The contest is now over.

[Jasper 19]

Pearls before swine.

Edited March 9, 2012 by Jasper

[haugpatr 972]

I'll still take my Saiga-12, I thought that those only shoot 2.75 inch shells and not 3 inch shells, so if that is the case it won't really eat anything, and it will never have a drum mag.

[pikapp168 17]

I think both guns are great. I prefer the feel of the 1919 myself. As far as drums go, never say never. People are smart. If someone really wants it done they'll figure it out.

 

Btw, the gun looks beautiful. I don't care for the break, but it looks great! Congrats!

[Jasper 19]

I think both guns are great. I prefer the feel of the 1919 myself. As far as drums go, never say never. People are smart. If someone really wants it done they'll figure it out.

 

Btw, the gun looks beautiful. I don't care for the break, but it looks great! Congrats!

 

Shoot more and you will realize form follows function. I see no need for the door breaching mall ninja muzzle devices but they still sell like crazy. Its for the guys who are pretty sure they will have to use the sharks teeth on the muzzle device to finish off that last zombie after the drum is empty.

 

I'll still take my Saiga-12, I thought that those only shoot 2.75 inch shells and not 3 inch shells, so if that is the case it won't really eat anything, and it will never have a drum mag.

 

So you say it wont shoot 3" and that means what? Tell ya what, do a little research and learn something about them before you show us again just how little you do know and yet spout an opinion.

I bet I can put 23 aimed rounds downrange faster than you can with your drum.

Edited March 8, 2012 by Jasper

[physicsnerd 139]

That looks awesome. If you don't mind sharing, how much does one of these run compared to, say a R&R race Saiga?

 

Congrats again on the new gun!

[RED333 1,025]

I think both guns are great. I prefer the feel of the 1919 myself. As far as drums go, never say never. People are smart. If someone really wants it done they'll figure it out.

 

Btw, the gun looks beautiful. I don't care for the break, but it looks great! Congrats!

 

Shoot more and you will realize form follows function. I see no need for the door breaching mall ninja muzzle devices but they still sell like crazy. Its for the guys who are pretty sure they will have to use the sharks teeth on the muzzle device to finish off that last zombie after the drum is empty.

 

I'll still take my Saiga-12, I thought that those only shoot 2.75 inch shells and not 3 inch shells, so if that is the case it won't really eat anything, and it will never have a drum mag.

 

So you say it wont shoot 3" and that means what? Tell ya what, do a little research and learn something about them before you show us again just how little you do know and yet spout an opinion.

I bet I can put 23 aimed rounds downrange faster than you can with your drum.

I will take your bet, I am in TN and I will use a stick mag or drum.

Now I aint trying to start something, I like the way your 1919 looks.

I just pefer the S12 over the 1919.

[SaigaKen 338]

I think both guns are great. I prefer the feel of the 1919 myself. As far as drums go, never say never. People are smart. If someone really wants it done they'll figure it out.

 

Btw, the gun looks beautiful. I don't care for the break, but it looks great! Congrats!

 

Shoot more and you will realize form follows function. I see no need for the door breaching mall ninja muzzle devices but they still sell like crazy. Its for the guys who are pretty sure they will have to use the sharks teeth on the muzzle device to finish off that last zombie after the drum is empty.

 

I'll still take my Saiga-12, I thought that those only shoot 2.75 inch shells and not 3 inch shells, so if that is the case it won't really eat anything, and it will never have a drum mag.

 

So you say it wont shoot 3" and that means what? Tell ya what, do a little research and learn something about them before you show us again just how little you do know and yet spout an opinion.

I bet I can put 23 aimed rounds downrange faster than you can with your drum.

 

Pictures of the S12? How much are you selling for?

[Jasper 19]

That looks awesome. If you don't mind sharing, how much does one of these run compared to, say a R&R race Saiga?

 

Congrats again on the new gun!

 

I just talked to Jim a bit ago and he mentioned they will go for about $1900 ready to go with one mag.He is continously upgrading his platform as he goes. He is waiting on parts and there is a backlog. If you want one Id bet you will wait a 6-8 weeks so call and order one now.

 

I think both guns are great. I prefer the feel of the 1919 myself. As far as drums go, never say never. People are smart. If someone really wants it done they'll figure it out.

 

Btw, the gun looks beautiful. I don't care for the break, but it looks great! Congrats!

