mah7974 2 Posted March 10, 2012 Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 Okay... Today I want to know what wrong with this people in New York State... I am a college student; I go to RIT (Rochester Institute of Technology). My major is a Computer Integrated Machining Technology and I want to work for the Red Jacket or gunsmith in the military. I have been hunting for eight years in Savannah, Georgia that where I was born and rise. We decide to set up the club for hunting training program at RIT (NOTE: We don't own or bring our firearms on the campus which it is against the laws). Yesterday, three students passed their safety education, and then we went to Wal-Mart to get their licenses for Small and Big Game Hunting. We are all deaf but I am hard of hearing. I always goes hunt with other five people in the Wildlife Management Area in Rush, NY and NO PROBLEM with the DEC Law Enforcement Officer in the area of Region 8. We decided to go to Town of Greece in New York to hunt in Beatty Pointe which it was WMA (Wildlife Management Area), and we also went to look for coyotes which can allow any guns and any type of bullet. So, we brought the Single Shot .22 caliber Lever, Single Shot 20 gauge shotgun with .22 caliber (Two different barrel on one gun), Mosin Nagant 91/30 Bolt Action, and the Saiga 7.62x39 Semi-Automatic. I saw the sign about the rules "Hunter must be licensed to carry firearms on this field to shoot and no target shooting". We went into the wood and couldn't find any coyotes for few hours, and so we were shooting at the ground and tree, I was doing bump fire on the ground with Saiga 7.62x39 just for see how it feel like and how the guns functional as well (Their first time to shoot with a rifle and shotgun). After that we were on the way out, one buddy was with me and two other buddies were in 60 yards away behind us. Then, there were three SWAT Officers waiting for us. One SWAT were on the knee pointing AR-15 at me and other one were pointing Glock 23 at my buddy, one behind them was on the radio, they didn't do the signals light to warn us, when I saw them I was like "WHOA!!! *we drop the weapon immediately and put our hands up* DON'T SHOOT!!!! WE ARE DEAF!!! WE CAN'T HEAR YOU!!! WE ARE UNHARM!!!"" then they was using their hand motion telling us to close to them away from the weapons. Then they were doing body search to find handgun (We don't have handgun) and took away our pocket knife. All these eleven cops and four SWAT were acting like a monkey about the Saiga 7.62x39 comparing to their AR-15 .223 Calibers which it was freaking them out and saying that AK-47 is illegal in USA. I told them it is legal to own and use because it has been approved by one of the ATF which it was applied to the 922r and it also a sporting rifle depend on the parts of the rifle. And so, they were planning to arrest us for possession of firearms. I told them that we need an interpreter and they ignored our request. I also told them that we are legally to hunt with our own firearms in Wildlife Management Area for coyotes which are not limited to any of firearms. We show them our hunting license, then they were arguing about which is illegal or not. After that, they called the DEC Law Enforcement Officer about the hunting issues. DEC officer arrived and took over the case and he just gave us tickets and gave our guns back and all the cops were freaking out and shocked that we are legally to hunt with any of the firearms that are approved from the ATF. The tickets were like a parking ticket and nothing serious! WHAT THE FUCK?! Why can’t these cops trust their own civilian in the USA? DEC Law Enforcement Officer was being cool with us and he was saying that they are not used to the civilian that owns heavy duty firearms and use it in the hunting game. He also told me that the Town of Greece doesn’t allow any rifle in the WMA but only shotgun and bow, and it was on the below of the sign of ruling which we didn’t see! So he just gave us a tickets, Nothing serious... I am still confused the DEC said on the website we can hunt anywhere in the statewide for coyotes but cops makes their own ruling in their town??! That just doesn't make sense. The cops violated our ADA rights, and because three of my buddies are fully deaf, they just don't know what going on because they can't hear. So, I help to explain them of what going on because cops denied our request for the interpreter. My buddies and I were thinking about suing them for our ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act) Rights being violated but we didn’t get arrested. Should we do that? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
libertarian 108 Posted March 10, 2012 Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 If you choose to live in a "ban" state, you get what you get. This is (mostly) a great country (exept for states like, NY, NJ, CA, and CT) , full of personal choices, and real consequenses. Examine your priorities, and decide for yourself if this is acceptable to you, in order to live in the state you have chosen. Or whether you may wish to live in a state that does not send a SWAT team to deal with a bunch of guys out to enjoy a range day. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bai78 1 Posted March 10, 2012 Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 My 2¢ is that your request for an intepretor should have been granted. That's what ADA is for, to make reasonable accommodations for those that require it. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
