Barnaul HP Ammo in Bulk

[Wolverine 10,360]

For those looking for Barnaul 7.62x39 HP ammo in bulk try this link:

 

http://www.dansammo.com/ammo.asp

 

I know nothing about the vendor but know it is not easy to find Barnaul in bulk lots...especially for less than $100 per 1,000 rds.

 

W.

[sportsnut 0]

For those looking for Barnaul 7.62x39 HP ammo in bulk try this link:

 

http://www.dansammo.com/ammo.asp

 

I know nothing about the vendor but know it is not easy to find Barnaul in bulk lots...especially for less than $100 per 1,000 rds.

 

W. 

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Dan is one of the good guys!

[stokstad 4]

I am curious... What is it about Barnaul ammo that is so appealing? I see it come up quite a bit and I always wonder whats so special about it. As you can tell Ive never owned any So I have no idea.

[SaigaShooter 0]

I'm not sure if this holds true for the HP, but the Barnaul FMJ is more accurate than Wolf, and it is also cleaner burning. Barnaul also laquers their cases, and uses a red sealant around the neck of the casing and bullet as well as around the primer. Wolf only seals the primers on their ammo.

 

In the pic, the Wolf round is on the left and the Barnaul is on the right.

Edited September 9, 2005 by SaigaShooter

[Gaddis 1,689]

Um, you sure that's not the other way around?

 

Looks like Wolf is on the right to me.

 

Besides my Wolf S.P.'s have laquer on both the primer and case mouth.

[IndyArms 10,186]

Thats without a doubt WOLF On the left... the steel grey case is the giveaway... as with all their cases that I have seen for 7.62, .223, and .308... *ALL* are that same medium grey color...

 

Some have had laquer, some didnt...

 

I hear mixed reviews on laquer too.. especially in the .223 AR's... supposedly it gums them all up..

 

Saigas being less forgiving a rifle will not be so fussy nor prone to such things... unless you REALLY shoot a LOT of ammo...

 

I know a guy, who just last weekend I showed him how to field strip and clean his AK-47... he was like "wow... I did not know how to take it apart..."

 

Hes been shooting it for almost TWO YEARS NOW!!!!!!! GO FIGURE?!?!?!? Still... it shot great and ran like a top... good ol' WASR10...

 

 

[SaigaShooter 0]

Um, you sure that's not the other way around?

 

Looks like Wolf is on the right to me.

 

Besides my Wolf S.P.'s have laquer on both the primer and case mouth.

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Unless there was an accident and the factories were sent the wrong the cases and packaging.

 

All the wolf I've seen has been the dull gray with a sealant on the primer, and all the barnaul i've used has been the OD color with sealent on the primer and neck.

[NoTreason4 0]

All the wolf I've seen has been the dull gray with a sealant on the primer, and all the barnaul i've used has been the OD color with sealent on the primer and neck.

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You're both right. Wolf, and I think all Russian ammo, used to look like the one on the right-- dark green, red sealant.

 

Then wolf made some changes and went to an internal bullet sealant, and a "poly" lacquer.

 

So, old wolf looks just like current barnaul, which looks like the round on the right. New wolf is on the left. I think there's still old wolf in the sales channel.

 

Has anyone pulled a bullet to verify that wolf isn't sealing the bullets in, or is that just speculation? I believe they are sealing the bullets...

 

-----

 

Barnaul is reported to be more accurate, but I'm not accurate enough to be able to tell.

 

It seems the downside to russian ammo is the steel jacket. "Bimetal" means its copper washed bullets, and apparently the steel inner jacket prevents expansion in hollowpoints, and degrades performance of soft points.

 

From what I've read on other forums, Uly (Ulyavonosk, they make the "effect" silver bear match, and can be found in the 700 round spam cans) makes a HP bullet that fragments effectively.

 

Wolf HP and FMJ don't do much, but their SP is supposed to expand some. Barnaul SP is the most commonly cited "My favorite round" from what I can tell, mostly for accuracy, but also because it does expand.

 

I'm keen on this issue because I'm planning to stock up on ammo now. I'm not confident it won't be cut off in the future... and I'm trying to find the best round.

 

Unfortunately, I'm unaware of any ballistic gelatin tests comparing different manufactures of Russian Ammo... and the only tests I know of were FMJ from the 60s, and weren't very good.

