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JK-47

20" barreled 5.45x39mm rifle? seen on yet?

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That is a very good point. Probably no chance the barrel is threaded either.

 

Excuse me for asking, but for this caliber and barrel length, why the need for a muzzle device?

 

I was thinking a flash supressor. Plus, I like evil features like threaded barrels, it makes me warm and fuzzy inside.

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I did get a chance to go out and shoot my new 20" 5.45 Saiga pictured on the first page. The weather was frigidly cold and there were 35MPH winds that day so I didn't bother setting any targets up past 50 yards. With the weather as it was I didn't attempt to shoot for groups. Hopefully when the weather improves I can truly see what it is capable of in terms of precision.

 

My first impressions on how it shot were great. The iron sights were dead on out of the box. With the heavier and longer barrel it handled recoil like a champ. It had less noticeable recoil and muzzle rise than my Bulgarian 74 with the muzzle break. I certainly don't see any need for a muzzle device of any kind. I can see enough of the muzzle to confirm it doesn't have threads either. I would describe the recoil as close to nonexistent and I saw little muzzle flash.

 

Rapid firing at multiple targets was a piece of cake. It was front heavy, but not uncomfortably so. The heavier barrel seems to keep the heat in as well, because even after firing three mags in 5 minutes the handguard was still only a little warm. I won’t be bothering with modifying the front end for regular handguards now that I know that, so I can say my conversion is done. However I still intend to put a proper FSB and brake on my 16” saiga. On every target I set up the 20” Saiga outshot my 16” so I am optimistic that with the optic I will get very good groups soon. I put about 200 rounds through it and have had no malfunctions. All in all I am very happy with my purchase and it nicely rounds out my 5.45 collection.

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I ordered one of these yesterday from Classic and today got all the conversion parts and whatnot from CSS. I'll post pics and a report once I get it in and convert it. I can't wait! This'll make a great companion to my 16".

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I did get a chance to go out and shoot my new 20" 5.45 Saiga pictured on the first page. The weather was frigidly cold and there were 35MPH winds that day so I didn't bother setting any targets up past 50 yards. With the weather as it was I didn't attempt to shoot for groups. Hopefully when the weather improves I can truly see what it is capable of in terms of precision.

 

My first impressions on how it shot were great. The iron sights were dead on out of the box. With the heavier and longer barrel it handled recoil like a champ. It had less noticeable recoil and muzzle rise than my Bulgarian 74 with the muzzle break. I certainly don't see any need for a muzzle device of any kind. I can see enough of the muzzle to confirm it doesn't have threads either. I would describe the recoil as close to nonexistent and I saw little muzzle flash.

 

Rapid firing at multiple targets was a piece of cake. It was front heavy, but not uncomfortably so. The heavier barrel seems to keep the heat in as well, because even after firing three mags in 5 minutes the handguard was still only a little warm. I won’t be bothering with modifying the front end for regular handguards now that I know that, so I can say my conversion is done. However I still intend to put a proper FSB and brake on my 16” saiga. On every target I set up the 20” Saiga outshot my 16” so I am optimistic that with the optic I will get very good groups soon. I put about 200 rounds through it and have had no malfunctions. All in all I am very happy with my purchase and it nicely rounds out my 5.45 collection.

 

 

Thanks for the review, that sounds like a great rifle.

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Thanks for posting on this subject. I own several Siaga rifles, including one that was professionally converted from 7.62X39 to .223/5/56X45. Am interested in the longer barreled 5.45X39 or even a long barreled 7.62X39 as I have several .223 Siaga allready, as well as a Yugo in .223. Thanks for the Heads Up! I would convert it of course to my own likeing, and have some ideas allready. YodaMaadi - your photo's of what you have done with your rifle is great. Thanks.

 

In Freedom - From Central Florida ...

Edited by Hamerforged

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Wow madi that's a nice rifle and great info. Let us know how it shoots. Quick qestion. Does it have a round trunion or a flat one?

 

It has a Round Trunnion, actually both my saigas do.

 

 

I bought a 20" 5.45 SAIGA at J&G this past week.

 

Great looking rifle. It does have the .308 type front sight, heavy barrel and the one I bought had the flat cut bottom front trunnion. The display rifle had a round bottom trunnion. In addition mine had a Russian black plastic "Dragunov" type rear stock which was a welcome surprise. The sales man seemed kind of worried when we opened the box and saw the rear stock. He said are you sure you want this one? I said YES no problem!!!

 

I'll get some pics up later.

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I'm kinda nervous about my trunnion. I forgot to ask the lady at Classic if they were round or flat and by the time I was making my order at CSS it was after Classic's office hours. I just went ahead and ordered the round trunnion bullet guide based on Maadi's post. I hope it's the right one lol.

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Seems to me like getting a 20inch heavy barrel would only make an AK even more front end heavy and unbalanced, coupled with the fact that you cant reload 545 and no one makes match 545 ammo, this doesnt make much sense to me. Your still going to be shooting surplus ammo.