preparehandbook 326 Posted March 10, 2012 Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 that sucks. Thankfully it worked out OK. Sue the bastards. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vitamink 90 Posted March 10, 2012 Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 How exactly did the cops violate your ADA rights? "When a requested accommodation would result in a fundamental alteration or undue burden, the police or law enforcement agency must take any other action it can to ensure that communication with you is as effective as possible. For example, it may be impossible to provide interpreter services when a police officer stops your car for a routine traffic violation. The police officer should take any other action possible to communicate effectively with you, such as exchanging written information with you." Essentially as long as you can communicate there isn't an issue. Now if you were arrested, being interviewed, or issued a search warrant or whatever then it is up to YOU to request an interpreter and it is up to the state to provide one. In indiana you can hunt deer with a shotgun, however in indianapolis if you discharge a firearm within the city limits then you go to jail. Indianapolis is in the center of indiana. I think the blame here falls on you for not checking your local ordinances. Trying to sue the police is utterly ridiculous. It sucks you got a ticket, but man up and pay it. Next time check your local ordinances before you go hunting or stay where you know it's OK. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thehun 20 Posted March 10, 2012 Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 The reason you probably got into what you got into is when you started bump firing the weapon in a public area...even though probably there was no one around you..you do not know where you sprayed those bullets (and if you tell me that you can accurately bump fire i will be really impressed) and someone called you in. HERE IS THE PROBLEM WITH THIS COUNTRY...we want to sue every freakin people we can even if they breath wrong...seriously...can you not ask forgiveness for their mistakes (which there were none made) or better yet..put yourself in their shoes...they get a call from somebody (probably in the woods hunting just like you) and they start hearing bump fire (which sounds like full auto)..which in most public hunting areas there is probably an ordinance against shooting faster than 3 sec between shots..you come out with an AK variant and the police uses extreme caution to make sure everyone is safe....the POLICE DO NOT GET UP IN THE MORNING AND SAY GEE I AM OUT TO KILL YOU OR SHOOT YOU...TRUST ME THAT IS THE LAST THING A POLICE OFFICER THINKS ABOUT 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
preparehandbook 326 Posted March 10, 2012 Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 I still say sue them. When cops are charged with enforcing a law and don't even have a clue (ie-aks are illegal) they deserve to be sued so that they will not make such a moronic mistake again. I worked for many a year training cops and if one ever made as stupid a claim as "ak's are illegal" they'd be riding a damned desk until they could recite the approriate section of code. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mogunner 240 Posted March 10, 2012 Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 So you were in an area that said no target shooting... And you decided to bumpfire. And you failed to read the posted sign entirely and were shooting an AK variant in an area where they aren't allowed. And you were in New York... you're lucky to be alive. Seriously. 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
idaho John 3 Posted March 10, 2012 Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 Agreed, you have no case. It's your responsibility to know the local laws. Especially in a state like New York. And as someone with a disability, I'm surprised your use a term like "retard". It's offensive to us 'mentaly challenged' folks! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
preparehandbook 326 Posted March 10, 2012 Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 I guess the last two posts are right and you don't have a case... So if I were you I'd FRIVOLOUSLY sue them. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vitamink 90 Posted March 10, 2012 Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 I still say sue them. When cops are charged with enforcing a law and don't even have a clue (ie-aks are illegal) they deserve to be sued so that they will not make such a moronic mistake again. I worked for many a year training cops and if one ever made as stupid a claim as "ak's are illegal" they'd be riding a damned desk until they could recite the approriate section of code. Actually, do sue them Good luck with that! Perhaps by AK's are illegal they meant, considering the season, or due to mag capacity (i believe they are limited to 5rds). We don't know since we weren't there...sue them anyways though it'll teach 'em a lesson...the lesson is, no matter what, whenever anyone's butt gets hurt they'll try to sue you. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
preparehandbook 326 Posted March 10, 2012 Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 I'm reversing my stance here. I missed the "no target shooting" part. Read the sign better next time. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thehun 20 Posted March 10, 2012 Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 (edited) OK Let me make this as clear as sky. YOU acknowledge the simple fact that you saw a sign that said "no target shooting" yet you still target shot at the ground and a tree THAN he bump fired in a public HUNTING area THAT ALLOWS NO RIFLES That bump fire probably got reported as automatic rifle fire in a public area The police got the call that someone is firing full auto in a public hunting area (illegal) SWAT gets call to respond and check You have some people come out of woods with AK like weapons (if you can spot that they are not full auto rifles from 50-100 yrds away, than your a hero) Police sees them or him with SUCH rifles...orders them to drop down there weapons Investigation is done...no one is hurt no one is taken to jail no one got their weapons taken TELL ME WHERE THE POLICE DID ANYTHING WRONG...sure they are deaf and the other is hard hearing...but it is obvious that there was communication done since they did not ride to downtown for an interpreter THEY ARE THE ONES THAT BROKE THE LAW AND MESSED WITH YOUR 2ND AMENDMENT RIGHTS BY NOT KNOWING THE ORDINANCE...DO NOT BLAME THE POLICE FOR THIS AND SAY TO GO SUE THEM... ALSO JUST BECAUSE YOU DID NOT SEE THE SIGN DOES NOT MEAN YOU ARE OFF THE HOOK..IT IS POSTED AND ITS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY AS A RESPONSIBLE CITIZEN TO KNOW..YOU GUYS ARE SO LUCKY NOT TO BE SITTING IN JAIL FOR THIS IT IS NOT EVEN FUNNY..AND YET YOU WANT TO SUE...SERIOUSLY BAFFLED Edited March 10, 2012 by thehun 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dayofruin 425 Posted March 10, 2012 Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 But officer, I didn't see the sign that said "55 mph". I know I was going 80 but I didn't see it. Makes about as much sense.... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