 

So, hopefully someone has taken some time and at least done water tests they can share with us. IT seems that for so many AK owners out there, someone should have done it. Hell, I've looked into doing it myself. But it seems the guys who do all this stuff-- ammolab.com won't allow us "civilians" to see their results.

Edited September 9, 2005 by NoTreason4

[IndyArms 10,186]

MAYBE we need to send this thread to the guys at "BOX-O-TRUTH" ????

 

 

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

I am curious... What is it about Barnaul ammo that is so appealing?  I see it come up quite a bit and I always wonder whats so special about it. As you can tell Ive never owned any So I have no idea.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I bought a case of Barnaul SP a couple of yrs ago from Classic Arms for around 80 bucks if I recall. I've been very happy with it. I decided on that particular kind because of a water test I read about on Assaultweb. There was a guy who tested all the popular brands and came to the conclusion that Barnaul SP had the best accuracy and bullet expansion combined. Has anyone seen Barnaul SP for sale anywhere recently? Maybe I need to save the rest of it for hunting and get a case of fmj for plinking. Also I know the Barnaul shotgun ammo is Berdan primed. Is this also true for the rifle rounds?

[IndyArms 10,186]

I would say with 95% certainty it is....

 

All of the barnaul ammo I have ever shot was berdan primed...

 

Just the way they do it over there...

 

 

[Gaddis 1,689]

You're both right.  Wolf, and I think all Russian ammo, used to look like the one on the right-- dark green, red sealant.

 

Then wolf made some changes and went to an internal bullet sealant, and a "poly" lacquer. 

 

So, old wolf looks just like current barnaul, which looks like the round on the right.  New wolf is on the left.  I think there's still old wolf in the sales channel.

 

Has anyone pulled a bullet to verify that wolf isn't sealing the bullets in, or is that just speculation?  I believe they are sealing the bullets...

 

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Christ, my ammo's that old?

 

You're right, Wolf did change over to a new polymer coating that is supposedly grey in appearance.

 

Looks like it's nigh time for me to get off my fat ass and start shooting again so's I can see how the new stuff performs.

[NoTreason4 0]

I think Box-o-truth, or something is required here. I went to Assaultweb to try and find that comparison article, and also checked out the "Terminal ballistics" Forum at Tactical forums.

 

Clearly it seems we're all mostly spreading aroudn the info generated by just a couple people. There was someone called "obersholts" who used to have a test thread up, but its been taken down from a couple forums. And then there's "Yoda".

 

Yoda says Uly HP fragments great, and that Barnaul SP doesn't expand. Obersholts said (I think since I cant find the article) that Barnaul was most accurate, with "Good expansion"

 

I'd really like to see someone do a test including wolf SP, also.

 

Maybe we can lobby the box-o-truth guys to compare russian ammo in 7.62x39. I'd like to see Uly HP, Uly Effect, Uly SP, Barnaul SP, Barnaul HP and Wolf SP and Wolf HP compared.

 

Even better would be if two or three of us do our own tests as well. 8 tests with 2 different conclusions is better than 2 tests with 2 different conclusions-- at least a trend might come out of more testing.

 

Right now, I think we're all just going on what other people say, as far as terminal ballistics goes. Consistently, though, a variety of people say barnaul is more accurate, so we can presume that to likley be the case, and its easy to test.

 

If Barnaul HP is good like Uly HP is claimed to be, then it might be the ideal round to buy in bulk.

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Good idea man. I have a few plastic drums I can use. All I have on hand right now for ammo is the Barnaul SP, Russian HP, Chinese FMJ, and probably a couple more, I'll have to look. Mabe a few different people would be willing to trade some ammo around and we could do a better test with a variety of different shells. I have a digi cam and can take pics of the results and make notes on my end.

[NoTreason4 0]

What size drums? We could probably get away with some redundancy and improve our conclusions by replicating the tests. EG: if we pick a standard for the testing setup up, and then we each do tests with some overlapping ammo and come to the same conclusions, then we can be pretty confident. Even if we reach different conclusions, then the data would be useful.

 

So, since water seems to be the cheap thing to shoot, maybe there's a standard size plastic drum we can buy to use? Milk containers actually vary a bit. Maybe those blue 30 galon drums, and the bullet holes can be patched with duct tape during testing?

[Bvamp 604]

water will destroy just about any round out there. you might think about phone books soaked in water, pine boards with 1" gaps between them, or even modeling clay or just plain wet masons sand.

