I'm goin for it - cutting off the stock for dummies

[negev5021 25]

So I got the 1919 last week thinking I would just put it away for a year or so waiting for parts to be made, when all of the sudded the stock adapter shows up on the CSS website! I needed a retaining plate for my S12 anyway and ordered the adapter with it.... and I am waiting for it to arrive.

 

But in the meantime I thought I would prepare for the arrival by figuring out how I was going to do the switch. I really should be sending off my stuff off to be worked on, but found great pleasure in tweeking the S12 at home, it gave me a good sense of accomplishment and some confidence that may be unwarranted, but heck - Ima go for it.

 

Here is what I know from the posts here on the forum: the stock block will mount .60" from the back at 90 degrees. The cut has to be straight/plumb (not sure if thats the right term) and with the adapter will mount an AR type buffer tube/stock.

 

So I dig around for something that is 90 degree angle and came up with like a deck support bracket and a carpenter square:

 

 

I figure I can practice on the far end of the stock since it will be cut off anyway, but the bracket is to short to reach the end, so the carpenter square it is. I did not have the proper extension to remove the upper from the lower, which turned out to be OK, because for the life of me I could not figure out how to get a 90degree angle - I stood the gun barrel down with a freekin level, I tried to use this funky string plumbob or something, but the best (most easy) method was to take the square and hold it on the top rail, with the pistol grip part on the stock:

 

 

 

That at least appeared to be a logical method to 90 degrees, and I marked it several time with a pencil, just to see what it looked like... not bad I suppose.

 

I did it on both sides, noting wich "notch" in the rail I started on, so it would be the same on both sides:

 

 

So, I have it marked and ready for the cut. I had a hacksaw, but the blade was kinked in the mount and I did not think it would cut straight, so, out to the garage to find something else. 'bout the only thing I had was a sawzall metal blade... it was straight, stiff, and small teeth so I gave it a try. I did not really care if it worked or not because I could try something else, but in reality, it bit into the plastic very well, when pulling back on it, and it made a very fine cut right on the line:

 

So I cut through on both sides, and broke throught the hollow stock on the faces of it before the top and bottom. As I was going, I thought after I got through both sides, I could put the blade through and use the cuts as a guide to cut the top/bottom:

 

 

This did not work as well as I thought and I would recommend against it, you will see in a minute. I also tried a dremel with a cutting wheel, and it melted the stock:

 

After I got through I put the carpenters square back on to see how it worked out, and it was close, but you can see the gap it left from one side to the other, as the square is sitting on the backside, but there is a space (pretty big space) on this visable side:

 

 

So, yesterday I gave it another shot, what the heck, I got 8 inches of stock to practice on, and the adapter ain't here yet (what happened to Gregs postal minions?). This time I am extra carfull in the marking - I sharpend the pencil, and indexed the square so more sat on the rail than before, and the notch it went off of was at the same angle (you have to put the square at the bottem edge of the rail and it traverses over to the top edge and grip part sits on stock).. just to extra dilligent in my hack job ( I am the hack)

 

This time I cut the flat part of the stock, on the line, as far as I could. Then I flipped over the gun and did the same on the other side, and the cut was much more straight/flush with the other:

 

 

I'm feelin like a freekin gunsmith now so Tony if your out there I am for hire. As you can see, the second attempt came out much better than the first, and I can attribute it to 2 things. Carefull measurement, and straight cuts (duh), but that putting the blade through the 2 holes I think messed it up:

 

 

So at this point I am much more comfortable with doing the real cut. A couple of things I should mention before anyone goes out and does what I did: First - I don't have any instructions for real and don't know if this 90degree assumption I made is correct. Second, I am absolutely certain there is a better/more appropriate method, however I lack tools and skill, but have an overabundance of ambition, which may come to bite me in the ass. All I know now is I am looking out the window for the postman like a junkie for this adapter to arrive, and I will update when it does.

Edited January 27, 2012 by negev5021

[russm4a3 5]

Looks good so far to me. I'll be getting mine in 2 weeks. Not sure if Ill have the testicular fortitude to cut mine, but you could motivate me to do my own!

[TonyRumore 1,332]

You've got the right idea. And starting off with it long and getting is squared up with the extra length is a great idea.

If you can't get it cut straight and sqaure at 1", 2", 3", or whatever, you sure as hell don't want to attempt it at the final .600" dimension.

If you try it several times with the stock long, and it doesn't work out, you can toss in the towel and have someone do it on a milling machine.

If you fuck it up at .600", you're buying another gun..........

