look all crystaline at the break. Do the same thing with 50 series and you can probably bend the piece to touching the vice and folded all the way the other way almost 180* of flex (with a natural radius, not a forced one) I've done that 20 or so times without the piece breaking. You could feel less resistance, but it didn't shear and it ignores the scratch.

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No. Those are milled steel. The bolt is more or less a falling block with the shoulders backing against features in the receiver. If that were aluminum, it would be hammered to oblivion. They did have aluminum mags though, which is probably what triggered your memory.

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No. Those are milled steel. The bolt is more or less a falling block with the shoulders backing against features in the receiver. If that were aluminum, it would be hammered to oblivion. They did have aluminum mags though, which is probably what triggered your memory.

 

Ah,ok. Yeah, it must be the mags I'm thinking of for the VZ 58 that are aluminum. I know that CZ makes some of their pistols with a forged aluminum frame (7075 T6) The CZ-75 PCR (which I have, fantastic little pistol) and the P-01. Although that's probably an apples to oranges comparison, because an AK design would probably require a material that could absorb more of a pounding.  

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This is basically the FNC by the way.

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On 1/22/2012 at 5:46 PM, gunfun said:

Riveted construction isn't great with aluminum. It would end up with egg shaped rivet holes. Also steel can flex up to it's fatigue point pretty much for ever. AKs flop all over the place. You've seen the videos. When you flex or vibrate aluminum, it is stressed at a molecular level and develops cracks and fissures. That's why semis and airframes have a service life without even being pushed past their limits. With aluminum you would need to spread out the force over a broader area and have thicker material. Also it tends to gall, which means you would have issues with the rails.

 

Another issue is galvanic corrosion. Putting dissimilar metals together makes a battery and aluminum wants to be the anode. get some salts in there and some moisture and it will electroplate itself to powder. So you would need steel or stainless rails, barrel, trunions, bolt, carrier, ejector, FCG... I think plastic is actually a better option because it can distribute the shock better. Moreso if we were willing to give up the shape of the receiver, and just keep the function of the components. There is a ton of wasted space in this antiquated box design. It could go on a serious diet and still have thicker walls.

Riveted construction is what aircraft are built. They use aluminum because it can flex more than steel and it won't work harden. Aircraft are subjected to a lot of stress and vibrations in flight and the material's flexibility is why they use it. Airframes last for a long time; look at the B-52 bombers that are still flying since the 1950s. They do repair cracks and replace parts to keep them in the air. The Boeing 747 and DC-10s are still flying and some are decades old.

The galvanic corrosion issue can be dealt with using anti seize lubricant to separate the dissimilar metals.

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