preparehandbook 326 Posted March 10, 2012 Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 I research where I shoot and hunt well because I don't want to risk trouble or potentially lose a firearm. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
twoskinsoneman 72 Posted March 10, 2012 Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 No you shouldn't sue. You were in the wrong and probably deserve a ticket for breaking the target shooting ordinance. It is probably there to keep idiots who just want to target practice from scaring off the game. If the cops were jerks to you you just have to get used to it. IMHO most of em feel like they are the only ones who should have guns because they are in a line of work where bad people with guns sometime try to kill them. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DogMan 2,343 Posted March 10, 2012 Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 Quit Whining. You and your buddies gave some New York cops an excuse to show up and give some shooters a hard time. What did you think was going to happen? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chevyman097 2,579 Posted March 10, 2012 Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 Engrish? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ironhead7544 35 Posted March 10, 2012 Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 (edited) WMAs have their own rules and can vary between each one. Some do not allow firearms at all. Check with the ranger station before going out there. Edited March 10, 2012 by ironhead7544 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
auburn2 1 Posted March 10, 2012 Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 No you should not sue. You did some things wrong by your own admission. I can say that the SWAT response was way over the top, but typical of the kind of stupid crap that happens with respect to guns in the northeast. Honestly in NY you are lucky you didn't get shot first .. then ask questions. If you had been shot we would have read about the "terrorists in New York with machine guns" that SWAT had to take down. Here in Alabama you would have still got a ticket, but the cops that showed up would have likely been from the local sherrif's department, with their weapons out but not pointing at you. After you cleared things they probably would have wanted to check out your guns (not take them just see how "cool" they are). 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mah7974 2 Posted March 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 (edited) Thank you everyone for the feedback and advice! I really appreciate for those who are being helpful! I just spoke with the head of DEC in State of New York about the situation in Town of Greece. The head of Law Enforcement Officer told me that the Town of Greece is very small and still a virgin to their DEC Registration, which was suppose to be update to their section of code to teach their cops about the WMA policy which its allow any hunter to discharge any firearms to the animal prey depend on what kind of animals. Now, the head of DEC told me that the cops were making big deal about us being in area which it was illegal to hunt and possession of illegal firearms; He also said we are very lucky that we did show them our DEC Hunting License which it required the cops and SWAT to called the DEC Law Enforcement Officer to check on us within the laws then DEC Officer took over the case and dumped it in the trash and just give us a ticket for using wrong firearms in the area which do not allow rifle but only shotgun and bow. Our fines on tickets are $0 and no recorded on our hunting license. The partner of DEC Law Enforcement Officer told me that the cops in Town of Greece don’t know shit about DEC Registration in Region 8 Policy and Season, and hunters are legally to use any firearms to hunt animals on any Wildlife Management Area depend on the type of animals and season but we have to be more careful from now on and double check the local ordinance in each town. In state of New York, DEC do not allow any target shooting in any Wildlife Management Area but if it was a missed fire while aiming the animals then it is ok. DEC also said it not a big deal if I bump fire at the ground or tree or animal but not in the air where it spread the bullets to different places because there may be other hunter around that can get shot by accident, no target shooting were define as: “Cannot shoot anything that consider like a shooting range or practical target”. I also spoke to my lawyer; she said that they didn’t make any arrest on us so they didn’t provide any interpreter but they did violate our ADA rights. It is not worth to sue them for non-arrest and no case on us, the tickets were only made from DEC Officer but not Town of Greece Cops. Thank God I am from Georgia because New York Laws are just nuts! I only stay in Rochester, New York for my college career at RIT (Rochester Intitute of Technology) thats why. Edited March 10, 2012 by mah7974 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
