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Help with ETAC, Esteban, GoGuns....


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I've never heard one good thing about them, I'd lawyer up and get my shit back.

Sadly, It's quite simple to crash your business into the ground using the "pay up front" method.   The guns are modified in batches, generally- and the actual "in-shop" working time is 1-2 weeks. So

I could dream up a lot of shit.   I am also disappointed in some forum business members like Mississippi Auto Arms who continue to sell his twister pucks...

Well, for starters... I'm not a crack head.  But more importantly, I will not allow the volume of incoming work reach a point I cannot maintain.  If the volume gets too high, I will have to raise prices to keep it at a level I can manage.  Too many small businesses fall into this trap and many never recover.  Additionally, I am pretty honest with clients about my personal limitations, both in terms of skill and equipment.  Simply put, I do not take on projects that are beyond my abilities.   I hope this personal philosophy will help me navigate the small business waters while avoiding the rocks that have sank so many others.

 

Also, I have been around long enough to remember when Esteban had a solid reputation on this forum and have watched every step of his fall from grace.  I have learned a lot from that experience alone.

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Also, I have been around long enough to remember when Esteban had a solid reputation on this forum and have watched every step of his fall from grace.  I have learned a lot from that experience alone.

Yeah, remember those first few conversions of his that looked so gorgeous? This was back before there were very many professional conversion services that offered all the bells and whistles. Hell, you had one of his early ones yourself! I remember you had the full-length rail over the gas tube and the weld looked absolutely perfect! Were there ever any problems with your gas plug threads that you recall? Geez, I actually remember recommending him to a few people here back then just based on the quality of your gun.

 

 I'm surprised at the appearance of the welds in the above photos, I was always under the impression that it was just his business practices that had gone downhill. Apparently, the quality of work has suffered as well. Sad. I wonder what his deal is?

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I'm also starting to wonder what happened Esteban.  If he sent back your parts, that indicates some level of honesty.  If he previously did perfect welds and your weld is all jacked up, that would mean something bad happened to him mentally, or that someone else did the weld.  But why would someone else be trying to do the work?  Was he incarcerated?  Hospitalized?  In rehab?

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Esteban hasn't worked on guns in years, from what I've been told by a former employee of his.  He's been getting others to do his work for him, and it seems to be showing with the welds that have been coming on his guns.  At least the guy who did my gun for him did a decent job.  However, it was way overpriced for what I got.  I converted a second Saiga 12 myself, and had the bolt looking exactly the same in about 10 minutes time, and it feels just as good.

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Esteban hasn't worked on guns in years, from what I've been told by a former employee of his.  He's been getting others to do his work for him, and it seems to be showing with the welds that have been coming on his guns.  At least the guy who did my gun for him did a decent job.  However, it was way overpriced for what I got.  I converted a second Saiga 12 myself, and had the bolt looking exactly the same in about 10 minutes time, and it feels just as good.

 

Don't give him too much credit.

Whole strings of emails got published. He was telling people old lines like "it's in the paint shop" or claims of that nature, only to give the gun back as a box of parts  months later after legal action was threatened. It was pretty clear he just took them apart and stashed the parts and straight up lied about getting work done after that.

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I'm also starting to wonder what happened Esteban.  If he sent back your parts, that indicates some level of honesty.  If he previously did perfect welds and your weld is all jacked up, that would mean something bad happened to him mentally, or that someone else did the weld.  But why would someone else be trying to do the work?  Was he incarcerated?  Hospitalized?  In rehab?

He is building parts and AR15 receeivers. He is not honest at all. If he did not send back my registered lowers I would have pressed charges of theft against him. He lied to me for over three years about my guns. Every email and phone call was a lie. I was finaly told by a guy who worked for him that Esteban just did not feel like working on Saigas anymore. So he stole people's money as he had no intention of completing any more guns.

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Sadly, It's quite simple to crash your business into the ground using the "pay up front" method.

