SWAT against Hunter! Is the cops in New York retarded or what?

[mogunner 240]

"bump firing into an ANIMAL would be actually animal cruelty due to you not actually hunting the animal but would be doing it out of joy"

 

For starters the concept of bump firing into an animal is so ridiculously farfetched and so absolutely wrong I can in no way support any aspect of the concept..... BUT....

 

Since when is hunting an animal "out of joy" an act that converts it to animal cruelty?

 

Must I be morose and guilt ridden to legally hunt?

 

How is this standard enforced? Seritonin level checks? The department of Fish and Game and Psychology?

 

Personally I get a great deal of joy out of hunting, provided my skills and luck hold out and the animal dies quickly. So I guess I'm guilty of animal cruelty.

 

If the quote was "out of perverse joy" I would agree with it, but the idea we should feel guilty about hunting is an ultra liberal myth born out of folks who have never had to hunt because they were hungry.

 

One last thing here....

 

Why the bad english? The OP is a college student yet can't spell or use high school level grammar? Please provide a reasonable explanation or we might all start to suspect that you are actually a 12 year old with a pentient for story telling.

 

 

I was kinda leaning that same way, but was hesitant to say anything as I was concerned that I might get sued for violating some rights that deaf people have that allows them to not use spellcheck or a dictionary or something similar...

 

And just for the record, I'm considered legally deaf too. I target shoot and hunt with people who CAN hear.

Edited March 11, 2012 by mogunner

[preparehandbook 326]

Bump firing at an animal would be as wrong as hunting with land mines.

 

When I lived in Hawaii the DLNR decided to eradicate problem feral cows by flying around in a helicopter and spraying them with a full auto AR. In one weekend they killed over 140 cows and left them to rot. For a week people were encountering maimed cows wandering off the mountain.

 

This is the sort of result that comes from full auto hunting.

 

I assume thehun and I both feel that if you can't hit it with one shot you shouldn't be hunting.

[mogunner 240]

Feral cows? We have a problem with feral hogs here in Missouri, I'd take the cows over them any day!

[twoskinsoneman 72]

Thank you everyone for the feedback and advice! I really appreciate for those who are being helpful!

 

I just spoke with the head of DEC in State of New York about the situation in Town of Greece. The head of Law Enforcement Officer told me that the Town of Greece is very small and still a virgin to their DEC Registration, which was suppose to be update to their section of code to teach their cops about the WMA policy which its allow any hunter to discharge any firearms to the animal prey depend on what kind of animals.

 

Now, the head of DEC told me that the cops were making big deal about us being in area which it was illegal to hunt and possession of illegal firearms; He also said we are very lucky that we did show them our DEC Hunting License which it required the cops and SWAT to called the DEC Law Enforcement Officer to check on us within the laws then DEC Officer took over the case and dumped it in the trash and just give us a ticket for using wrong firearms in the area which do not allow rifle but only shotgun and bow. Our fines on tickets are $0 and no recorded on our hunting license.

 

The partner of DEC Law Enforcement Officer told me that the cops in Town of Greece don’t know shit about DEC Registration in Region 8 Policy and Season, and hunters are legally to use any firearms to hunt animals on any Wildlife Management Area depend on the type of animals and season but we have to be more careful from now on and double check the local ordinance in each town. In state of New York, DEC do not allow any target shooting in any Wildlife Management Area but if it was a missed fire while aiming the animals then it is ok. DEC also said it not a big deal if I bump fire at the ground or tree or animal but not in the air where it spread the bullets to different places because there may be other hunter around that can get shot by accident, no target shooting were define as: “Cannot shoot anything that consider like a shooting range or practical target”.

 

I also spoke to my lawyer; she said that they didn’t make any arrest on us so they didn’t provide any interpreter but they did violate our ADA rights. It is not worth to sue them for non-arrest and no case on us, the tickets were only made from DEC Officer but not Town of Greece Cops.

 

Thank God I am from Georgia because New York Laws are just nuts! I only stay in Rochester, New York for my college career at RIT (Rochester Intitute of Technology) thats why.

 

perhaps you could contact your embassy to see if your have some sort of diplomatic immunity?

[twoskinsoneman 72]

bump firing into an ANIMAL would be actually animal cruelty due to you...would be doing it out of joy

 

even make a remark like that would make me an irresponsible gun owner/hunter

 

I am always amazed when I see these liberalish attitudes on this forum.

 

How quickly is a quick death for an animal your are killing?

When does it become wrong to take the animals life?