[IndyArms 10,186]

sand is REALLY the BEST AMMO stopper out there... why do you think the military uses sandbags and not milkjugs, or layers of wet phone books?

 

6 - 8 inches of sandbag should stop just about ANY ROUND you throw at it... (mind you thats for a normal person with a normal weapon shooting it... not some military 20MM shell, or bigger... duh!)

 

 

Then just open the bag and dig for your spent shells... they will be in there somplace...

 

 

[Wolverine 10,360]

I seem to recall Dodge did some testing comparing Wolf and Barnaul. I believe he concluded the Barnaul was more accurate. I think he posted his results on one of the older threads here.

 

As for bulk Barnaul, check this vendor out. His web site shows HP, FMJ & SP in .223 and 7.62.

 

He also show real Aussie .308 ammo, not the Argentina contract ammo made for Australia.

 

 

http://70.84.217.219/cgi-bin/store/agora.c...568.7493*5P5eL8

[pistonring8 1]

I love the "Box O' Truth" !!!!

 

Yea, somebody resurrect Dodges old balistics test. Or just link to it for us.

 

I just bought another 1000 rounds of Wolf FMJ at Cabelas, so if you guys are swapping around ammo, I got some to trade.

 

BTW, milk jugs full of water explode when you shoot them with an AK. FMJ, SP, HP it doesent matter, they just desintegrate!

 

Im doing pretty good with Wolf. I can hit a paper plate at 100 yards every time. Hell, thats all I need anyway. Wolf is mostly accurate, we all know its not the best, but its damn cheap! It has only let me down 1 time out of thousands. A primer pushed in and did not fire. (Click) Eject / Chamber, keep shooting. I like it, no complaints here. Heck, at 50 yards and closer it does pretty damn good!

[Wolverine 10,360]

 

'Yea, somebody resurrect Dodges old balistics test. Or just link to it for us."

 

 

 

I found it. Here is Dodge's ammo test post.

 

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=4870

 

W.

Edited September 19, 2005 by Wolverine

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Nice job fishing Wolverine! I thought I remembered seeing that before. So dodge, you still looking to trade that 8rd mag for a case of fmj if I can find it? Nice test! I'm still convinced the Barnaul is better bang for the buck. Where are the results from the 5.45/.223 test? I would like to see those too.

I have plenty of sand, burlap sacs, water, and 55gallon plastic drums. I will probably still conduct some sort of test on my own. If anyone has some assorted ammo they would like for me to include let me know. If anyone wants to work together and do more than one test under the same conditions I'm willing to trade some of my ammo for different stuff.

Any more votes on sandbags vs. water filled barrel? Wet phone books are supposed to be closer to flesh consistency but it would take a lot of them and the water/sand would be easier and consistent for bullet expansion/fragmentation. We could also rig up a box-o-truth to test the better performing ammo for penetration and fragmentation.

The guns I would be using are my Maadi AK, Norinco SKS, and Saiga.

 

Ideas?

[NoTreason4 0]

By the way-- Monarch = Blue Box = Hunting Rifle Guy = RAM = Silver, Brown & Golden Bear == Barnaul. All of this is different forms of Barnaul.

 

Sapsam = Green/White HP & Blue/White/Stripe FMJ = Uly. Ulyanovosk- not sure of the spelling.

 

Golden Tiger == Vympel

 

Wolf = Tula Cartridge Works.

 

The Silver Bear Match is also Uly, the only Bear Rifle Cartridge not made by Barnaul.

 

So, I'd suggest that the things to test are:

Wolf HP

Wolf SP

Barnaul (any variety) HP

Barnaul (any variety) SP

Uly HP

Uly SP

Wolf Copper (not bi-metal) HP

Wolf Copper SP

 

Or, whatever of those you have on hand. I think the bullets are more critical than the particular brand (eg: Monarch or RAM HP are going to be the same cartridge from Barnaul, just in a different box.)

 

I'm going to try to scare up some testing, but it probably won't be until mid to late october. (Too many projects going on right now.)

[jon elia 0]

i've shot many rounds of wolf fmj and hp into water, thru several milk jugs until it stopped, into phone books, into wet phonebooks......all of that produced the same result....the back end of the bullet was a little "squeezed" and no expansion...i can post pics of about half a dozen wolf hp's if someone wants to see what they do