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922R remarks by by dealer/importer


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Met a friend of a friend at the range who happens to be the owner of a firearm business.

 

He told me it was illegal to work on (in this context - convert) one's own firearm. He was adamant and I did not argue.

 

Just throwing that out there...I believe he is wrong.

 

[EDIT] Sorry about the by by thing in title. Still on first first coffee.

Edited by chunga
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Of course he's wrong about doing your own conversion as we know it, but I wonder if he thought you were talking about something else. Like maybe converting to FA.

Nope...I had two converted Saigas on the bench. We talked later about the "Slide-Fire" stock and he predicted it will be banned soon. Also predicted a "crack-down" on these conversions done by owners. I described my parts count and he insisted it doesn't matter. Mine have compliance parts to spare and I don't need to count mags.

 

It did get me to thinking though...although I have no intention of selling...what if I did?

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LOL Been there, done that. I had so many dealers/ shop owners try to tell me crap of what's legal and not. Everything from you cant build an AK from parts kits, to you cant cut a Mosin barrel down to 16", a pistol grip on a Mossberg 500 is for law enforcement only. Oh the horror of those guys. But on the same token, those places seem to be the ones that dont know how to price some toys. I've stolen some nice rifles from those folks. F'n FUDDs

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well it aint no different than fuckers trying to say that a special license is required and losing your 4th amendment right to own nfa items too. people are dumb as shit, plain and simple and usually too damn lazy or stupid to do the research themselves. and they always seem to be the know-it-all type of assholes who think they have to one-up everyone and that only those who ask questions are idiots. i deal with them on a daily basis and in my local shops. i usually just laugh at them, and tell them to keep thinking that...

 

usually the more they open thier mouth the more thier stupidity starts to shine.

 

you did good though by not trying to prove him wrong. you cant reason with assholes like this. they have to be right all the time. it may have gotten heated rather quickly when you start stating facts.

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The amount of rediculous shit l've heard about my suppressed 22lrs is overwhelming. I've also noticed in general firearms of any type attract high amounts of fucking retards, way moreso than other hobbies of mine. I honestly can barely even deal with going to a gun shop a gun show is out of the question. Thank god for the internet, order, pick it up, done. I generally just say l dont know anything about guns if a random asshat trys to tell me something regarding fireams.

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I have to agree with you. There is a lot of ignorance about laws and even firearms themselves coming straight out of manufacturers, dealers, and gun shops.

 

Had one recently argue with me that a Vz58 was an AK - same caliber and looks like an AK, so it has to be one, right? A guy in Cabela's had a discussion with a gun counter employee about how an AK will fire any caliber of ammunition and thus is why it's so popular in the third world. I tried to politely explain how untrue that was, and how dangerous that would be to try, but only got blank stares. Would these same people try to shoot 9mm out of their .45?

 

It's always a losing battle. I don't bother trying to talk to these people any more, because as you've said, they're all "right."

Edited by mancat
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My AK can fire 300 Win Mag?I wish that guy would have told me that

 

i told a guy at the gun store the other day that if i load mine with energy cells i can fire it in 40 watt range. his look was priceless. i dont think he seen terminator.

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Damn I am glad I live in Idaho...we don't have to deal with this crap hardly at all.

 

Same in MT.

 

I was at the shop yesterday, and some Commiefornicated idiot(aka transplant) was trying to tell the shop owner that all his ARs were illegal because they didn't have bullet buttons and came with 30 round "clips". I tapped the guy on the shoulder and pointed at the case full of suppresors/threaded barrel pistols. "I guess those are illegal too, huh?" I still swear the guy dropped a steamer in his drawers. haha.gif

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  • 1 month later...

The only time anyone would be looking at it would be if you used it in some sort of crime and got busted. I was out taking pics of my Saiga conversion today and a deputy sheriff that I know casually happened to drive by and saw me in the back yard and stopped in just to shoot the shit, and here I come out of the back yard hauling this Evil Black Rifle, and since it's a warm day, I'm not wearing any cover over my usually concealed Ruger P95, just a tucked in Ashirt with the pistol in a IWB holster. He shakes his head and laughs, and asks if I'm getting ready for the Zombies... I ask him "You ever been in Walmart at 3AM? They're already here!"

Then of course he had to check out the Saiga, asked a zillion questions and said he might get one for his cruiser as they are allowed to purchase and carry their own long gun. I offered to do the conversion if he gets one, he said he'd take me up on that, asked if my 03 license let me do gunsmithing, I asked him if he was going to tell if it didn't? Most cops I know couldnt care less as long as you aren't out planning to take out any LEO's or cause problems.