If you enjoyed it, it was wrong?

 

If you believe it is wrong to take the life of an animal don't be a hypocrite and justify when YOU do it because you do it the RIGHT way...

[mah7974 2]

Look guys, sorry for my english I am still learning english because my family ONLY use spanish language, so I am still learning two different languages America Sign Language and English. I am not saying we actually bump fire at the animal. DEC Officer said "I don't care if you were bump firing at the ground, tree, or an animal." That doesn't mean we were doing it or going to do it. We don't allow any of our people to do the animal cruelty. When we find any animal to make a kill then we make sure it a CLEAN KILL. We don't want to see the animal suffer to death. I only came here to get some help and opinion because you guys might knows more than I do. I have been hunting for eight years in Georgia with my uncle, I shot many of the coins within 125 yards with sniper guns and killed a Hog at about 2000 yards away in the field in Texas. We are not trying to abuse the 2nd amendment rights, that why I am here to ask for your feedback about laws in New York. Why don't you help deaf people instead of leaving them out??? Many people have been doing that to us since we were a kids all over the USA! If you were deaf, you would understand what it feels like being in our shoes.. So, don't try to judge our deafness. We just cannot hear, and lack of knowledge because we can't receive a word from people mouth to our ears. We are fighting to stand up for our life and future by learning everything as best we can and getting support from ADA!! Deaf Power!!! You can check the history about DEAF PEOPLE:

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Deaf_history

http://en.wikipedia....udet_University

 

By the way, we don't enjoy killing animals. We kill animals to eat, not like those asian people that eat EVERYTHING, No offense, but it is true...

Edited March 11, 2012 by mah7974

[preparehandbook 326]

I consider learning a new language a very reasonable excuse for some poor grammar. I often wish I had that excuse when I write badly

 

I did not think you were actually bumpfiring at an animal, I just kind of got going on the fact that the DEC guy said that.

 

I have worked with the hearing impaired (though my ASL sucks) and welcome any and all to the shooting sports.

 

Please understand that we tend to get off on tangents and will argue with each other over a subject on this forum without it necessarily reflecting on the original post/ person.

 

The scariest thing I take from this is that the responding officers not knowing they were approaching deaf folks could easily have started shooting because they didn't get a response to their verbal instructions.

 

keep posting and keep shooting.

 

(A hog at 2,000 yards? Well, some of those Texas hogs are pretty big, you might have to get that far away just to see the whole thing in your scope)

[ChileRelleno 7,071]

Forget everything else in this thread... Hog at 2000 yards? I call serious bullshit!

[preparehandbook 326]

Forget everything else in this thread... Hog at 2000 yards? I call serious bullshit!

 

Bullshit?

 

Hardly.

 

The furthest succesful shot I've ever taken a hog with was 18,000 yards ( almost 10 1/4 miles).

 

The shot would normally have been routine but it was hailing the size of softballs so I had to wait until I had a clear shot between them.

 

I used a hi-point carbine with a custom barrel in .50 x .17 HMR which is my own personal wildcat cartridge consisting of a .17 HMR rimfire necked up to hold a .50 BMG 780 grain nose, velocities are in the low teens. I scoped it with a wal-mart red dot scope that comes free on their airsoft guns.

 

Normally The 12 moa red dot would cover a hog at those ranges but at an acerage velocity of 12 fps I have to use quite a lot of hold over allowing me to sight in under the dot. For this shot I elevated just over 91 degrees, aiming the gun slighty behind me, counting on wind to carry it back to target.

 

I spotted the 4,000 pound hog munching on a Geo Metro and using my 91 degree hold I let loose a round with a whistle and a pop. A few seconds later when I was sure the round had cleared my muzzle I packed up and went home to wait for the round to hit.

 

three days later I drove to the Hog's location just in time to see my round strike. It blew a 3 foot hole in the hog killing it instantly. I haven't calculated the muzzle energy of my wildcat round but I geusstimate it at around 2 kilotons.

 

By my inclusion of the hard ballistic facts and unquestionable details I have proven that a 2,000 round shot on a hog is something easily accomplished, my hound dog even occasionally makes shots on hogs at such minscule ranges.

Edited March 11, 2012 by preparehandbook

[mogunner 240]

Forget everything else in this thread... Hog at 2000 yards? I call serious bullshit!

 

Bullshit?

 

Hardly.

 

The furthest succesful shot I've ever taken a hog with was 18,000 yards ( almost 10 1/4 miles).

 

The shot would normally have been routine but it was hailing the size of softballs so I had to wait until I had a clear shot between them.