 

Shoot more and you will realize form follows function. I see no need for the door breaching mall ninja muzzle devices but they still sell like crazy. Its for the guys who are pretty sure they will have to use the sharks teeth on the muzzle device to finish off that last zombie after the drum is empty.

 

I'll still take my Saiga-12, I thought that those only shoot 2.75 inch shells and not 3 inch shells, so if that is the case it won't really eat anything, and it will never have a drum mag.

 

So you say it wont shoot 3" and that means what? Tell ya what, do a little research and learn something about them before you show us again just how little you do know and yet spout an opinion.

I bet I can put 23 aimed rounds downrange faster than you can with your drum.

I will take your bet, I am in TN and I will use a stick mag or drum.

Now I aint trying to start something, I like the way your 1919 looks.

I just pefer the S12 over the 1919.

Maybe we can do it at the RockCastle proam!

 

I honestly dont know for sure if the S12 or Akdal actually cycles quicker. I know the R&Rs are supposed to be really fast and I have only seen one of those with the shortened gas system. The advantage the akdal has is the ease of mag changes even with a magwell on a S12.

Edited March 8, 2012 by Jasper

[haugpatr 972]

I think both guns are great. I prefer the feel of the 1919 myself. As far as drums go, never say never. People are smart. If someone really wants it done they'll figure it out.

 

Btw, the gun looks beautiful. I don't care for the break, but it looks great! Congrats!

 

Shoot more and you will realize form follows function. I see no need for the door breaching mall ninja muzzle devices but they still sell like crazy. Its for the guys who are pretty sure they will have to use the sharks teeth on the muzzle device to finish off that last zombie after the drum is empty.

 

I'll still take my Saiga-12, I thought that those only shoot 2.75 inch shells and not 3 inch shells, so if that is the case it won't really eat anything, and it will never have a drum mag.

 

So you say it wont shoot 3" and that means what? Tell ya what, do a little research and learn something about them before you show us again just how little you do know and yet spout an opinion.

I bet I can put 23 aimed rounds downrange faster than you can with your drum.

 

If it doesn't shoot 3" shells then it won't eat anything, and you were the one who stated an opinion in the title of the thread, why would you not expect someone to reply with theirs.

 

I didn't insult you in my response and take some offense that you insulted me. I only stated facts in my response.

 

Opinions are like assholes, eveyone's got one. But people like you are just assholes. Sorry for stating facts.

 

It's also good to know you are the all knowing shotgun expert, now I don't have to read posts from Tom Cole or Tony Rumore.

[Ezra 8]

Yes, it will shoot everything, from either magazine...and actually, while it's a subjective view, the gun seems more at home with 3 inch magnums than 2.75 inch anything.

 

And the title of this thread, "THE CONTEST IS NOW OVER" is a dead on accurate description of my feelings within shooting the first 50 rounds. My word...I was already feeling like, "This is a whole other story", within emptying the very first magazine.

 

I have a pair of S12's through which I've delivered a lavish of ammo downrange (well, actually, across my back yard), have done my own conversion, and know at least a little something about guns. I do my own 'smithing on every gun I own, and that's a considerable amount of experience and well, lots of guns.

 

And this Adkal, still in OEM trim, puts every shotgun I've ever used, including my Saigas, in the shade by a considerable margin.

 

Load on a full mag? Oh yeah. Slap the left side and bolt slides forward rapidly, no 'friction stops' along the way. Good safety, reached and activated intuitively. Sights that leave nothing to be desired for me. Mag changes? Fast, and I do mean fast. Last one drops out, bolt stays open, slide a new one in pronto, slap bolt release with left hand, shoot...what's not to like?

 

I have only one serious issue with the Akdal...and that's with how, the moment it hit the market, it made my Saigas worth a lot less money, certainly a good bit less than I have in them.

 

Who's going to be able to sell Saigas, with those Akdals on the market, and taking a greater share every day?

 

I forecast the time, when Akdals will do to the Saigas, just exactly what Saigas did to the Mossbergs, the Remingtons and Benellis. And it won't be a pretty picture...

 

Just my opinion. Opinions being subjective of course, others may vary widely.

 

But for me, yeah, the contest is over, so over...

Edited March 8, 2012 by Ezra

[haugpatr 972]

I really wasn't sure if they would shoot 3" shells. Thanks for clearing that up for me. I am glad people are happy with their Akdal's, I am happy with my Saiga. I would really like to shoot an Akdal some time.

