Make An Argument for .308 or x39

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

There is a crap load of under .35 a round on gun-deals listing both mil-surp (which I have had no problems with at all) and Russian steel.

 

As I pointed out previously there are better reasons for stocking a round than price per round. This is why all our pistols are 40sw , standardizing has paid off for us. Same thing.

 

If a person can only afford x39 then God bless em and good luck it is a good round.

They will just likely find themselves stocking a lot more calibers than I decided was wise or efficient.

We now only have 2 calibers of center fire, one cal of shottie, and one type of rim fire to deal with which was and remains in my case, wise.

[Shandlanos 1,470]

There is a crap load of under .35 a round on gun-deals listing both mil-surp (which I have had no problems with at all) and Russian steel.

 

As I pointed out previously there are better reasons for stocking a round than price per round. This is why all our pistols are 40sw , standardizing has paid off for us. Same thing.

 

If a person can only afford x39 then God bless em and good luck it is a good round.

They will just likely find themselves stocking a lot more calibers than I decided was wise or efficient.

We now only have 2 calibers of center fire, one cal of shottie, and one type of rim fire to deal with which was and remains in my case, wise.

 

I'm a collector - I like to have lots of different rifles in different calibers. The fewest rounds I have for any rifle is 20. And that's my centerfire converted Swiss Vetterli M1878/81.

 

My rifles aren't intended to be carried into battle. Many of them would be wholly unfit for the purpose. For most rifles I keep at least 300 rounds, including my CZ-52. I also keep ammunition in calibers I presently don't have firearms for (.308, .30-06, .45 ACP), because I do intend to purchase firearms in those calibers again in the future, and meanwhile, sometimes I get to play with other people's toys.

 

I like 7.62x39 because it is relatively inexpensive, does the job in most scenarios, and just about everyone with an FFL/SOT has a select-fire rifle in that caliber - usually they're nice and will let me dump a few magazines.

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

Yeah I can see it from a collectors point of view.

[VR762Shooter 838]

I know .308 has the advantage in all aspects of ballistics in this matchup, but I'd personally go with the x39. Any well placed shot, in self defense or against an animal (possible for SD against a hog, too), should be fine for both. I dont see a defense situation at more than 100yards, unless you have issues with roaming snipers in the area. So, to me, it doesnt sound like the extra ballistics and energy are a huge requirement. Maybe if you are going to be in the more heavily wooded parts the .308 would be the only choice but if switching back and forth between the two, hit up the x39. You could always go both, as has been stated. If a .308 is affordable an x39 on top of it isnt out of the question. It'd be cheaper than an AR platform either way.

[bangbox 5]

I'd go with .308, yes it cost more but more accurate at distance so you'll use less ammo anyhow.

and a PLR16 for self defence.

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

http://www.bulletproofme.com/Body_Armor_Accessories_Rifle_Protection.shtml

 

Eventually everything becomes obsolete. All you can do is postpone that day.

Edited March 9, 2012 by Rhodes1968

[ironhead7544 35]

So what you want is an all around AK.

 

I think that would be a 16 inch .308. Converted to pistol grip. Add a good QD side mount and a good 3x scope. A Red Star trigger would help. A decent folding stock would be nice but not a necessity. Carry 3 of the 8 round mags and that should handle any situation you might encounter in the brush. Remember, when you shoot only hits count. If recoil is a consideration then add a pad. Also, I know it is frowned upon, but when I added a recoil buffer it cut the recoil down quite a bit. The recoil from the 16 inch was not bad really. Probably the most comfortable .308 I have shot.

 

For the .308 you really need to reload if you want to shoot it a lot.

 

JMHO. BTW, the .308 is very accurate, better than you would think for a semi-auto.

[Super Dave 0]

.308. If you want less recoil/muzzle jump, get a quality brake like a PWS FSC30. Big recoil tamer. http://www.nokick.com/PWS_FSC30_p/pws%20ar-fsc30.htm

 

I have a 308, and a 7.62x39. I like them both, but If I could only have one, it would be the 308 hands down.

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

Imo you should get both if at all possible. That said, I do think the x39 is more versatile in most TEOTWAWKI scenarios. So if it's one or the other, get the x39.

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

Look at it like this.

If you were going to arm yourself with one and your opponent with the other... which one would you have?

 

How many times have we done this so far?

[XD45 7,124]

I know alot of guys that use 39 to hunt, and I would use it too in a pinch, but I'd opt for the 150gr soft point ammo over the 125gr "hollow point".

 

But... I would choose 308 every time for hunting deer or hogs.

 

The reason is simple. The 39 will kill reliably with a good side shot where you don't have to penetrate far to reach the vitals. But for off angles, the 308 with hunting bullets will reach deep enough to get the vitals and anchor the animal fast. Less tracking of wounded animals. Less lost wounded animals.

 

If I was carrying a 39 there are shots I'd pass on because I wasn't certain of a clean kill.

