Renegade118 2 Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 (edited) Hello, Sorry if this has already been asked but I have not been able to find a detailed answer. I rececently purchased a stock Saiga-12 and was wondering if I could legally use detachable magazines that hold more than 5 rounds? I know since my Saiga is not converted or "restored" it needs to stay in "sporting" configuration but I am confused on the magazine limit. Thank you for any insight. Edited February 24, 2012 by Renegade118 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
physicsnerd 139 Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 If you use an American made magazine of capacity greater than 5 you need to add one more US made part to be compliant. If you want to use a foreign made magazine of capacity greater than 5 then you need to add 4 US made parts to be compliant. Of course, not just any parts will do. [insert frustrated face] There is a sticky in this section on 922r. Short answer, if you want to shoot more than 5 rounds at a time you need to be compliant with 922r. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Renegade118 2 Posted February 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 (edited) Ok, thank you very much for the info. Looks like I will be sticking with the 5 rounders! Or I could replace 1 imported part for a USA made part and be able to use the 5+ round magazines correct? Edited February 24, 2012 by Renegade118 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
physicsnerd 139 Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 Ok, thank you very much for the info. Looks like I will be sticking with the 5 rounders! You're welcome. However, being compliant with American made magazines is really easy, just buy an American made muzzle device and puck. May run you $50 for the parts but they are still useful even after you convert (which you'll eventually do ). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Renegade118 2 Posted February 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 Ok, thank you very much for the info. Looks like I will be sticking with the 5 rounders! You're welcome. However, being compliant with American made magazines is really easy, just buy an American made muzzle device and puck. May run you $50 for the parts but they are still useful even after you convert (which you'll eventually do ). So I could buy an American made thread protector and I would be good to go for high capacity mags? I am weary to convert becuase I always have had issues with semiautomatic weapons and I have finally purchased a brand new one with no issues what so ever. Lol I guess I don't want to mess with a good thing!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
physicsnerd 139 Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 Ok, thank you very much for the info. Looks like I will be sticking with the 5 rounders! You're welcome. However, being compliant with American made magazines is really easy, just buy an American made muzzle device and puck. May run you $50 for the parts but they are still useful even after you convert (which you'll eventually do ). So I could buy an American made thread protector and I would be good to go for high capacity mags? I am weary to convert becuase I always have had issues with semiautomatic weapons and I have finally purchased a brand new one with no issues what so ever. Lol I guess I don't want to mess with a good thing!!! Actually I think you need 2 parts plus the magazines. I seem to recall a recent and very arbitrary change in 922r interpretation from BATFE such that the Saiga 12 has 15 instead of 14 parts like it was when I first got into them. Someone here may know more but you may want to look at getting a puck as well. If you want to be super sure you could get a US made factory configuration FCG from Dinzag. http://www.dinzagarms.com/misc_parts/fcg.html About halfway down the page. I understand about the converting thing. However, once you get confident with it, you'll start to get an itch to do it. Same thing happened to me though I did cheat and send it to Rifle Dynamics for conversion. But it can be a DIY project. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Renegade118 2 Posted February 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 Ok, thank you very much for the info. Looks like I will be sticking with the 5 rounders! You're welcome. However, being compliant with American made magazines is really easy, just buy an American made muzzle device and puck. May run you $50 for the parts but they are still useful even after you convert (which you'll eventually do ). So I could buy an American made thread protector and I would be good to go for high capacity mags? I am weary to convert becuase I always have had issues with semiautomatic weapons and I have finally purchased a brand new one with no issues what so ever. Lol I guess I don't want to mess with a good thing!!! Actually I think you need 2 parts plus the magazines. I seem to recall a recent and very arbitrary change in 922r interpretation from BATFE such that the Saiga 12 has 15 instead of 14 parts like it was when I first got into them. Someone here may know more but you may want to look at getting a puck as well. If you want to be super sure you could get a US made factory configuration FCG from Dinzag. http://www.dinzagarm..._parts/fcg.html About halfway down the page. I understand about the converting thing. However, once you get confident with it, you'll start to get an itch to do it. Same thing happened to me though I did cheat and send it to Rifle Dynamics for conversion. But it can be a DIY project. Ok thanks for the info. What would be the 1 other really easy to replace part. The thread protector is a no brainer obviously lol. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
physicsnerd 139 Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 The forearm. I almost forgot that counts as a part. Buy a US made one (from Chaos or Carolina Shooters Supply) and that would count as well. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Renegade118 2 Posted February 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 Sweet thanks, I probably will just do that instead of converting. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