 

I used a hi-point carbine with a custom barrel in .50 x .17 HMR which is my own personal wildcat cartridge consisting of a .17 HMR rimfire necked up to hold a .50 BMG 780 grain nose, velocities are in the low teens. I scoped it with a wal-mart red dot scope that comes free on their airsoft guns.

 

Normally The 12 moa red dot would cover a hog at those ranges but at an acerage velocity of 12 fps I have to use quite a lot of hold over allowing me to sight in under the dot. For this shot I elevated just over 91 degrees, aiming the gun slighty behind me, counting on wind to carry it back to target.

 

I spotted the 4,000 pound hog munching on a Geo Metro and using my 91 degree hold I let loose a round with a whistle and a pop. A few seconds later when I was sure the round had cleared my muzzle I packed up and went home to wait for the round to hit.

 

three days later I drove to the Hog's location just in time to see my round strike. It blew a 3 foot hole in the hog killing it instantly. I haven't calculated the muzzle energy of my wildcat round but I geusstimate it at around 2 kilotons.

 

By my inclusion of the hard ballistic facts and unquestionable details I have proven that a 2,000 round shot on a hog is something easily accomplished, my hound dog even occasionally makes shots on hogs at such minscule ranges.

 

I call BS on this one... not even a feral hog would chew on a Geo Metro...

[twoskinsoneman 72]

Forget everything else in this thread... Hog at 2000 yards? I call serious bullshit!

 

Bullshit?

 

Hardly.

 

The furthest succesful shot I've ever taken a hog with was 18,000 yards ( almost 10 1/4 miles).

 

The shot would normally have been routine but it was hailing the size of softballs so I had to wait until I had a clear shot between them.

 

I used a hi-point carbine with a custom barrel in .50 x .17 HMR which is my own personal wildcat cartridge consisting of a .17 HMR rimfire necked up to hold a .50 BMG 780 grain nose, velocities are in the low teens. I scoped it with a wal-mart red dot scope that comes free on their airsoft guns.

 

Normally The 12 moa red dot would cover a hog at those ranges but at an acerage velocity of 12 fps I have to use quite a lot of hold over allowing me to sight in under the dot. For this shot I elevated just over 91 degrees, aiming the gun slighty behind me, counting on wind to carry it back to target.

 

I spotted the 4,000 pound hog munching on a Geo Metro and using my 91 degree hold I let loose a round with a whistle and a pop. A few seconds later when I was sure the round had cleared my muzzle I packed up and went home to wait for the round to hit.

 

three days later I drove to the Hog's location just in time to see my round strike. It blew a 3 foot hole in the hog killing it instantly. I haven't calculated the muzzle energy of my wildcat round but I geusstimate it at around 2 kilotons.

 

By my inclusion of the hard ballistic facts and unquestionable details I have proven that a 2,000 round shot on a hog is something easily accomplished, my hound dog even occasionally makes shots on hogs at such minscule ranges.

 

 

That is awesome! Thank you for a great laugh!

[preparehandbook 326]

Forget everything else in this thread... Hog at 2000 yards? I call serious bullshit!

 

Bullshit?

 

Hardly.

 

The furthest succesful shot I've ever taken a hog with was 18,000 yards ( almost 10 1/4 miles).

 

The shot would normally have been routine but it was hailing the size of softballs so I had to wait until I had a clear shot between them.

 

I used a hi-point carbine with a custom barrel in .50 x .17 HMR which is my own personal wildcat cartridge consisting of a .17 HMR rimfire necked up to hold a .50 BMG 780 grain nose, velocities are in the low teens. I scoped it with a wal-mart red dot scope that comes free on their airsoft guns.

 

Normally The 12 moa red dot would cover a hog at those ranges but at an acerage velocity of 12 fps I have to use quite a lot of hold over allowing me to sight in under the dot. For this shot I elevated just over 91 degrees, aiming the gun slighty behind me, counting on wind to carry it back to target.

 

I spotted the 4,000 pound hog munching on a Geo Metro and using my 91 degree hold I let loose a round with a whistle and a pop. A few seconds later when I was sure the round had cleared my muzzle I packed up and went home to wait for the round to hit.

 

three days later I drove to the Hog's location just in time to see my round strike. It blew a 3 foot hole in the hog killing it instantly. I haven't calculated the muzzle energy of my wildcat round but I geusstimate it at around 2 kilotons.