 

The argument of faster follow-up shots becomes less important if you have a more effective first shot.

 

Yes it costs more to shoot. There's no free lunch.

 

Some think the 39 is a better teotwawki rifle. But a 308 will do a great job on the hunt and a pretty damn good job of teotwawki. Alot of guys would rather carry the heavier rifle and heavier ammo for the increased effectiveness.

Edited April 29, 2012 by XD45

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

Good points XD.

Not to mention you can make up some very effective ammo for the 308 to do most any task you need done from AP to dangerous game to target shooting.

Reloading brings a whole nuther aspect to the matter.

[mpmarty 2]

Why settle for a wimp like the x39 when the 7.62 Nato is available. I've got a Saiga chambered in 7.62 Nato and a bunch of 20 round mags. Turns cover into concealment. No comparison to range and power plus all the surplus ammo floating around.

[G O B 3,516]

I have both. Built an AK and bought a S-.308. The AK gets more use, mainly due to ammo and mag prices. You can't beat comclok mags ans X-39 ammo prices. The S-.308 comes out for longer ranges, but not so often.

[Unknown Poster 5]

For hunting in bear country in heavy brush I use a 444 marlin with 270gr & 300gr SP bullets. Because any little twig or branch can send the 30cal bullet off its intended path. But i like the 7,62x39 with the 125gr SP bullets for smaller game and the 154gr SP bullets for deer. I prefer the sks over the saiga in 7,62x39 mainly because of its price and its a tad more accurate over the saiga. With the 308win round you have more range and its probably more accurate than the '39 too in the saiga. I bumped up from my trusty '06 back in '94 to a 338win mag and never looked back yet. But my new love has been my saiga in 308 with its 16'' barrel.

 

My question is with the accuracy of the 308 saiga with its 16'' barrel. How far can it shoot with no scope, accurate shots/groups, whats its limits in distance?

 

Does the saiga with 22'' barrel in 308 shoot farther than the 16'' barrel accuracy wise? Whats its limits in distance? (no scope)

Edited May 11, 2012 by Unknown Poster

[esminbritt 16]

.308. It's quality, not quantity. When hunting, 1 or 2 shots should do it. If I'm in a firefight (rapid fire) I'm gonna retreat and bring back more brethren. 3 well positioned, skilled shooters can take out 7 or more hostiles spraying erratic fire at a tree line. And .308 is not that much more than x39 if you shoot rounds made in America. Which brings me to a non-related point: How many of y'all shoot russian ammo? I heard the steel fouls up barrels and I also heard that they are more prone to malfunction, sometimes backfiring or permanently damaging the receiver.

[G O B 3,516]

Steel is the natural diet for AK's.

SOME AR's get indigestion from steel.

[esminbritt 16]

For hunting in bear country in heavy brush I use a 444 marlin with 270gr & 300gr SP bullets. Because any little twig or branch can send the 30cal bullet off its intended path. But i like the 7,62x39 with the 125gr SP bullets for smaller game and the 154gr SP bullets for deer. I prefer the sks over the saiga in 7,62x39 mainly because of its price and its a tad more accurate over the saiga. With the 308win round you have more range and its probably more accurate than the '39 too in the saiga. I bumped up from my trusty '06 back in '94 to a 338win mag and never looked back yet. But my new love has been my saiga in 308 with its 16'' barrel.

 

My question is with the accuracy of the 308 saiga with its 16'' barrel. How far can it shoot with no scope, accurate shots/groups, whats its limits in distance?

 

Does the saiga with 22'' barrel in 308 shoot farther than the 16'' barrel accuracy wise? Whats its limits in distance? (no scope)

I had my S308 22" barrel out the other day. I was hitting 6" groupings outdoors at 100 yds with iron sights. I'm not that great a shot yet & this rifle is still new to me. But I was surprised at how well it did as a novice shooter and with no scope.

Edited July 1, 2012 by EZTundra77

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

...How many of y'all shoot russian ammo? I heard the steel fouls up barrels and I also heard that they are more prone to malfunction, sometimes backfiring or permanently damaging the receiver.

 

I shoot Russian ammo almost exclusively, in both 7.62x39 and x51. I've had zero problems, and doubt that I ever will. Kalashnikov pattern rifles, (in all calibers), chew through steel-cased ammo greedily, unlike AR rifles.

Edited June 30, 2012 by post-apocalyptic

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

...If you were going to arm yourself with one and your opponent with the other... which one would you have?...

 

Imo, it depends entirely on the range of likely shots; which is situation-dependent. I love my S-308, (~22" barrel, converted, modded K-Var handguards, Bonesteel Galil RS folder with an Enidine buffer tube and Magpul CTR stock), but for shots up to ~300 yrds against specifically 2-legged targets, I'd pick the x39 over the x51 every time.

 

ymmv.

[YARP 300]

Call me crazy but I'd opt for an AK in x39 and a bolt gun in .308 if I was in your situation.