[TonyRumore 1,330]

Obviously, I am a fan of the AKDAL as well, but the Contest is certainly not over when it comes to short SBS shotguns. In fact, the AKDAL is barely in the game.

95% of my business is SBS's so I'm certainly not giving up on the Saiga by any means.

 

Tony Rumore

Tromix

[Jasper 19]

I think both guns are great. I prefer the feel of the 1919 myself. As far as drums go, never say never. People are smart. If someone really wants it done they'll figure it out.

 

Btw, the gun looks beautiful. I don't care for the break, but it looks great! Congrats!

 

Shoot more and you will realize form follows function. I see no need for the door breaching mall ninja muzzle devices but they still sell like crazy. Its for the guys who are pretty sure they will have to use the sharks teeth on the muzzle device to finish off that last zombie after the drum is empty.

 

I'll still take my Saiga-12, I thought that those only shoot 2.75 inch shells and not 3 inch shells, so if that is the case it won't really eat anything, and it will never have a drum mag.

 

So you say it wont shoot 3" and that means what? Tell ya what, do a little research and learn something about them before you show us again just how little you do know and yet spout an opinion.

I bet I can put 23 aimed rounds downrange faster than you can with your drum.

 

If it doesn't shoot 3" shells then it won't eat anything, and you were the one who stated an opinion in the title of the thread, why would you not expect someone to reply with theirs.

 

I didn't insult you in my response and take some offense that you insulted me. I only stated facts in my response.

 

Opinions are like assholes, eveyone's got one. But people like you are just assholes. Sorry for stating facts.

 

It's also good to know you are the all knowing shotgun expert, now I don't have to read posts from Tom Cole or Tony Rumore.

Nope. You made a stement from a position of ignorance and are mad cause it was pointed out. I'm far from an expert but don't make a claim without some idea of the subject. Have a nice weekend.

 

Edit for an apology of sorts. I honestly don't mean to insult you personally. Did I mean to goad you? Yup. My intent is to try and get the " my saiga is the neatest shotgun in the whole world" crowd to get past the ak vs ar stupidity and take a look at what is plainly a superior platform. I have had several S12's and they did what I expected.

What is exasperating is people making a claim when they don't have any basis of fact. Tell me you LIKE the saiga better or don't like the Akdal and that's just opinion. But I have read at least a few dozen posts since this came out that the S12 is better from people who have not shot even one mag out of one.

And gunshop comandos who may have held one can't pull that the saiga is better because they held one and didn't LIKE it of for no other reason there simply is no room in their closed minds since they already just know the Saiga is the bestest shotgun ever.

This is a saiga forum first so this type of response from blindly loyal fanboys isn't going to stop so I'm going to stop. It's a waste of time but I those who are open minded get a chance to really judge for yourselves.

Edited March 9, 2012 by Jasper

[ShadowFire 220]

Obviously, I am a fan of the AKDAL as well, but the Contest is certainly not over when it comes to short SBS shotguns. In fact, the AKDAL is barely in the game.

95% of my business is SBS's so I'm certainly not giving up on the Saiga by any means.

 

Tony Rumore

Tromix

 

Amen, never did care for the "ultimate (insert kind of gun)" conversations after I owned a decent variety of guns [Naturally a Saiga and an AR are a great start for such a collection with that objective].

 

I started to realize there were things I liked about all of the platforms and to try to put the best of each one into one gun from an engineering standpoint is very very tricky, some pieces of engineering will definately conflict with each other and make you remove them before you can build a prototype (never have built a prototype but it would be fun).

 

So I started to enjoy both platforms for what they offered. The AR ergonomics, the AKs dependability, Glocks reduced weight, 1911s major accuracy, Desert Eagle's firepower in semi-auto form, Bolt actions simplicity and accuracy with full on battle cartridges, 870 for it's smooth action and tried and true performance, on and on. I savor each one like a well marinated and cooked steak.

 

In essance I like guns. That's all I concentrate on, each round fired at the target, savoring each shot.

[Nailbomb 10,221]

LOL, Glad one persons opinion changed the whole game and ended the contest.

 

Yes! YES!

 

Soon the prices on S-12s will drop! MUahahahaha!

[haugpatr 972]

I think both guns are great. I prefer the feel of the 1919 myself. As far as drums go, never say never. People are smart. If someone really wants it done they'll figure it out.