 

By my inclusion of the hard ballistic facts and unquestionable details I have proven that a 2,000 round shot on a hog is something easily accomplished, my hound dog even occasionally makes shots on hogs at such minscule ranges.

 

I call BS on this one... not even a feral hog would chew on a Geo Metro...

 

It was the barbecue flavored Geo Metro they made between Feb 29th and 31st back in 1991

[MD_Willington 11]

Meanwhile in states that are a bit more sane...

My old neighbor was swat, he liked my Saiga .223, thought it was pretty cool.

Took my eldest shooting at a friends house down a county road, son was shooting my Saiga from the hip, we saw the local deputy drive by, he looked over and gave us a grin and a big thumbs up...

[Ironbar 1]

Dear mah,

 

Interesting story. One word of advice: You're never going to work for either Red Jacket or gunsmith in the military until you're able to write in a clear, concise, and logical manner. Right now, your spelling and grammar are atrocious. You really need to work on this if your goal is to do virtually anything besides work in fast food or telemarketing.

[vamp116@q.com 1]

No disrespect towards anyone including the OP that has posted on this thread. Maybe I am wrong but I was always taught to never shoot at the ground or trees in case of ricochet. If I am wrong then please excuse me. If I am right then why am I the first one to say it. However, I highly doubt a DEC LEO really said that the officers "don't know shit" about anything to a person he only knows over a phone call. Whether you want this advice or not, educate yourself about the use of firearms before you even think of touching one again. I would hate to see you hurt yourself or others because of negligence. Then be a real friend and educate them. We have all been young and have done stupid things. Just try to learn from them and move on.

[chevyman097 2,579]

[voomie 0]

You got lucky in this one. As the saying goes, ignorance of the law is not an excuse for violating it. Know the laws and regulations of where you are going. In my opinion, bumpfiring is a little reckless because anyone that I have seen do it normally doesnt have good control of their rifle. Remember there is a lawyer attached to every shot fired and you better hope it does not hit anyone.

[rnemhrd 165]

The one part of the story I do believe it the local cops having no fucking clue what a NYS WMA is. When I was 18 a group of us hunting small game in the Clay marsh WMA were given a bunch of shit and threatened to be locked up by a Town of Clay cop. Said we were breaking the law.(I had talked to DEC officers in the parking area there before walking out). He fefused to get us a DEC officer to explain the laws. He wouldn't read my small game manual(the one you get with your licence) and would shout me down every time I explained what we were doing. Finaly I told him to cuff me and take me to the station or give me my gun so I could go. I also informed him of hunter harassment laws and how it may be bad for him to be charged for it. DEC likes to slap local cops around when the hunter is in the right. Trust me. After a radio call he was nice as pie. As a kid that was informed it pissed him off badly. A home owner called us in because they hate hunters in there. NY does suck. NYDEC officers can be a pain sometimes but are on our side. I also do know of a Onondage county sherriff that was warned and told he would be aressted for hunter harassnent. As for the rest of the OPs story.You gave them reason to think you may have had a automatic weapon.

Edited March 12, 2012 by rnemhrd

[siminov 164]

This was a good read . I'm in NY state and I'm sorry you had a bad experience here, it's important to follow the rules. I gotta say though for all the negative things said I've never seen it or been given a hard time. I had a neighbor to our range calling the police a few years back. The troopers came 3 times and were cool and polite every time, and we were toting ak's and ar's. When I was 18 I used to cruise around in my truck with an sks with a ramline stock and a 30rd mag in the window rack. I had a lead foot and got pulled over alot but never had a gun pointed at me or an attitude from the cop about it, at most they'd just ask what it was. There's another part of new york that's separated from the rest of the state by a six-million acre park and maybe that makes a difference, I'm 180 miles north of albany and don't even think of NYC. I know some of the laws suck but it's no where near as bad as people make it out to be. I lived in FL for a few years and it wasn't bad enough to keep me from moving back.

 

Here's my dirty pile back from the range yesterday. I even bumpfired a mag for buddy and no swat showed up to ruin my day.

 

[dvdcrr 0]

I think the response was inappropriate. A parks officer or local unit should have been the only response not SWAT. And the hunters should not have been met with weapons at the ready. There was no reasonable cause to believe the shooters were a public threat or that a felony was in progress. I think an apology is in order and a change in procedure on behalf of the authorities in the area. Lastly you and your other deaf friends need to address the fact that you are putting yourselves into situations where men with guns may be trying to communicate with you before you can see them. Maybe you need to bring gun socks to the field and immediately sock up after shooting so that you will not be perceived as a threat by those that may accidentally perceive that you are intentionally failing to respond.