 

Tony

[saiga545 47]

Great tutorial, I was pondering the 90 degree cut myself and planning on using my Miter saw. The carpenter angle is a great idea for us poor folks lacking mills . Mine came in today, but am stuck at the plant tonight making the big $$ so I can pay for my addiction. I think we need a support group I will get to work on it in the morning and take it slow. I will do as you suggested with the carp angle and finish it perfect with my belt sander. Thanks again Tony for getting this part out so fast and to Greg for being such a great vendor!

[negev5021 25]

If you fuck it up at .600", you're buying another gun..........

 

Tony

 

Ok so that pretty much freaks my shit out right there....I read this and thought I would do another practice run - low and behold I did fuck it up... not at .600 so not a loss, but a blow to my confidence about freedogin it. I need to come up with a bit more scientific route. The gun needs to be level and flat (shoulda known that), and I am considering a chop box saw, like Saiga545 said, that I can borrow. I scoped it out today and it has the 90 degree vertical axis no problem, so the horizontal axis needs a fix.

 

The problem I have is the gun is all types of angles, just sit it on the table and it wobbles all over. I know I need the side with the charging handle to be the side it sits on, because the pistol grip will get in the way of the saw blade if I flip it. So I field stripped (dumbass me cut the stock with the rest of the gun fully assembled the first 3 times) and after bolt/carrier removal I put the upper/lower back together, screwed it tight, then removed the screw again. Still not that flat. I had the carry handle removed to use the rail as a 90 degree guide, and upon inspection found that the nuts that hold the carry handle on stick way out, like past all the ridges of the side of the gun, just on the left, not the right, so I turned the carry handle backwards on the rail and tightend it up, flipped it over, and no wobble!

 

 

 

Then I took some little blocks of wood to support the magwell and pistol grip:

 

 

You can't see the bubble well in the level, but its dead center. I am not sure if I even need the wood blocks, as I think the 2 points from the carry handle provide the horizontal level.

 

I think this is gonna work better than freehand with a sawzall blade. We shall see! Adapter due in tomorrow.

Edited January 28, 2012 by negev5021

[saiga545 47]

Got mine done! I'm super stoked - it was hell, will post pics of my process and hope it helps you.

[saiga545 47]

Here is the finished product! I'm using the Tromix stock from my S-12 w/o folding mech because I don't have enough US parts to make it 922r. I have the M4 stock w/ folding mech on my S-12 until my MKA gets enough US parts. So far, I have the DPH FH on adapter from CSS, Tromix gas piston, Tromix mag floor plate, and Tromix stock. I think I need two more US parts.

 

[negev5021 25]

That. Is. Awesome! Nice to see someone do it before my attempt. Hand cut may just work for me after all. Two questions - what is the yellow stuff your using to get it level in the vice, and if I read your text correctly, the instruction indicat cutting to .85 - is this the final cut before file/fit/finish? Thank you for posting.

[saiga545 47]

That. Is. Awesome! Nice to see someone do it before my attempt. Hand cut may just work for me after all. Two questions - what is the yellow stuff your using to get it level in the vice, and if I read your text correctly, the instruction indicat cutting to .85 - is this the final cut before file/fit/finish? Thank you for posting.

 

The yellow things are padded vice jaws - one of the best assets for gun work ever! I found them at Lowe's for $9.99. They're magnetic and they have holes for piping which are good for clamping bbls. The 0.85" is the final cut in the instructions before grinding it to 0.600. You can probably go a little closer than this if you don't have a sander, because .25" is a lot of meateria to take off with a file - just verify your measurements and check the straightness of your guidelines. But if the worst happens and you cut it too short, at least Tony is making us an aluminum lower . I'm definitely getting one of those just to have.

[negev5021 25]

Ok so the postman did not show up with the adapter, but Saiga 545 gave me more to work on. Suggestion #1: Just wait for the instructions. Suggestion # 2: Your not gonna get a 100% perfect cut with a hand saw. there is not adequate flat points to get good measurements in my opinion.

 

So, learning that the hard way, I found that no matter what, the carpenter square was less than perfect, because the gun ain't flat. Therefore, after each practice cut, I found my self file/sanding to 90 and also the side to side level - 90 is the easy one, put the gun in a vise flat and get the bubble to line up with it placed were the shoulder would go too. But in doing so I produced a consistan flat area to work off of, that is, taking the measurement from the rear of the stock intead of off the front:

 

 

 

Once I got down the stock far enough, and learning the instructions noted .85 to start, I marked from the top .85, and set the carpenter square at the distance from .85 out the square end I last cut/trimmed and made square. Then just went around the whole thing. This way I was able to get consistant marking around the whole stock, after which I put tape to be sure the lines all lined up, something I had trouble with doing the side to side marking.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Then, with a new fine carbide saw blade, I did very short stroke cutting to be sure I stayed right on the line of the tape:

 

 

 

It came out the cleanest yet:

 

 

 

So, if I had it to do all over, knowing what I know now, I would just ship it off and be done with it. Now that I know, the down and dirty:

 

Wait for the parts to arrive

Just hack it off anywhere near 4 inches or so from the reciever, any old way will do.