haugpatr 972 Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 Sweet thanks, I probably will just do that instead of converting. Just convert it! You would have to try to screw it up, not difficult! There must be 1000 threads of "I can't do it", everyone of these people that eventually does convert, kind of feels stupid for their original statement. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 (edited) Don't think about adding parts think about subtracting them. "Adding" is the way to confusion. the 3 easiest parts to replace are the magazine. The next 3 in order of least effort and expense are 1) puck, 2), thread protector, 3)fore-arm. If you want to keep cost minimal, and do a conversion, either basic tapco plastic buttstock, or Kvar Blem, trigger group , PG, and puck are the cheapest route to be legal with all magazines. Alternatively, use imported AK stock, and US PG, and be sure to swap the muzzle device for US made, and a US piston as well. This option can be as cheap and IMO is much nicer Edited February 24, 2012 by GunFun Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Scorch95 1 Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 According to atf the saiga 12 has 15 parts as far as they are concerned and in a non-sporting config you can have no more than 10 foreign parts on your weapon. If you run a us made mag you will have 3 922r compliant parts in the body, follower, and floor plate. Also replace the puck and that gives you 4 parts. Replace the hand guard and you will have 5 922r parts. At this point in an unconverted saiga 12 you will be legal I believe to shoot mags of greater capacity than 5 rounds as long as they are us made. This is of course assuming that ATF does not count the thread protector as a muzzle device. If this has changed (then there would be 16 parts to be worried about) or you would rather error on the side of caution, not a bad thing, you can add your choice of us made muzzle device, brake or hider, and not have to worry about it. As stated above however, if you go ahead and convert with us fcg then it puts you ahead of the game with another 3 parts. Add a us made buttstock and pistol grip and with all of the above parts then you only have 6 foreign parts as far as 922r is concerned. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The_Caged_Bird 474 Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 I'd like to add that if you wish to use your 5 rounder again, you've got to either come up with three more American parts or reconfigure the weapon with it's original parts again... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Scorch95 1 Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 I'd like to add that if you wish to use your 5 rounder again, you've got to either come up with three more American parts or reconfigure the weapon with it's original parts again... Correct me please if I am wrong but just changing the puck and hanguard does not take the gun out of its sporting configuration and trigger 922r. This way he could run the factory 5 rounder and should be fine as long as nothing else is changed. Ie. no muzzle device. But running the US made >5 round mag is not considered sporting and does trigger 922r and at that point does have the correct amount of parts. However I guess the mere fact he owns them and that the gun will accept them might be enough to trigger 922r compliance. Thoughts? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
preparehandbook 326 Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 This thread may help me. I've got a new S12 coming. I bought a non us dragunov style stock. I'm fairly sure this does not count as a "pistol grip" It mounts in the "restored" position so I will move my trigger/guard and use a dinzag or tapco FCG. how many US made parts should I need to remain legit using greater than 5 round mags? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lbsrdi 1,078 Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 Shit is confusing and stupid, get you some SGM or AGP magazines and a cheap puck. http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-1055/MD-ARMS-STAINLESS-PUC/Detail?sfs=1eca8370 http://www.mississippiautoarms.com/saiga-12-gauge-10-round-magazine-sgm-tactical-p-439.html http://www.saiga-12.com/proddetail.asp?prod=AGP-S12-MAG 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ewoketeer 35 Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 Regarding whether to convert of not, If you can, handle and fire one that has been converted. This will give you an idea why so many have done so, already. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The_Caged_Bird 474 Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 I'd like to add that if you wish to use your 5 rounder again, you've got to either come up with three more American parts or reconfigure the weapon with it's original parts again... Correct me please if I am wrong but just changing the puck and hanguard does not take the gun out of its sporting configuration and trigger 922r. This way he could run the factory 5 rounder and should be fine as long as nothing else is changed. Ie. no muzzle device. But running the US made >5 round mag is not considered sporting and does trigger 922r and at that point does have the correct amount of parts. However I guess the mere fact he owns them and that the gun will accept them might be enough to trigger 922r compliance. Thoughts? The way I understand it, if you change any of the compliance parts, it's no longer sporting. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Scorch95 1 Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 (edited) Maybe someone else can chime in that has more knowledge on this. In the end to convert it with the parts listed above isn't very expensive and easily done while avoiding any questions on legality. Edited February 26, 2012 by Scorch95 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