[dvdcrr 0]

and you need to join the NRA and write them and your congressman a full account of this situation.

[jimmy21 18]

I think the response was inappropriate. A parks officer or local unit should have been the only response not SWAT. And the hunters should not have been met with weapons at the ready. There was no reasonable cause to believe the shooters were a public threat or that a felony was in progress. I think an apology is in order and a change in procedure on behalf of the authorities in the area. Lastly you and your other deaf friends need to address the fact that you are putting yourselves into situations where men with guns may be trying to communicate with you before you can see them. Maybe you need to bring gun socks to the field and immediately sock up after shooting so that you will not be perceived as a threat by those that may accidentally perceive that you are intentionally failing to respond.

 

i don't know. If i was a park ranger and heard full auto gun fire in a place that isn't supposed to have anything but shotguns, i think i would call in the swat team as well. The only mistake i see made on the law enforcements side was not calling an interpreter

[preparehandbook 326]

I think the response was inappropriate. A parks officer or local unit should have been the only response not SWAT. And the hunters should not have been met with weapons at the ready. There was no reasonable cause to believe the shooters were a public threat or that a felony was in progress. I think an apology is in order and a change in procedure on behalf of the authorities in the area. Lastly you and your other deaf friends need to address the fact that you are putting yourselves into situations where men with guns may be trying to communicate with you before you can see them. Maybe you need to bring gun socks to the field and immediately sock up after shooting so that you will not be perceived as a threat by those that may accidentally perceive that you are intentionally failing to respond.

 

i don't know. If i was a park ranger and heard full auto gun fire in a place that isn't supposed to have anything but shotguns, i think i would call in the swat team as well. The only mistake i see made on the law enforcements side was not calling an interpreter

 

You have a point, but also they should consider the real lilelyhood of a crime.

 

How many times in the US has full auto fire off in the woods been crime related?

 

I'd guess it's somewhere between winning the lottery and seeing a unicorn.

[gunfun 3,931]

Many police agencies get their funding based on grants that track how many times they are called out or deployed. In rural areas this can create an incentive to call out swat or bomb squads for little reason, so that they can say they used them 10 times or whatever, during the next budget cycle.

 

In a town I have lived in in AK, called Dillingham, the city put up money to basically time-share Anchorage's swat team and bomb squad. About 2 weeks pass after confirming the contract.The big hospital was shipping in some new equipment by air freight worth over $400k. Idiot girl at the baggage check heard the battery alarm beeping on the medical equipment. Note, not only was it labeled to the effect that it would beep until it was plugged in with the hospital, but the manufacturer and the hospital had specifically called all the airline management to make sure they understood this. The mayor and police chief decided to call in the bomb-squad they had just contracted for anyway, so they had to be flown in from anchorage and a whole Dash 8 full of people and perishable freight had to wait .... They call the hospital, which reiterates that the beeping is fine. A local radio station broad casts this whole thing from stage 1, with updated information from all the relevant parties while the whole thing is going on. The punchline?--- Well, since we called in the bomb squad it would be a shame to waste the trip. They blew the medical equipment up on the runway. The city agencies declined to offer comment for "security reasons."

[shootsmuch 9]

Lets see, your hunting on state land for yotes during yote season where their might be other hunters also hunting for yotes, you quickly get bored and start shooting at trees and even worse bump firing. If you did that during deer season in NY it wouldnt be the cops that you would have to worry about.

[zak- 0]

#1 WMA's in every state are designated with rules on what weapons you can use. Common sense says you should pick up some reading material on the WMA you are going hunting at.

 

#2 Why would you go hunting out in the woods if you're hard at hearing and all your friends are deaf? Why not bring a person with full hearing to assist you? You're out in the middle of no-where, say somebody sneaks up on you? Especially when you're doing stupid shit like stump shooting on public hunting land, that is a great way to get shot.

 

#3 You bump fired and stump shot on public land, you asked for what you recieved. If you want to do shit like that go to a gun range. Not where other people can hear you, and you can mess someone else's hunting up.

[themadhatter196 18]

I GO TO RIT TOO! I also agree that you were wrong in the fact that you were using rifles (illegal to use rifles in monroe county) and also you were technically target shooting by shooting at the ground. They were right to call in swat and they followed procedure almost perfectly but yes they should have allowed an interpreter to come and help communicate between the cops. This is the reason I do not go hunting with my Saiga in any area in NY unless it is private land of a person I know.