TwentyNizzo 66 Posted February 11, 2012 Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 (edited) Man, I have never been so pumped to pick up any firearm as this new S12. I will have pics forthcoming as unfortunately my camera battery is dead. My personal opinion after holding it for just 20 minutes or so and disassembling is that it's worth the cost over an IZ109 without question. The hinged topcover with picitinny rail, AK100 style gas block/front sight combo, magwell, and bolt hold open are all huge upgrades over the standard S12. Also, my hunch is the gas system is self regulating based on what I see, but who knows at this point. It is interesting IMO that the front trunion is welded to the receiver...looks like Dinzag was ahead of the curve. The other question I suppose is 922r, and will the parts counts be the same as the standard S12? The front handguards look like a direct change to a US version. Muzzle nut is metal. My only real dissapointment is that my VEPR mag that I fit to my magwell 109 doesn't fit in the IZ433, and the 2 4rd mags don't fit in my 109. Oh well. I've read supposedly Legion is importing OEM 8s which will be awesome. Alex@Legion was very helpful, I highly recommend them. EDIT: Other thing I noticed, mine has an optic side rail? I thought these weren't supposed to have them. Only other thought at this time....who will be the first to SBS one of these? 8" with a set of Krink handguards and an AK100 folder and I'll be drooling.. Edited February 11, 2012 by TwentyNizzo 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mullet Man 2,114 Posted February 11, 2012 Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 Pics or this thread is ~worthless! 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
beefcakeb99 572 Posted February 11, 2012 Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 now i want one! they are making me green with envy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TwentyNizzo 66 Posted February 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 It's a must have for a true saiga/AK enthusiast IMO. Now I just need to decide on the conversion. Do it at home or send it professionally. My initial thought was to put something like a CTR stock on it, but just looking at it, it's begging for an AK100 folder. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted February 12, 2012 Report Share Posted February 12, 2012 It's a must have for a true saiga/AK enthusiast IMO. Now I just need to decide on the conversion. Do it at home or send it professionally. My initial thought was to put something like a CTR stock on it, but just looking at it, it's begging for an AK100 folder. Anything short of a 5.5mm pin AK100 stock would be a despicable shame. A CTR on there would make evl very sad Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vitamink 90 Posted February 12, 2012 Report Share Posted February 12, 2012 So you purchased this direct from legion then? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spacehog 2,218 Posted February 12, 2012 Report Share Posted February 12, 2012 How stable is the rail on top of the receiver cover? Normally, I wouldn't trust that setup for optics. Has Legion done something to mitigate play in the cover itself? Just curious, not trying to take away from your new purchase. It is sharp, and will be even nicer after conversion! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AK77 2 Posted February 12, 2012 Report Share Posted February 12, 2012 Beautiful Shotgun Congrats! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
todmich 16 Posted February 12, 2012 Report Share Posted February 12, 2012 Very very nice Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mullet Man 2,114 Posted February 12, 2012 Report Share Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) How stable is the rail on top of the receiver cover? Normally, I wouldn't trust that setup for optics. Has Legion done something to mitigate play in the cover itself? Just curious, not trying to take away from your new purchase. It is sharp, and will be even nicer after conversion! Its a hinged cover, it pivots on the rear sight block. Should be rock solid. TwentyNizzo, post some close up pics of the gas block and piston setup (internal and external), if ya dont mind. Edited February 12, 2012 by Mullet Man Quote Link to post Share on other sites
beefcakeb99 572 Posted February 12, 2012 Report Share Posted February 12, 2012 well evl, the svds does look mighty sexy as well 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted February 12, 2012 Report Share Posted February 12, 2012 well evl, the svds does look mighty sexy as well Oh yes, it would be awesome with one of those, but the price is just plain insane on them. Even makes me cringe when I see one for sale, once in a blue moon.... I wish I could find someone that had a few and didn't realize what they sell for. How stable is the rail on top of the receiver cover? Normally, I wouldn't trust that setup for optics. Has Legion done something to mitigate play in the cover itself? Just curious, not trying to take away from your new purchase. It is sharp, and will be even nicer after conversion! Its a hinged cover, it pivots on the rear sight block. Should be rock solid. TwentyNizzo, post some close up pics of the gas block and piston setup (internal and external), if ya dont mind. +1 a good shot of the pin orientation on the gas block would be beneficial as well. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alpha Kilo 42 Posted February 12, 2012 Report Share Posted February 12, 2012 It is interesting IMO that the front trunion is welded to the receiver I hope that this was a mistake in your understandable excitement and in actuality the rear sight block is welded to the front trunnion. Please post a pic if you would. Thanks Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ramlake 98 Posted February 12, 2012 Report Share Posted February 12, 2012 It is interesting IMO that the front trunion is welded to the receiver I hope that this was a mistake in your understandable excitement and in actuality the rear sight block is welded to the front trunnion. Please post a pic if you would. Thanks Yes RSB welded to front truniun Legion has been doing this for years on many other models. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TwentyNizzo 66 Posted February 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2012 It is interesting IMO that the front trunion is welded to the receiver I hope that this was a mistake in your understandable excitement and in actuality the rear sight block is welded to the front trunnion. Please post a pic if you would. Thanks you're absolutely right. I realized my mistake about 15 minutes after the post but was too lazy to correct it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alpha Kilo 42 Posted February 12, 2012 Report Share Posted February 12, 2012 That's good, I was hoping that was the case, but having never seen one, ya never know. congrats on your acquisition Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TwentyNizzo 66 Posted February 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 Took the 030 out shooting today. I had NO malfunctions with any type of ammunition ranging from federal bulk pack to 3" magnum buckshot. The LRBHO works flawlessly. The 3" magnum buckshot recoil was absolutely brutal and I believe was more intense than I've ever experienced on my IZ109 when I could manage the gas with the V plug. It shot 2.75" slugs well and accurately through the AK style sights, which I like a lot. Overall, I am really pleased with this shotgun and see it as the future of the S12 platform. Once some hi-cap mags become available, this thing is really going to rock. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