[thebuns1 4,323]

i dont know much about these, but i want one after seeing red's.

[ShadowFire 220]

For hunting in that environment I would go with .308 with an 18 inch barrel. This will allow you to move through brush better if you prefer to stalk your prey (remember your blaze orange vest.) and with the right optics you can extend your range past 100 yards.

 

Know where your pipeline/s are/is and plan and pick your shots. Semi-autos like Saigas will absorb a lot of felt recoil so follow up shots should not be an issue should you need to take one. She's not a bolt with a light barrel, recoil will be quite managable.

 

Now if you are totally into stalking your prey and like the challenge and honing your skills, you can go for the x39. I like both so I might swap out depending on how I felt that season compared to the season before.

[Gulo 24]

For hunting in bear country in heavy brush I use a 444 marlin with 270gr & 300gr SP bullets. Because any little twig or branch can send the 30cal bullet off its intended path. But i like the 7,62x39 with the 125gr SP bullets for smaller game and the 154gr SP bullets for deer. I prefer the sks over the saiga in 7,62x39 mainly because of its price and its a tad more accurate over the saiga. With the 308win round you have more range and its probably more accurate than the '39 too in the saiga. I bumped up from my trusty '06 back in '94 to a 338win mag and never looked back yet. But my new love has been my saiga in 308 with its 16'' barrel.

 

My question is with the accuracy of the 308 saiga with its 16'' barrel. How far can it shoot with no scope, accurate shots/groups, whats its limits in distance?

 

Does the saiga with 22'' barrel in 308 shoot farther than the 16'' barrel accuracy wise? Whats its limits in distance? (no scope)

 

Exactly my thought, the SKS is a superb choice for 7.62x39 work on hogs, deer, and SHTF due to the extra MOA squeezed out of the gun compared to most AKs. The only problem with the SKS is the lack of Quality aftermarket accessories which is exactly why i've kept my SKS in it's unadulterated, stock condition and would consider the AK first for the role.

Now.. if only the SKS came in an American from the ground up, CNC-made .308 that accepts CSSPECS or M14 mags without the whole duckbill fiasco while still allowing stripper clip feeding in a pinch, a reinforced receiver cover with the rear sight on top (think galil) and a solid aluminium/steel side folding adjustible stock that accepted AK/AR furniture.. Then it could play with it's Saiga/Vepr/AK/PSL/PSO cousins and not be seen as such an obsolete, inferior, chinese/eastern european POS (my chinese Pre-ban PLA-issue Norinco SKS is the highest quality chinese product I've ever held) even though it's pretty much the same quality if not above par for most AKs but I digress.

 

Steel is the natural diet for AK's.

SOME AR's get indigestion from steel.

 

I couldn't agree more, in fact, my experience has been that brass sometimes gets extremely roughed up by the gun and splits during extraction, like it's too weak for the charge or the extraction is just too violent. Steel, feeds perfectly.

[esminbritt 16]

Slightly off subject, does anyone know the difference n the powder charge between the 223. and 7.62x39? The case is longer on the .223 (5.56) but isn't it bigger around on the 7.62x39? Not to go off on a tangeant, just curious)

[Nailbomb 10,221]

Poll Closed.

[esminbritt 16]

The .308 is a really versatile round. The Only reason I would sacrifice ballistics and step down to x39 would be if I was seriously planning to use it in an all-out combat firefight. Then, the really big mags would be advantageous. But even then, in a SHTF scenario, a team of well concealed snipers are highly effective. Assume the other guys have the same. And if they do, the first guy they shoot is gonna be the one who charges out emptying hi-cap mags and calling attention to himself. He's dangerous and he's an easy target.

But back to the real world... The difference in cost isn't prohibitive to most. Most people in the shooting community know good & well that they're gonna drop good coin every year, on one thing or another. I get that x39 is good to medium range for smaller targets, but what about when you are planning to nail a coyote you've seen and out of the corner of your eye you see a nice boar at 700m. I doubt you'd be carrying 2 rifles. I choose the one that gives me more options. Any day. Even if it costs a couple hundred more.

[Zambidis 90]

but what about when you are planning to nail a coyote you've seen and out of the corner of your eye you see a nice boar at 700m.

 

Taking that shot with an S308 would be unethical for the vast majority of people. Even with a much more percise weapon a shot on game at that distance is beyond what most people have the ability to reliable make. So whether you have the 308 or the x39 you better start stalking for a closer shot.

 

I have both the 308 and and x39. Shooting various things, and shooting each over a chronograph has left me convinced that even out of the 16" barrel the 308 still is packing significantly more punch than the x39. I think the 308 is the more versatile gun. That said the x39 gets shot more, a lot more. My S308 is having something of an identity crisis as I cannot really decide what role it should fill and how to set it up. I even contemplate selling it to put the money towards a Scar 17S, which is a truly brilliant all round/general purpose type rifle.