 

The guns are modified in batches, generally- and the actual "in-shop" working time is 1-2 weeks. So you get paid in full when you receive the guns.  Bank account looks fat and all this work piles up on the bench- life looks rosy!

 

This is where they go wrong.  He has already received every penny he will get for this gun. As you all know, money gets spent.  Soon there's no cash left to finish the guns that are in the working group, so he must take more orders (and guns, and money) to continue to operate. In no time, the place is full of disassembled Saigas (because breaking them down doesn't cost anything) but no parts to finish them with.

 

It's the manufacturing equivalent of a pyramid scheme, and the majority of payees will be left holding the bag.  That being said, Esteban probably never intended to defraud anybody...back when he started with Saigas, maybe 8+ years ago he was a customer of ours. He bought the trigger guards and back plates etc and seemed to have a decent business in race pistols.  My guess is that he used to take the racegun money up front, but never got in trouble with it because the volume was low.  He did nice work then and got in the first big wave of Saiga popularity...I remember seeing his posts about the new shops, in-house CNC machines and whatnot, and wondered how he was going to make that work.

 

I wonder if there are any pro Saiga remanufacturers that didn't base their business on a reverse-engineered Tromix.

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Probably not.  I was given one of the first "Open Division", Saigas Tony built for Dean Makos.  Dean tried to get me to reverse engineer it, but I had no interest at the time as I was too busy building pistols.

 

When I got interested in the Saigas, I did take a look at Dean's Saiga and gave Tony a few calls for clarification on some aspects of the gun.  Very professional and all was good!!

 

It took a while to see the advantage of the Saiga, I didn't like Deans, because it kicked like a mule, but I knew I could make it work to my advantage and took it from there.

 

Jack

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I remember that gun (and Dean) very well, Jack.

 

Sure, there are a few guys like you that really make a unique offering but as you know, you're in the minority. I guess Tom Cole made a Saiga SBS before we did, but we never heard of him at the time and he was using a full-length gas tube anyway; not something we would have emulated.

 

Actually the original stimulus for the project came from a friend of ours in Alaska. He had acquired one and sent it to Tony because he thought it had potential.  He was right.

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Guess I am now one of those guys reverse engineering Tromix since I need to rebuild my guns on my own.  Going with a 2.25" shortened gas system with an ICC custom made 10" barrel.  Just ordered a new R&R Targets bolt carrier which will be sent to Pauly for polishing at some point (along with the bolt and trigger).  I am currently stripping the paint from the receiver and other parts.  I am also filing and sanding all sharp edges since I am not in a rush and am a perfectionist.  Once I have all the parts I will send the gun out to a reputable gun smith to install the barrel, gas block, weld on the sights, and make any necessary adjustments.  From there everything is going to be refinished in Cerakote and reassembled.  Here is a list of parts I am adding:

 

ICC custom made barrel

R&R Targets custom made bolt carrier and op rod

M4 Socom folding stock (would prefer a Tromix aluminum stock but they are sold out everywhere)

Tromix brake

Tapco trigger group

and a bunch of parts from CSS like gas puck, weld-on sights, springs, etc.

Not sure about the handguard.  Might just modify the original as no one seems to make one for the mid-length gas system.

 

Hopefully it turns out well.  Will post photos once it becomes a gun again.

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I remember that gun (and Dean) very well, Jack.

 

Sure, there are a few guys like you that really make a unique offering but as you know, you're in the minority. I guess Tom Cole made a Saiga SBS before we did, but we never heard of him at the time and he was using a full-length gas tube anyway; not something we would have emulated.

 

Actually the original stimulus for the project came from a friend of ours in Alaska. He had acquired one and sent it to Tony because he thought it had potential.  He was right.

Yeah, but I had talked to Tom a couple of years ago about building SBSs and he said he had also learned quite a bit from Tony, after Tony had started building. 

 

It is always good when you get a couple sets of new eyes on some of these new projects to advance the platform.  It is easy to get caught up in a routine and tunnel vision.

 

Jack

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