 

Btw, the gun looks beautiful. I don't care for the break, but it looks great! Congrats!

 

Shoot more and you will realize form follows function. I see no need for the door breaching mall ninja muzzle devices but they still sell like crazy. Its for the guys who are pretty sure they will have to use the sharks teeth on the muzzle device to finish off that last zombie after the drum is empty.

 

I'll still take my Saiga-12, I thought that those only shoot 2.75 inch shells and not 3 inch shells, so if that is the case it won't really eat anything, and it will never have a drum mag.

 

So you say it wont shoot 3" and that means what? Tell ya what, do a little research and learn something about them before you show us again just how little you do know and yet spout an opinion.

I bet I can put 23 aimed rounds downrange faster than you can with your drum.

 

If it doesn't shoot 3" shells then it won't eat anything, and you were the one who stated an opinion in the title of the thread, why would you not expect someone to reply with theirs.

 

I didn't insult you in my response and take some offense that you insulted me. I only stated facts in my response.

 

Opinions are like assholes, eveyone's got one. But people like you are just assholes. Sorry for stating facts.

 

It's also good to know you are the all knowing shotgun expert, now I don't have to read posts from Tom Cole or Tony Rumore.

Nope. You made a stement from a position of ignorance and are mad cause it was pointed out. I'm far from an expert but don't make a claim without some idea of the subject. Have a nice weekend.

 

Let me help you with reading comprehension, here is what I said

 

I thought that those only shoot 2.75 inch shells and not 3 inch shells, so if that is the case it won't really eat anything

 

Notice the area in bold, kind of looks like a question and not a statement.

 

Have a nice life being a douche-bag! Too bad the special olympics doesn't have a shotgun category, I am sure you would win

[pikapp168 17]

Arguing on the Internet is like running a race in the special Olympics. Either win or lose you're still retarded.

[Marc 147]

Obviously, I am a fan of the AKDAL as well, but the Contest is certainly not over when it comes to short SBS shotguns. In fact, the AKDAL is barely in the game.

95% of my business is SBS's so I'm certainly not giving up on the Saiga by any means.

 

Tony Rumore

Tromix

 

Out of curiosity, how short a barrel do you think you can do on the AKDAL and still cycle with Tromix reliability?

[TonyRumore 1,330]

Right now, that's only 14" without using excessively large gas ports or redesigning the gas system. You have to realize, no matter how many times you tell customers to use full power ammo, the first thing they do, is go to Walmart and buy the cheapest, lowest powered ammo available on the planet.

 

However, I plan on building some "Professional" models that will most likely run an 11" barrel for use with full power slugs and buck.

 

Tony

[Marc 147]

Interesting...thanks for the info!

[gizmorn 0]

Jasper, how much was the forearm and where did you get it?

[snafu360 21]

Jasper,Love the setup man..I will retire my S12 the very next day as soon as Hi-Cap mags become available..

Figured the closer I can get my shotgun to feeling like my AR..the better..

Don't let mister haven't shot an Akdal, know it not at all, ruin your thread.

Plain and simple..

Out of the box the Akdal kills the S12 tolerance/performance wise.

We have all had to finger fuck our S12's to get them running top notch.

Why do you think Jim is selling a decked out Akdal for nearly half the cost of one of his Open S12's?

The S12 isn't going anywhere for reasons Tony mentioned earlier...

If anything.. the Akdal will help drive the cost of the S12 down.

"so if that is the case"..keep your panties out of a wad and realize the Akdal is helping.

[Nailbomb 10,221]

If you like your shotgun, thats great. I have 3 S-12s, I don't go around yelling about how much better it is than berreta shotguns.

 

Creating a separatist atmosphere doesn't do any of us any good. There was no *Contest*. Your gun has pros and cons, and each user will figure them out individually.

[RED333 1,025]

Creating a separatist atmosphere doesn't do any of us any good. There was no *Contest*. Your gun has pros and cons, and each user will figure them out individually.

+1

[theturtlepond 31]

By the looks of it, for $1900 I could get a Saiga to do the same thing. With my experience with my Akdal, I would chose my Saiga any day. The 1919 is pretty sweet though, but my saiga can throw down just as well.

[Jasper 19]

I think I understand a bit how a muslim in the middle east feels like when he converts to christianity. I'm done here. Good luck to the open minded and maybe the others will be open to alternatives some day.