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The balance felt good, but it's not a typical short AK, more a heavy barrel marksman type gun. The test booklet said it shot a 1.5 CM group at 100 meters.......pretty good for an Ak. Heck pretty good for any rifle.

 

I think the trunnion type is a crap shoot. They just make the guns out of what they have on hand that day.

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Seems to me like getting a 20inch heavy barrel would only make an AK even more front end heavy and unbalanced, coupled with the fact that you cant reload 545 and no one makes match 545 ammo, this doesnt make much sense to me. Your still going to be shooting surplus ammo.

 

Well personally I've already got a 16" that is staying light and simple. This build is going to be more a designated marksman type build on a platform that I already happen to be stocking ammo and mags for, which is the main reason I'm buying one. As for balance, I'm not too concerned as it'll be used from a bipod mostly as opposed to off hand with the 16". Besides, my favorite rifle to shoot is my Mosin Nagant M91/30 and I doubt this rifle will come out anywhere near as front heavy as that thing. As for accuracy, well I guess I'll see in a few days.

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Heres some pic's. The model is called WPA IZ-141. It actually has a 20.5 inch barrel. It was made in 2011 and does not have the ugly cross out on the right rear of the receiver.

 

DSC05760-1.jpg

DSC05761-1-1.jpg

DSC05741.jpg

DSC05753-1.jpg

Edited by 545x39mm

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... The test booklet said it shot a 1.5 CM group at 100 meters.......pretty good for an Ak. Heck pretty good for any rifle.

dude, thats nearly 1/2 - MOA !

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I would love to see how the extra length affects muzzle velocities on 5.45. I have always heard the conventional wisdom that the 5.45 was designed for a 16" barrel. So maybe theres not a whole lot of propelant in the cartridge to take advantage of the extra barrel. But my guess is that with 60gr and above there will be a significant diff. It would certanly be a big help for .223. If it made a big difference with 7N6 that would be surprsing/cool.

 

I'd also love to see muzzle data on say 7N6 versus M855 5.56 on a 16" and 20" barrel.....

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anthony1

 

Posted Today, 12:03 AM

Seems to me like getting a 20inch heavy barrel would only make an AK even more front end heavy and unbalanced, coupled with the fact that you cant reload 545 and no one makes match 545 ammo, this doesnt make much sense to me. Your still going to be shooting surplus ammo.

 

 

first off hornady makes steel case match ammo.

 

second i have shot many 1.5 inch groups at 100 yards with surplus out of my 16" version, a 3-9-40 Nikon, and a bi-pod. i feel like if i can do that with my setup someone could do better with the 20" heavy barrel version. here is a picture of a group i shot at 100 yards with my 16". i cant wait to get a 20" and try it out.

 

 

20110819115335.jpg

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I have a East German SSG82 sniper rifle in 5.45x39. It has a 23.6 inch barrel. I've never chrono'ed and rounds ive shot out of it. But I can attest to its accuracy.

 

 

CRW_5394-3.jpg

 

CRW_5388-3.jpg

Edited by 545x39mm
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Hornady has a 545 load with the vmax bullet. Vmax, while it is a good bullet is considered a varmint round not match ammo. Amax is hornadys match bullet.

 

Im not trying to be a dick, but you cant just slap a heavy barrell on an AK and expect it to be any more accurate than a regular AK. In order to get an AK to be really accurate you would have to basically rebuild the whole gun to the point that it wouldn't really be much of an AK anymore AND then be able to work up a load for it, which isnt possible with 545. All l'm saying is the barrell only adressess one issue and accuracy is a combination of issues all working together, you really have to adress all the issues to get good results.

 

But anyways good luck.

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I've gotten 1.3 MOA with Silver Bear and 1.4 MOA with 7N6 out of a 16 inch barrel with 4x scope fired over a dirt berm.

 

I would be happy to get that from this new 20 inch heavier barrel and would be willing to wager I could even do a bit better.

 

We will see when I finally get mine.

 

M

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...

Im not trying to be a dick, but you cant just slap a heavy barrell on an AK and expect it to be any more accurate than a regular AK. In order to get an AK to be really accurate you would have to basically rebuild the whole gun to the point that it wouldn't really be much of an AK anymore AND then be able to work up a load for it, which isnt possible with 545. All l'm saying is the barrell only adressess one issue and accuracy is a combination of issues all working together, you really have to adress all the issues to get good results....

 

I would argue that you can just slap on a heavy barrel and expect improvements in group size. If the quality of the barrels are on par with each other, the heavy barrel will be an improvement. It won't give you a tackdriver but it's a step in the right direction.

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My 20" arrived a couple days ago. For some reason the parts from CSS are taking forever but they're scheduled to be here Monday. The wait is killing me.

post-19628-0-63185800-1330816364_thumb.jpg

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I received all my parts yesterday and did my conversion last night. I just now got back from the range after test firing. Unfortunately it was windy and the wind was very erratic so I didn't even bother setting up targets. I just "zeroed" my scope based on a few objects laying around the range. I can say it sure as hell felt accurate but I can't wait till a clear day to really see what it can do. I do have something interesting for you guys though; chrono results! It just so happened there was a gentleman there chroning some new handloads for his rifle and he was kind enough to shoot my rifles and get me some numbers.

