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Quad Rail Issues


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Bought a nice looking quad rail for my Saiga 12. Installed it and it sure looked great. When I took it out, the gun wouldn't cycle no matter where I set the gas adjust (has a reliability kit). Took it back off and it cycled perfectly. I also notice that the bolt move easier than with the rail removed. Must have been tweeking things out just enough to screw things up. The seller (Ebay) took it back and refunded me. Got some other furniture on order from CSS. Just wanted to vent a little.

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aye, gotta be careful with those things, not a big fan of anything that has to " wrap " the gun and clamp it.... too easy to bind things, touque em out of spec and whatnot.... This has been a pretty long standing issue with the S12s...

 

 

If the new product gives you trouble too, look into something that connects like the factory handguard, Fuglysticks and such... easy to tri or quad rail them.

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Well, let's delve deeper into this quad-rail thing.

 

Is it a nod to utility and practical use? Or is it a fashion statement?

 

If it is a fashion statement, then I wouldn't worry overmuch about cycling and so forth...just use is as a single shot shotgun, and you're good to go.

 

If it has a definite utilitarian purpose, then you might consider doing as I did when faced with exactly the identical issue.

 

I cut the UTG quad rail system into several parts and pieces, as needed, and used them, over the course of a couple of months, to outfit any number of other guns with various sized, but totally adequate rails. The 99 dollar price of the quad rail was returned to me severalfold (scripture says, 'Cast your bread upon the water, and after many days, it will return to you'...Works with rails too) in that manner, and even after cannibalizing the thing, I still managed to get everything I wanted, rail-wise, mounted on the Saiga and working to beat sixty.

 

It's a mighty curious thing, and surpassingly marvelous in my eyes, but it appears that more stuff placed upon the gun, more heavier things versus lighter things added onto it...will actually have a substantial impact upon the final weight of the gun, and the handling parameters thereof and thereafter.

 

Of course, I'm pulling your leg. But one of the most enjoyable elements to be found in owning a Saiga (or any other tactical gun you might care to name), is in imagining what use might be found for it, and what it is that will enable the gun to best meet that use. I used to dress them up like red-neck preachers on the way to a shotgun wedding...Now, I leave any of my home defense weapons just exactly built up to match and meet the need that I feel it is most likely to be called upon to fulfil. That is satisfying enough for me.

 

And nought a quad rail amongst the whole bunch of them.

Edited by Ezra
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I got a UTG Pro made in the USA and it works fine. Did you tighten it done too tight? I got mine snug and tight but not so tight that it was binding. The rail sections do not touch and there is a lil gap between them.

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I just bought my Saiga a couple weeks ago. It worked perfectly fine stock out of the box. Then I ordered all the goodies, including the quad rail (mine says it's a UAG, but it's exactly the same thing as the UTG everyone is having problems with). I had the exact same issue. I wish I had read this forum before I bought it, I would have bought a different one.

 

I don't think it's an issue with it clamping down on the gun though, because everything still moves freely. The puck will slide back and forth if you tip the gun forward and back. So it doesn't seem to be binding. It just didn't seem to make any sense to me. I've also determined that I have a 3 hole gas cylinder and it's not a vodka special. So it SHOULD be working. And it DID work before I put the rails on.

 

I did a bunch of searches on the web and came across a thread (I don't think it was on this forum, and if it was, I can't find it again) that someone suggested the issue was actually due to resonation of the top rail. That actually makes more sense. Harmonic resonance can cause all kinds of weird problems in mechanical stuff.

 

I've put the stock fore grip back on the gun, but haven't had a chance to go back out with it because it's been pouring rain. I'm going to take it out tomorrow regardless. If it is back to normal functioning after removing the quad rail entirely, I'm going to try reinstalling the rails minus the top rail. If THAT works, I'll at least be able to use it as a tri-rail. If it does turn out that top rail vibration is the problem, I might also try cutting the top rail down so it doesn't extend out past the frame of the rail system. That might cut down on any vibration from it.

 

I'll report back here with what I find out.

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Yeah I was the one that determined that it had something to do with harmonics/flex of the weapon , I posted it last year some time I think. Took a long time and worry to come up with it, however strange of a notion as it was.

 

Did it work with the entire thing installed minues the top rail? (in other words with the top part of the frame installed, but not the rail itself)

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I have installed the UTG quad rails on well over a hundred Saiga 12's, I test fire every gun I build and have never had any issue relating to these quad rails. I can't imagine how much you would have to tighten down the screws on this rail to affect the function of the gun, you would strip the threads before you got to that point

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I agree. I didn't think it had anything to do with clamping the gun too tightly. However, I can say it definitely had an effect on my gun. After removing it, I was still having FTE problems with cheapo walmart ammo (I think one out of 20 rounds actually ejected properly). But then I ran 20 rounds of buckshot through it that mostly cycled properly (2 or 3 stovepipes) and 10 slugs that also mostly cycled right (2 stove pipes). Then I put another 5 rounds of the cheapo ammo through it and 3 out of the 5 ejected properly.

 

The FTEs I was getting today might be due to the fact that I didn't clean the gas cylinder (or any of the gun) after the last outing. It also might be because it's a brand new gun and isn't broken in yet. I'm going to keep running it the way it is for a while and see how it goes before I make any modifications.

 

But the quad rail definitely made a difference. When I had that on there it was 100% FTE, most of the time not even coming out of the chamber at all. I still think it's really weird, but it certinaly seems to be causing problems somehow. Once I've got it running flawlessly without it, I'm going to try reinstalling it and see what happens.

 

I have installed the UTG quad rails on well over a hundred Saiga 12's, I test fire every gun I build and have never had any issue relating to these quad rails. I can't imagine how much you would have to tighten down the screws on this rail to affect the function of the gun, you would strip the threads before you got to that point

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Ok, another update on this. I gave the gun a good cleaning and took it back out to the range. It's definitely performing MUCH better without the rail. However, while cleaning it I discovered another issue. The spring that slides in to the carrier seems to be catching or jamming. So the rear one compresses completely but the front one is not. That's preventing the carrier and bolt from going all the way back on every shot. I think this might actually be my primary issue. I saw on another thread that someone had this issue and polished the opening on the carrier to that spring goes to stop it from catching. I'm going to try this next and see if that solves the problem.

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