Square up the part you cut to get a good base to make your real cut markings off of.

mark from the rear, not the front

take your time (and the tape really did help)

 

The cut at .85 gives you plenty of room before you get to .60 final fit (you can see the pencil mark on that last pic at .60)

 

I totally overthunk this thing, and sorry if I have wasted anyones time. I actually was wasting my own waiting for the part, which appears now to be arriving Monday (no diss to Greg, he got that thing out same day - I just live in off the beaten path of typical commerce.)

 

I will finish up when I can, but as of now I am cut as far as I can go....

Edited January 29, 2012 by negev5021

[saiga545 47]

The tape is a great idea! Wished I thought of it - would have helped.as it's more visible and precise than sharpie lines. The carpenter angle wasn't working for me either, it seems like it should have because the upper rail is parallel with the lower. I find it rewarding and enriching to work on my own weapons and don't regret not sending mine in at all. Mills and lathes are wonderful things, but true artistry comes from using your hands and eyes. My next project will be threading my Saiga 308 bbl - just got the threading tools in from Dinzag. I will post pics of that when done.

 

And BTW, you didn't waste anyone's time - it was fun reading your posts. It's good for us DIY gunsmiths to learn from eachother - take care!

[johnboatcat 24]

I have not cut mine yet but I am going to use a hose clamp to help guide the saw and keep it straight. I have already tried the hose clamp fit and I believe it will work well. I will have to reverse the clamp when I am half way through because of the screw mount.

[johnboatcat 24]

Who is going to admit to being the first to own a MKA 1919 pistol?

[saiga545 47]

GOD IT JUST OCCURRED TO ME - ALL BE IT A LITTLE LATE. My Dad has a table saw at his place - I should have used that. I porbably could have gotten to within 0.05 in on the first try - and the cut would have been perfect. Dang! I guess we all own the pistol now if you unbolt the stock!

[negev5021 25]

^{GOD IT JUST OCCURRED TO ME - ALL BE IT A LITTLE LATE. My Dad has a table saw at his place - I should have used that. I porbably could have gotten to within 0.05 in on the first try - and the cut would have been perfect. Dang! I guess we all own the pistol now if you unbolt the stock!}

 

 

^{I thought of that too, but the final cut is close enough to the end that the pistol grip is in the line of cut.. I would wonder if the blade might nick the grip to get all the way through...}

 

^{On another note - PARTS ARRIVED! Thank you Greg for getting the tube addapter added to my order when it was going out the door! OK so the kit comes with the plate, a new retention screw ( I was wondering how that was gonna work) and 2 additional allen screws, shorter than the ones that come with the tube stock adapter, to fit the thinner plate, and instructions:}

 

^{I had been dinking with mine over the weekend and had it squared up at about .70, and I just put the thing on to see how it sat:}

 

^{You can see that the right side is up a litlle, and I had room all the way around.. hmm. . took it off and saw a little mark wher it was binding, low on the inside:}

 

 

^{A little grind with the dremel fixed that and it was on!}

 

^{Here is the finished product:}

 

 

^{I am stoked! Good, relatively simple project with no catistrophic failure. Can't ask for more than that.}

Edited January 31, 2012 by negev5021

[johnboatcat 24]

Looks great. Nice job!

[Jasper 19]

Well done but this is why if I cant use a mill and make sure I will send it in. BUT at this point Im OK with the stock.

[OKC08GT500 1]

That is way beyond my skill set. I feel much more comfortable sending my MKA-1919 to Tromix whenever conversions are available.

[pikapp168 17]

I've decided to buy an MKA 1919 and want to do this, but I have to agree with the guy above, this is way beyond my skill set. I'll have to hire a gun smith to do it unless any of you all live close by and could do it

[negev5021 25]

Guys, just to be clear, I have zero "skillset" and I did it. If you have a level, a file and a hacksaw your in. Seriously, I am so far from handy it would make you laugh.

[pikapp168 17]

I have none of those so...