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I was showing my .223 to a trooper buddy of mine and loved it. Wants me to "help" him do his conversion.

 

OTH, the FFL I got my saigas shipped to was shocked when I told him I was going to do the conversion myself. He said he could pretty much guarantee that there was a 50% chance the gun would blow up the first time I shot it and an 80% chance I would ruin the rifle and never get to shoot it.

He DID have this buddy gunsmith he knew that could do it for me rolleyes.gif

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A few points for you guys, for future reference/arguement.

 

As you may or may not be aware, I have a solid and pretty thorough understanding of the firearms laws and BATF procedures, due to various past dealings in the industry, specifically relating to the Saiga.

 

What is manufacturing considered to be? It is one changing from factory condition, any part or piece of a firearm, all the way down to the paint.

 

Gunsmithing is considered to be replacing broken parts with identical ones.

 

When you need either license, is stated very clearly by the BATF - the verbage is "for pricipal means of profit". BATF has stated that working on friends firearms to help them out, is just fine.

 

So if you are building saigas up, and then selling them off over time, that is a grey area, and you CAN be in violation, depending which agent reviews your transfers.

 

If you put a camo paint job on the gun, or change the color, you are maunfacturing.

 

If you even change the stock out to an SVD type, you are manufacturing.

 

BUT IF YOU ARE NOT DOING IT FOR PRINCIPLE MEANS OF PROFIT IN MIND - (this is NOT intended by the BATF to mean "primary income")

 

Well, tell whoever told you that what the real laws and the real facts, and tell them to shove it up thier bunghole.

 

 

 

 

....as an aside....

If you sit at a flea market selling your "private collection" while also having a fucking AD IN THE LOCAL PAPER THAT READS "I BUY GUNS". you are dealing in firearms. (dont even get me going on this one, I had it out with a flea market vendor recently to where the sheriff had to show up)

Edited by Ben Vampatella
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Pretty easy for him to say the "slide fire" stock POS will be banned soon considering they already banned the identical stock for the SKS. I wouldn't touch one of those with a 50 foot pole and someone else holding it smile.png That said, I see so many Saiga's with 30 rounders stuck in them and NO conversion that I really don't imagine the ATF will be bothering with guys who actually follow parts counts and do the conversions properly.

Edited by 7.62smith
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Pretty easy for him to say the "slide fire" stock POS will be banned soon considering they already banned the identical stock for the SKS. I wouldn't touch one of those with a 50 foot pole and someone else holding it smile.png That said, I see so many Saiga's with 30 rounders stuck in them and NO conversion that I really don't imagine the ATF will be bothering with guys who actually follow parts counts and do the conversions properly.

 

No, they're too busy setting up gun dealers with straw purchases, then losing track of the weapons, that are later used to kill US law enforcement agents...

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  • 2 weeks later...

Yet,if any gun shop dealer ends up with a Mak-90 converted to pistol grip they have np sticking it on thier shelf....922r or not,.

 

I traded a non-converted NHM91 on a pistol once,went back to the shop weeks later and they converted it over with crapco stuff and put up for almost double of what it's worth.

 

Do I care...nope...that's capitalism.

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  • 2 months later...

A few points for you guys, for future reference/arguement.

 

As you may or may not be aware, I have a solid and pretty thorough understanding of the firearms laws and BATF procedures, due to various past dealings in the industry, specifically relating to the Saiga.

 

What is manufacturing considered to be? It is one changing from factory condition, any part or piece of a firearm, all the way down to the paint.

 

Gunsmithing is considered to be replacing broken parts with identical ones.

 

When you need either license, is stated very clearly by the BATF - the verbage is "for pricipal means of profit". BATF has stated that working on friends firearms to help them out, is just fine.

 

So if you are building saigas up, and then selling them off over time, that is a grey area, and you CAN be in violation, depending which agent reviews your transfers.

 

If you put a camo paint job on the gun, or change the color, you are maunfacturing.

 

If you even change the stock out to an SVD type, you are manufacturing.

 

BUT IF YOU ARE NOT DOING IT FOR PRINCIPLE MEANS OF PROFIT IN MIND - (this is NOT intended by the BATF to mean "primary income")

 

Well, tell whoever told you that what the real laws and the real facts, and tell them to shove it up thier bunghole.

 

 

 

 

....as an aside....

If you sit at a flea market selling your "private collection" while also having a fucking AD IN THE LOCAL PAPER THAT READS "I BUY GUNS". you are dealing in firearms. (dont even get me going on this one, I had it out with a flea market vendor recently to where the sheriff had to show up)

 

Good summary. That's my understanding as well. You have to be "manufacturing" firearms for sale to require a license.

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