charlieschoice 10 Posted March 10, 2012 Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 (edited) So you were in an area that said no target shooting... And you decided to bumpfire. And you failed to read the posted sign entirely and were shooting an AK variant in an area where they aren't allowed. And you were in New York... you're lucky to be alive. Seriously. Living in New York state for some time (Syracuse and Watertown area) this was the first post I came across that I agree with 100%. After leaving NY I was asked some time later to relocate to Albany. I told them no way. They asked me why. I told them "dumb gun laws and I can't even live within city limits due to some of the firearms I own". You're lucky you got off, period. Not the brightest move on your end to bumpfire the Saiga while hunting, and I'm putting that as nice as I can say it. Count your blessings, graduate, and then MOVE OUT. Edited March 10, 2012 by charlieschoice 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DogMan 2,343 Posted March 10, 2012 Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 Are there any other Phil Hendrie fans here? This guy reminds me of the sue-happy "Steve Bosell". 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mah7974 2 Posted March 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 Are there any other Phil Hendrie fans here? This guy reminds me of the sue-happy "Steve Bosell". LOL!!! I didn't want to do all the suing stuff but my buddies were encouraging me to sue cops for our ADA rights, they are all deaf and they just can't freaking hear when the SWAT were shouting at them. I have to be the one interpreting for them because they are my friends! Today, one of them just told me that he almost shit in his pant when he saw SWAT pointing AR-15 at his face by surprise way. To be honest, it was their first time to do the hunting involving in our club at RIT and even it was their first time to touch and shoot the firearms after they passed their safety education and got their own license to be a legal hunter. Who the hell is Steve Bosell and Phil Hendrie anyway? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DogMan 2,343 Posted March 10, 2012 Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 Are there any other Phil Hendrie fans here? This guy reminds me of the sue-happy "Steve Bosell". LOL!!! I didn't want to do all the suing stuff but my buddies were encouraging me to sue cops for our ADA rights, they are all deaf and they just can't freaking hear when the SWAT were shouting at them. I have to be the one interpreting for them because they are my friends! Today, one of them just told me that he almost shit in his pant when he saw SWAT pointing AR-15 at his face by surprise way. To be honest, it was their first time to do the hunting involving in our club at RIT and even it was their first time to touch and shoot the firearms after they passed their safety education and got their own license to be a legal hunter. Who the hell is Steve Bosell and Phil Hendrie anyway? It's a comedy radio show that has different made-up recurring characters who's voices are all done by the host Phil Hendrie. One of the characters is Steve Bosell who is always sueing somebody for some ridiculous little thing. He is always in tears and claiming things like "emotional rape" because somebody slighted him about something. Not that your reaction was that bad but your immediate willingness to sue did have that same flavor. I hope your attorney didn't charge you anything because that was a waste of money. I would just let it go and learn from the experience. I go to California often and shooting is never on the agenda. Even if I know all the laws I can't count on all the LEOs to know all the laws so I don't bother. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mancat 2,368 Posted March 10, 2012 Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 Pay attention to signage, know your shooting area and its restrictions (contact local management authorities for land maps), and NEVER go in the woods without someone who can hear. I have friends that have been shot at by other hunters - having nobody in your party that can hear is totally unsafe. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thehun 20 Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 For the fact that you also said it does not matter according to DEC that you bump fire into the ground or tree or an ANIMAL is actual proves that you have no idea about how to hunt properly and the DEC agent better not have said that..bump firing into an ANIMAL would be actually animal cruelty due to you not actually hunting the animal but would be doing it out of joy So mah7974 you can honestly say that when your bump firing you can account for every single bullet hitting ground/tree or in your case an animal....URGGGGH im done ranting Better yet...just get rid of your guns and stop messing with my 2nd amendment rights because you want to fool around with your weapons unsafely. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
havok 21 Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 I'am sorry but this has Deaf,dumb,blind and stupid is your middle name written all over this thread. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
preparehandbook 326 Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 "bump firing into an ANIMAL would be actually animal cruelty due to you not actually hunting the animal but would be doing it out of joy" For starters the concept of bump firing into an animal is so ridiculously farfetched and so absolutely wrong I can in no way support any aspect of the concept..... BUT.... Since when is hunting an animal "out of joy" an act that converts it to animal cruelty? Must I be morose and guilt ridden to legally hunt? How is this standard enforced? Seritonin level checks? The department of Fish and Game and Psychology? Personally I get a great deal of joy out of hunting, provided my skills and luck hold out and the animal dies quickly. So I guess I'm guilty of animal cruelty. If the quote was "out of perverse joy" I would agree with it, but the idea we should feel guilty about hunting is an ultra liberal myth born out of folks who have never had to hunt because they were hungry. One last thing here.... Why the bad english? The OP is a college student yet can't spell or use high school level grammar? Please provide a reasonable explanation or we might all start to suspect that you are actually a 12 year old with a pentient for story telling. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thehun 20 Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 I enjoy hunting..the right way...not bump firing into an animal or even make a remark like that would make me an irresponsible gun owner/hunter 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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