[TonyRumore 1,332]

Guys, just to be clear, I have zero "skillset" and I did it. If you have a level, a file and a hacksaw your in. Seriously, I am so far from handy it would make you laugh.

 

Damn....you did a real nice job on that......by hand no less.

 

Tony Rumore

Tromix

[negev5021 25]

Thank you very much; Could not have done it without you!

[johnboatcat 24]

FOR SAIL 90% of a MKA 1919 stock. Any offer given serious consideration. :-)

[pikapp168 17]

LOL

[johnboatcat 24]

After getting some great advice and tips here I decided to go for the big hack. I have the Firebird adapter because it was available first. Not trying to compare the pros and cons of adapters. Just telling you what and how I installed it so far.

 

At first I had no instructions from Jim, so I was on my own. I took my new collapsible stock and squared the two butts and then squared the top edges of the two stocks. I then secured the two stocks together with duck tape so that the two points remained square and the stock would still telescope. I used the caliper to measure the depth of the adapter and then found the place on the original stock that matched the adapter depth. I marked a line at this spot that matched the angle of the adapter mounted on the new stock and trued to the butt and top of the stock.

I then was able to talk with Jim and I got instructions to cut the stock 1.24 to 1.25" from the top front side with approximately a 1 degree angle toward the trigger guard. In the photo above you will see this line marked in pencil. The other pencil mark is the mold mark on the stock. I highlighted it so you would be able to see it in relation to Jim's instructions cut, closer to the front, and mine closer to the butt.

 

At this point I had the benefit of this thread to see that making some test cuts before trying the final cut was a good idea. So I thought I would give it a first test cut on my original measured (non-instructions) line. I chose a miter box saw as they have fine teeth but are broad and stiff to assist in a straight cut. You can get them about anywhere and are fairly cheap

.

To get my line on the opposite side of the stock to equal my first line, I measured the distance from the bottom of the original pencil line where another mold mark hits it to a mark on the butt about 1" above where the mold mark meets the butt. This mold mark is really where the stock transcends from the flat side to the round bottom. In the stock photo in the above reply you can see this mark well under the tape and the pencil dot at the butt. Does not matter where you mark as long as both sides are the same. Using these marks and a cloth tape measure I drew my lines for both sides and taped the line.

 

I put the stock in my Gun Grip shooting Vise with the pistol handle pointing up. This held it firmly on two ends of the stock. I used a carpenters square to square the tape line to the deck of the vise to help with a straight cut. I cut slowly, checking each side after every two or three saw cuts. It was a little hard to get started, but cut easily after the first few cuts. Took about five minutes to cut through. Went very slow for the last few cuts so as not to "break through" the last bit and get a splinter in the plastic. The cut was clean and only sanded to take away the sharp edges.

 

I then took it off the vise and tried the fit. You be the judge if it worked or not. Now I feel comfortable following the same procedure for the final cut, but I have a problem. Once I got the stock fully assembled and threw it up to my shoulder the the site placement was perfect. Tried a bunch more times and all the same. Perfect site line placement. The original stock never did that. I always had to hunt the site line. I chocked it up to new gun, but this configuration is perfect for me every time. I am going to take it out and range test it, but at this point I may just leave well enough alone.

 

You will see in the pictures below that once the adapter is bolted and tightened to the gun the adapter slides up a slight bit. This is caused by the angle of the bolt and adapter. I need to figure out how to stop this slight rise but it is not a deal killer. I had to use the original bolt as the one that came with the adapter was designed for the much closer instructions cut.

Edited February 1, 2012 by johnboatcat

[pikapp168 17]

Nice!!

[ShadowFire 220]

Guys, just to be clear, I have zero "skillset" and I did it. If you have a level, a file and a hacksaw your in. Seriously, I am so far from handy it would make you laugh.

 

Bravo man, nicely done. You're one example of what it says near my avatar here. You really CAN do it yourself. The right tools are out there along with the proper advice from guys like Tony too. Turn the wrench, make it happen. You CAN do it. But it won't happen if you don't get goin.

[RedDevilGuns 25]

i seriously am debating getting an mka this looks easy enough. and i like sharp objects. :-) just curious would i have rig a forend on it? or what are the options?

[BobAsh 582]

Guys, be careful out there.

 

We've already had the first feedback from someone that cut theirs too short...then the ground down the adapter, trying to make that work and ruined it as well.

 

Just GO SLOW. Mark the line on the gun. Check the measurement SEVERAL times. Have your buddy check the measurement. Cut 1/8" away, going slowly and making sure you're not cutting through the wrong part. Sand it up to the mark, fitting the adapter in as you go.