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Is it legal to hunt with a converted Saiga Shotgun in NY?


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#1 C-Par

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 09:49 PM

I have some relatives in NY and would like to hunt turkey and maybe deer on their land.
I am from out of state. I cannot find it stated anywhere that you can not use a shotgun with a pistol grip.

The only rule I find is the mag capacity rule.

#2 MolonLabe

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 09:55 PM

We're still under a state assault weapons ban.
your shotgun would have to have a thumbhole stock.
no p grip, and fixed stocks only on Saiga 12s

shotgun assault weapon:
Semi-automatic shotguns with two or more of the following:
  • Folding or telescoping stock X
  • Pistol grip X
  • Fixed capacity of more than 5 rounds
  • Detachable magazine

Edited by Foxtrot Oscar, 08 March 2012 - 09:57 PM.


#3 YOT

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 10:24 PM

Actually the exact wording is:


• A semiautomatic shotgun that has at least two of the following
characteristics:

• a folding or telescoping stock;
• a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action
of the weapon;
• a fixed magazine capacity in excess of five rounds;
• an ability to accept a detachable magazine.



It already has "the ability to accept a detachable magazine" so any more than that makes it a no-go. There is no other interpretation.

Edited by Yeoldetool, 08 March 2012 - 10:26 PM.

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"It isn't always being fast or even accurate that counts, it's being willing. I found out early that most men regardless of cause or need aren't willing. They blink an eye or draw a breath before they pull the trigger and I won't." - The Shootist (John Wayne)

 

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#4 C-Par

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 02:08 PM

That is retarded. Even in sporting config you break the rules do to detachable magazines. I see a grey area. I see normal shotguns now with a pistol grip. Also is a tube extender a magazine? For example the ones use in 3 gun. Those can work on many so called legal semi auto shotguns. The shape should not matter, the pistol grip thing is stupid. This gun is a sport shotgun and changing the ergos should not be a big deal.

I thought it would be cool to show them a Saiga converted to a turkey gun. I'd love to say I got a turkey with it.

#5 YOT

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 04:17 PM

That is retarded. Even in sporting config you break the rules do to detachable magazines. I see a grey area. I see normal shotguns now with a pistol grip. Also is a tube extender a magazine? For example the ones use in 3 gun. Those can work on many so called legal semi auto shotguns. The shape should not matter, the pistol grip thing is stupid. This gun is a sport shotgun and changing the ergos should not be a big deal.

I thought it would be cool to show them a Saiga converted to a turkey gun. I'd love to say I got a turkey with it.


wut.......

You don't break any laws in sporting configuration. You only have a semiautomatic shotgun that will accept a detachable magazine, period. That's one evil feature, not "at least two..."

There is no gray area. If you are referring to pump shotguns as "normal", the assault weapons definition only refers to semiautomatics.

Tube extenders would not be legal for hunting, which is what the OP asked about.

A converted S12 with a thumbhole stock is legal in NY.

I agree that NY State has some inane laws, but that's just the way it is.
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"It isn't always being fast or even accurate that counts, it's being willing. I found out early that most men regardless of cause or need aren't willing. They blink an eye or draw a breath before they pull the trigger and I won't." - The Shootist (John Wayne)

 

"You have enemies?  Good!  That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life" - Winston Churchill

 


#6 C-Par

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 06:50 PM

Yeah I see what you mean, right now I'm in the sporting mode. I's like to put a rail system on it and a red dot.

If I keep it that way I'm good.


So I am guessing you are not allowed to hunt deer with an AR, even if you have a low capacity mag.

Upstate NY is so different than the city, too bad the city runs the state.


I've seen some post with a skeleton stock that some of you claim to by NY legal. If it is all one solid piece is that considered a pistol grip? If I use that I should be good right?

Edited by C-Par, 09 March 2012 - 07:05 PM.


#7 YOT

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 07:11 PM

So I am guessing you are not allowed to hunt deer with an AR, even if you have a low capacity mag.


Sure you can, as long as it meets the right criteria......

“Assault weapon” is defined as:

A semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable

magazine and has at least two of the following characteristics:

• a folding or telescoping stock;
• a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action
of the weapon;
• a bayonet mount;
• a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate
a flash suppressor;
• a grenade launcher.

You have a semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has * "a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon."
Any more evil features besides that would make it illegal. So no folding or telescopic stock and no bayonet lug or grenade launcher.
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"It isn't always being fast or even accurate that counts, it's being willing. I found out early that most men regardless of cause or need aren't willing. They blink an eye or draw a breath before they pull the trigger and I won't." - The Shootist (John Wayne)

 

"You have enemies?  Good!  That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life" - Winston Churchill

 


#8 MolonLabe

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 10:16 PM

Some counties prohibit hunting with rifles. Everything else is fair game, not sure about crossbow. Check out the DEC

http://www.dec.ny.go...or/hunting.html

they have almost everything you need to know.

I believe your mags are only supposed to accept 5 rounds. Maybe 6 I can't remember. either 5+1 or 6+1 in the chamber

#9 YOT

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 11:44 PM

FO, You are entirely correct about the manner of taking in different WMUs. It is 5+1 according to the game book.

"It isn't always being fast or even accurate that counts, it's being willing. I found out early that most men regardless of cause or need aren't willing. They blink an eye or draw a breath before they pull the trigger and I won't." - The Shootist (John Wayne)

 

"You have enemies?  Good!  That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life" - Winston Churchill

 


#10 MolonLabe

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 12:21 AM

FO, You are entirely correct about the manner of taking in different WMUs. It is 5+1 according to the game book.