beefcakeb99 572 Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 what was the grand total? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TwentyNizzo 66 Posted February 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 1219 shipped I believe, and then add on the cost of conversion (which will be variable of course depending on how it's done) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mullet Man 2,114 Posted February 14, 2012 Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 Show off some gas system pics. It breaks down like a standard AK right? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TwentyNizzo 66 Posted February 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 Breaks down exactly like an AK. I Think mine has 5 gas ports, but it's hard to see without a flashlight and mirror Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mullet Man 2,114 Posted February 14, 2012 Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 So is it a puck and op rod like a 108/109, or built like a rifle with a full length piston? Pics dude, you're killing me! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TwentyNizzo 66 Posted February 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 I'll get some pics soon, battery on the camera died again (it's old). It's a puck and op rod like the 109, but the end of the piston tapers down and inserts into the puck itself. The end of the piston also has something along the lines of a half notch in it which I'm guessing serves to bleed off excess gas in some way? Pics of the gas system have been posted on here before, I'll get some here soon hopefully. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ramlake 98 Posted February 14, 2012 Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 I'll get some pics soon, battery on the camera died again (it's old). It's a puck and op rod like the 109, but the end of the piston tapers down and inserts into the puck itself. The end of the piston also has something along the lines of a half notch in it which I'm guessing serves to bleed off excess gas in some way? Pics of the gas system have been posted on here before, I'll get some here soon hopefully. No bleed off, it's on the back of the tappet Took the 030 out shooting today. I had NO malfunctions with any type of ammunition ranging from federal bulk pack to 3" magnum buckshot. The LRBHO works flawlessly. The 3" magnum buckshot recoil was absolutely brutal and I believe was more intense than I've ever experienced on my IZ109 when I could manage the gas with the V plug. It shot 2.75" slugs well and accurately through the AK style sights, which I like a lot. Overall, I am really pleased with this shotgun and see it as the future of the S12 platform. Once some hi-cap mags become available, this thing is really going to rock. I believe the gas system has no gas compensating mechanism at all. With 2 3/4 buck mine shows heavy carrier strikes on the rear trunuin. I personally am not going to shoot 3" magnums thru an 030 at this time.................. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TwentyNizzo 66 Posted February 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 Per Izzy, the 030 is designed to shoot all types of shotgun shells known. I have no qualms putting magnums through it. I have a hard time believing a military shotgun won't stand up to magnum loads long term, but who knows. If it fails, so be it, but I will push it. On a side note, finished my second can of 5.45x39 through my SGL-31-94 today without any problems. That's 2160 rounds without a malfunction. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ramlake 98 Posted February 14, 2012 Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 Per Izzy, the 030 is designed to shoot all types of shotgun shells known. I have no qualms putting magnums through it. I have a hard time believing a military shotgun won't stand up to magnum loads long term, but who knows. If it fails, so be it, but I will push it. On a side note, finished my second can of 5.45x39 through my SGL-31-94 today without any problems. That's 2160 rounds without a malfunction. Your right about izzy saying t's designed to shoot all types of shotgun shells known but there is something about these 030's that differ greatly from the russian conterparts and I can't believe no one has noticed..... There is a reason you stated....recoil was absolutely brutal and I believe was more intense than I've ever experienced on my IZ109 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mullet Man 2,114 Posted February 14, 2012 Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 there is something about these 030's that differ greatly from the russian conterparts and I can't believe no one has noticed..... Because no one has noticed it in the pics or because no one really knows why yet? Whats the deal? I like these but $1200+ and a battered rear trunnion, makes me hesitant. A mashed up trunnion leads to a cracked bolt carrier. Be careful gents. Thanks for the pics, i must have missed them else where. Do they have a bleeder hole for the gas system like a 109, or are they suppose to bleed off thru the gas tube like a rifle? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
beefcakeb99 572 Posted February 14, 2012 Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 yea spit it out!! from your pics, it looks exactly as shown from way back... does it say 030 on the gun? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ramlake 98 Posted February 14, 2012 Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 yea spit it out!! from your pics, it looks exactly as shown from way back... does it say 030 on the gun? There is no bleed off. There is no self adjusting mechanism. The difference between the russian ( designed to shoot all types of shotgun shells known) and it's american import is shown on every picture, from every wesite selling these americanized weapons (030 clones) If the gas system is exactly the same then what other varible can allow low brass to function? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted February 14, 2012 Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 The gas system is totally different! Look at the pix, the Op rod is extended into the piston. The piston has 1/2 the mass of the old one, and the OP rod mass is increased. The point of contact between the piston and the OP rod is moved closer to the piston face. This keeps the piston from cocking in the bore and wasting energy. Look at a piston in an engine - the rod connects to the piston as close to the top as practical.The new design puts more energy into the bolt group and wastes less on the floating piston. Hopefully, one or two of our resident parts makers will come up with a retro-fit for our older models! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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