physicsnerd 139 Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 I'd like to add that if you wish to use your 5 rounder again, you've got to either come up with three more American parts or reconfigure the weapon with it's original parts again... Correct me please if I am wrong but just changing the puck and hanguard does not take the gun out of its sporting configuration and trigger 922r. This way he could run the factory 5 rounder and should be fine as long as nothing else is changed. Ie. no muzzle device. But running the US made >5 round mag is not considered sporting and does trigger 922r and at that point does have the correct amount of parts. However I guess the mere fact he owns them and that the gun will accept them might be enough to trigger 922r compliance. Thoughts? The way I understand it, if you change any of the compliance parts, it's no longer sporting. No only if you assemble a configuration that is non-importable. For example if you fab up a monte carlo style buttstock to replace the factory one. That is OK with no other changes. So is using US made 5 round magazines. 922r comes into play when you want to configure the gun in a way that would not pass BATFEs bull$#!^ importability guidelines. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FunkedOut 91 Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 Correct me please if I am wrong but just changing the puck and hanguard does not take the gun out of its sporting configuration and trigger 922r. This way he could run the factory 5 rounder and should be fine as long as nothing else is changed. Ie. no muzzle device. But running the US made >5 round mag is not considered sporting and does trigger 922r and at that point does have the correct amount of parts. However I guess the mere fact he owns them and that the gun will accept them might be enough to trigger 922r compliance. Thoughts? I agree with that. I'm not a lawyer though. I'm not responsible for your actions and all that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The_Caged_Bird 474 Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 I err on the side of caution, plus, the muzzle device will pretty much screw the pooch every time. I feel it does need to be stated that to date there hasn't been one person charged with 922r infringement... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Scorch95 1 Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 Yeah if you are going to add a muzzle device such as a hider or brake it does trigger 922r. If he wanted to be safe just change to a us made barrel protector although I have yet to find one, admittedly I haven't looked either. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lbsrdi 1,078 Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 I like this option. http://www.mississippiautoarms.com/saiga-12-thread-protector-mississippi-auto-arms-p-440.html This doesn't add much length. http://www.mississippiautoarms.com/phoenix-crown-door-breach-for-saiga-12-gauge-p-471.html Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Scorch95 1 Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 (edited) This thread may help me. I've got a new S12 coming. I bought a non us dragunov style stock. I'm fairly sure this does not count as a "pistol grip" It mounts in the "restored" position so I will move my trigger/guard and use a dinzag or tapco FCG. how many US made parts should I need to remain legit using greater than 5 round mags? The s12 has 15 parts as it comes unconverted. So you will need 5 US made parts. If you are going to use a new fcg and move it forward, grab a tromix g2 and you have three already in the hammer, disconnector, and trigger. Now if you never plan to shoot your stock 5 rounder again then you can buy any US made mag and then be legal with no other mods but if this is not the case then you need to find 2 more parts. A puck would be simple and also a hand guard. Just make sure you are only counting parts that qualify under 922r and that these US parts are replacing foreign parts. In this case adding a muzzle device wont help towards compliance since it didn't have one in the first place. Edited February 26, 2012 by Scorch95 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
physicsnerd 139 Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 This thread may help me. I've got a new S12 coming. I bought a non us dragunov style stock. I'm fairly sure this does not count as a "pistol grip" It mounts in the "restored" position so I will move my trigger/guard and use a dinzag or tapco FCG. how many US made parts should I need to remain legit using greater than 5 round mags? The s12 has 15 parts as it comes unconverted. So you will need 5 US made parts. If you are going to use a new fcg and move it forward, grab a tromix g2 and you have three already in the hammer, disconnector, and trigger. Now if you never plan to shoot your stock 5 rounder again then you can buy any US made mag and then be legal with no other mods but if this is not the case then you need to find 2 more parts. A puck would be simple and also a hand guard. Just make sure you are only counting parts that qualify under 922r and that these US parts are replacing foreign parts. In this case adding a muzzle device wont help towards compliance since it didn't have one in the first place. Moving the FCG forward is super easy to be compliant. My Saiga 12 now has a US made buttstock, pistol grip, forearm, muzzle device, trigger, hammer and disconnector. I use the factory puck but that would be another easy to replace item. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The_Caged_Bird 474 Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 The pistol grip doesn't count towards your compliance count, but if it's foreign, it will count against you... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Boomstick12 11 Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 Ok, thank you very much for the info. Looks like I will be sticking with the 5 rounders! You're welcome. However, being compliant with American made magazines is really easy, just buy an American made muzzle device and puck. May run you $50 for the parts but they are still useful even after you convert (which you'll eventually do ). So I could buy an American made thread protector and I would be good to go for high capacity mags? I am weary to convert becuase I always have had issues with semiautomatic weapons and I have finally purchased a brand new one with no issues what so ever. Lol I guess I don't want to mess with a good thing!!! I understand the hesitation, but converting it is really a great thing. As long as you know, for sure, you'll gun work now with ALL ammo, then the conversion should be no problem. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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