 

My 16" and 20" were chronoed back to back using the same lot of 7N6 surplus. Doesn't get more consistent than that lol. The chrono was 15' from the muzzle and elevation roughly 5500'. Humidity 15%. Results over 5 shots for the 16" are as follows:

 

2930

2962

2904

2923

2969

Avg 2937.6 fps

 

The gentleman only shot 3 rounds through the 20" and stopped. Not sure why, maybe he thought the results were consistent enough after 3. I didn't want to wear out my welcome and he was such a nice guy so I didn't pester him to take more shots. Results:

 

3051

3051

3072

Avg 3058 fps

 

So there ya go, according to my limited testing, the 20" Saigas shoot ~120fps faster. The interesting thing to me is that it appears the 20" is more consistent. Perhaps the longer barrel sort of evens out irregularities in the powder load? If this admittedly limited testing turns out to be correct, then I could certainly see the 20" grouping more consistently just due to the more consistent velocities. I really wish it wasn't so darn windy! I'll say this though, once I figured out my scope a bit, I was able to hit a plate(not sure on exact size, maybe 16" by 16") at a verified 516yds very consistently. So I'd say this rifle's "effective range" easily exceeds 500yds, which is the number I see quoted repeatedly on the internet as the max effective range for a 5.45 AK.

 

A few notes: 1. UTG scope rings suck. Seriously. The screws kept coming loose and I had to tighten them down constantly. 2. I shot over 300 rds through this rifle today without a single malfunction. No surprises there. 3. I love the Magpul stock but I have one major complaint about it; it feels far nicer to handle and shoot than the Kvar on my 16", so now I'll be forced to spend more money to swap the stock on that one. 4. This is one heavy SOB and feels like it's at least 3-4lbs heavier than my 16"(the accessories add most of the weight I'm sure.)

 

So far I'm loving this rifle but I have a few future plans. First I need to change the scope rings. Not only because they're terrible but because they're too low. As you can see in the pics below the scope is set really far to the rear. I was forced to do this because the bell hits the dogleg mount if it's any further forward. So I need some higher mount rings to clear the mount so the scope can go into a location that isn't absolutely silly, and I'd prefer quick release too. I also would like a cheek riser for the stock, especially after I raise the scope another 3/16"-1/4" inch that it needs to clear. I'll probably get the extended butt pad from Magpul just so it gives the stock great purchase on my shoulder and makes the cheek weld further forward as well. And of course a sling.

 

I'll address all those issues probably within the next few days, but longer term I've got some plans as well. I'd like a higher quality scope in general. I want the front sight moved back slightly so the barrel can be threaded 1/2x28 so I can throw an AAC Blackout on there. I'll get a backup sight, either the TWS peep or preferably a rail mount HK style sight if one exists with the proper height. And I may go for one of those 45 degree angled mounts to hang a red dot off the side as well, because as is it's almost impossible to shoot quick accurate follow up shots off hand with only the scope. Granted, I have my 16" which will be getting an Aimpoint for that, but I'd still like the ability to use this 20" in a role other than long range marksmanship to expand my options.

 

Enough jabber, onto the pics:

post-19628-0-93158400-1331080617_thumb.jpg

post-19628-0-07066300-1331080692_thumb.jpg

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Nice rifle and thanks for the information.

 

Looks like the RSB, GB and FSB are all pinned in place on the 20" version?

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I would like to add one thing I forgot to mention when I converted my 20" 5.45. It would not work with a Tapco G2 trigger. The tab on the selector that engages the rear legs of the trigger was too short. When the safety was engaged the trigger would still fire. So I put in an old Century made two-stage trigger group which I had laying around for nearly a decade. It was from an old WASR-10 before they put in the Tapco triggers. It would engage the safety because it had longer legs extending from the back of the trigger. So those considering this rifle may need to consider a different trigger group or selector if the selector ends up being like the one in my rifle. My advice to anyone who converts one of these rifles, or any Saiga really, would be to engage the safety and make sure their rifle doesn't fire! When it happened for me I was luckily just function testing with no ammo so I only heard a sudden click. I would hate to see someone have an accidental discharge.

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I would like to add one thing I forgot to mention when I converted my 20" 5.45. It would not work with a Tapco G2 trigger. The tab on the selector that engages the rear legs of the trigger was too short. When the safety was engaged the trigger would still fire. So I put in an old Century made two-stage trigger group which I had laying around for nearly a decade. It was from an old WASR-10 before they put in the Tapco triggers. It would engage the safety because it had longer legs extending from the back of the trigger. So those considering this rifle may need to consider a different trigger group or selector if the selector ends up being like the one in my rifle. My advice to anyone who converts one of these rifles, or any Saiga really, would be to engage the safety and make sure their rifle doesn't fire! When it happened for me I was luckily just function testing with no ammo so I only heard a sudden click. I would hate to see someone have an accidental discharge.

 

 

The same problem with the 308. Carolina Shooters supply sells the proper safety lever.

 

M

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