WMU?

Also your saiga furniture is beautiful btw what's it made of?

#11 YOT

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 06:46 AM

Wildlife Management Unit........ http://www.dec.ny.go...tdoor/8302.html

Thank you. It's made out of black/black laminated birch.

"It isn't always being fast or even accurate that counts, it's being willing. I found out early that most men regardless of cause or need aren't willing. They blink an eye or draw a breath before they pull the trigger and I won't." - The Shootist (John Wayne)

 

"You have enemies?  Good!  That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life" - Winston Churchill

 


#12 MolonLabe

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 04:20 PM

ah so that's what they're called. thanks.

#13 C-Par

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 05:33 PM

Posted Image
Is this stock considered a Thumbhole stock in NY. The main reason for my conversion would be to have a better trigger group.

#14 YOT

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 06:24 PM

Yes, C-Par. That's a very nice thumbhole stock.

"It isn't always being fast or even accurate that counts, it's being willing. I found out early that most men regardless of cause or need aren't willing. They blink an eye or draw a breath before they pull the trigger and I won't." - The Shootist (John Wayne)

 

"You have enemies?  Good!  That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life" - Winston Churchill

 


#15 C-Par

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 09:32 PM

I got a Big thumb, LOL.
Good deals in the classified sections.

#16 MolonLabe

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 09:41 PM

Just got mine today.
A bit short for me. I'm 5'11" and my wingspan's about the same. If the stock was just an inch longer it would be perfect, I like my stocks to reach the crook of my arm when bent at a 90 degree angle.

The stock is 13" from the top part of the buttpad to the space right above the grip. Not sure how comfortable it will be.
Can't beat $17 dollars.
Posted Image

Also, some will tell you that it's a 'gray area' having a thumbhole stock on a Saiga 12, but currently the Akdal MKA1919 shotgun has a pistol grip and a detachable magazine, so it should be totally illegal, considered an assault weapon... gun stores are still selling them anyway. So you're not going to get into any trouble because technically it's not a pistol grip.

Edited by Foxtrot Oscar, 10 March 2012 - 09:45 PM.


#17 3rdgeargrndrr

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 11:36 PM

kali chiming in, so a tube magazine extension as long as it is plugged or less than 5rounds would be legal. if you purchased a kali bullet button, you would thus have the infmaous "non-detachable mag" unless you used a tool to remove the mag, same as any other magazine, tube or otherwise. you could then choose to have a pistol grip if you wanted, because you would not have 2 of the characteristics. if you are using the stock saiga 5 round mag, i have a raddlock button i could sell you. it works great in the sotck mags, but agp and sgm mags not so good.

#18 YOT

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 03:56 AM

I wouldn't want a bullet button for hunting.......ever.

"It isn't always being fast or even accurate that counts, it's being willing. I found out early that most men regardless of cause or need aren't willing. They blink an eye or draw a breath before they pull the trigger and I won't." - The Shootist (John Wayne)

 

"You have enemies?  Good!  That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life" - Winston Churchill

 


#19 Avtomatkalashnikov

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 12:44 PM

ny gun laws are bull.....imo they violate our 2nd amendment.

#20 YOT

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 02:42 PM

ny gun laws are bull.....imo they violate our 2nd amendment.


As bad as they are, there are worse.

"It isn't always being fast or even accurate that counts, it's being willing. I found out early that most men regardless of cause or need aren't willing. They blink an eye or draw a breath before they pull the trigger and I won't." - The Shootist (John Wayne)

 

"You have enemies?  Good!  That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life" - Winston Churchill

 


#21 -Shooter-

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 12:11 PM

Posted Image
Is this stock considered a Thumbhole stock in NY. The main reason for my conversion would be to have a better trigger group.


I used to have this exact stock on my S12. It's an awesome stock and is rock solid.

Do you take vitamins?
Is there Vitamin C in Newports?
No, but you can't get a snitch shanked for a dozen oranges no matter how hard you try.


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#22 YOT

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 06:14 PM

I just got one for a future project!Posted Image

"It isn't always being fast or even accurate that counts, it's being willing. I found out early that most men regardless of cause or need aren't willing. They blink an eye or draw a breath before they pull the trigger and I won't." - The Shootist (John Wayne)

 

"You have enemies?  Good!  That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life" - Winston Churchill

 


#23 -Shooter-

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 08:03 PM

I just got one for a future project!Posted Image


Congrats. It's a winner, no doubt.

It honestly made me not really care about not being able to have a normal stock/PG setup. It's just an awesome stock.

Do you take vitamins?
Is there Vitamin C in Newports?
No, but you can't get a snitch shanked for a dozen oranges no matter how hard you try.


"As for missing anything good, Chile has been posting some killer recipes if you have a vendetta against your asshole." - DaveM


#24 C-Par

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 09:13 PM

Guys Just an update, I finally did the conversion with that stock. It came out great just want to try out the new configuration at the range first.
I might post pics soon. Mine is hunter friendly I have the cobra choke adapter so I can can chokes for different hunting.

#25 C-Par

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 01:49 PM

Due to the recent laws I will never bring my Saiga anywhere near NY.  Old school Mossberg it is.

 

I feel for you guys I'm in MD and we are currently under the same pressure.






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