The Behemoth

[datrowl 111]

OK, Credit where Credit is due.... I STOLE the idea from Mr. Scratchy ( with his permission LOL )

 

I LOVED his S12.... and decided to replicate it at least in part.... this is how we ended up.

 

Its not 100% yet, I need longer bolts for the bottom of the wood handguards, so, 4 more bolts to go... and I have a Molot Break comeing, but to be honest, i love the looks of this so much as is, I may not end up useing it ( on this gun )

 

It started out at 9am as a brand new IZ109 and a bunch of parts I'd pre collected, Had to strip the wood, fit it, and refinish it, while waiting on coats of stain and clearcoat to dry I'd work the conversion.. took me about 8 hours start to finish ( most of that spent reshapeing the PKM stock... don't ever let ANYONE tell you its an easy task to fit a PKM to a saiga... dear god Mr. Scratchy, My hats off to ya man for being the first )

 

Build breakdown will follow

 

 

[datrowl 111]

Build Breakdown

 

Tromix mod FCG

Tromix bolt on trigger guard

Tak47 autoplug

CSS booster puck

Krebs bolt on front sight

AR duplex crosshair front sight post

Marbels Bullseye rear dovetail sight

Krebs safty

Tromix extended chargeing knob

PKM stock

Custom Fuglystick

Fal wood handguards

Jardnil custom PG

Russian style birdcage flash hider

misc other odds and ends that I don't remember off top of my head atm LOL

 

 

anyway... she's awesome, Thanks again to Mr.Scratchy for the inspiration....

 

 

ETA.... dear lord I forgot the hole plugs too... LOL don't look to close at the pics just yet, I'll gettem in there and get some better pics up soon, lord my camra just sucks

Edited March 10, 2012 by datrowl

[Guns Are Great 140]

Excellent work!

[BpS12 512]

That is cool.

[sass_kevin 2]

sexual

[Mr. Scratch 91]

Awesome build Datrowl; Prof. Zhirinovsky sends his best regards. He would have sent his best cognac, but his throat gets awfully parched in Zanzibar this time of year, and he simply had none to spare. Let's get some pics of that beast out in the sunlight so we can see the finish a little better! We want some full-blown gun porn here.

 

I see you used the narrow Fuglystick as a base for the HG. How'd that work out?

Edited March 10, 2012 by Mr. Scratch

[dayofruin 425]

Love that wood look!

[G O B 3,516]

Love that stock!

[datrowl 111]

Have gotten a question of the wood refinishing... will detail process...

 

 

Interwebz search " Transtint Bright Red wood dye " order 2oz bottle

Go to Lowe's get 1 quart Denatured Alcohol and Zeiss Bullseye Shellac ( clear dewaxed not the amber )

 

Add 1oz dye to denatured alcohol in glass mason jar and shake like mad...

add 1 oz dye to shellac can... shake like mad

 

mop alcohol/dye mix onto wood ( should dry almost instantly.... well, within 3 to 5 minuts or so )

add 2 coats of the alcohol/dye mix

 

map on Shellac/dye mix ( should be tacky dry in 30 minuts which is enough for another coat )

add 3 coats Shellac/dye mix

 

let sit 1 hour....install on gun

 

came out to be the closest remake of a true russian red i've ever seen, stupid easy to do... and FAST

 

I know the transtint bright red dye will look too bright in the interwebz....its not, they have a darker red.. trust me, the darker red would be WAY WAY too dark after a few coats.

 

 

Never seen anyone else ever talk about the wood dyes use over a stain or other methods... figured others might be interested..... its almost like the Rit dye trick without haveing to spend a full day breaking it down and remixing it... much easier... just squirt and go

[Bigchris 31]

More pics please... And like Someone else asked, how did the handguard/ fuglystick work out for u?

[datrowl 111]

MrScratchy used the CSS tube guard on his, and was a bit concerned about the connection point not being reinforced... The Fugly has a MUCH better connection point brace, as well as being a heavier constructed overall piece, it'll last a lifetime or three... the issues I ran into with the Fugly is also why its not finished yet, the brace rail that runs along the bottom of the Fugly is right exactly where the holes need to be to attach the wood, I had to set the wood slabs in place, mark the screw placement with an awl, and drill holes for the bolts to run thru... holes need to drill thru not just the outer guard itself, but also the internal reinforcement block. this means you'll need MUCH longer screws on the bottom than you do on the top.. something I didn't take into account when I bought the hardware for it. If you line it up right you can get the holes drilled without actually haveing to clip a support rail... its tricky and has a very small margin for error... but doable with a good sharp drill bit

 

Your also going to want very long thin nose pliers to assist in getting the retaining nuts started on the back.. longer and thinner than most needlenose....i ended up haveing to use chopsticks LOL thank god I eat enough chinese to be proficient

 

 

The actual fitting of the PKM stock was the hardest part... I used a set of calipers to measure the width of the tang and marked the channel needed to be cut, used a dremil with a reinforced cut off blade to make top side cuts down thru the metal pins to sheer them and lay out the shape of the channel.... switched to an end mill bit to hollow out the channel working my way back to the cut off pin then poping it out with a screwdriver....once I had that done, all i had to do was make it fit the internal of the saiga.. switched to a sanding drum, taped off the depth I needed and went to work beveling the whole thing down to fit.... once it fits inside... snugly.... you need to cut your L shaped step down inside the rear trunion into the face of the wood stock so it seats back deep enough....

 

this is where i feked up... the front of these PKM stocks have a recessed area kinda like a milled AK stock... this creates a thinner hollow area near the front of the stock... CUT THIS PART FLUSH PRIOR TO DOING ANYTHING ELSE..... if you don't, you'll find you have a stock that should fit, but nothing inside for the screws to bite into.... so after i had mine basicly done... I had to cut 1/2 inch off the front and start the process all over again moveing all the other cut outs and beveled sanding back another half inch .....pain in the ass....

 

 

the whole thing once done is solid, sturdy, hell if i ever ran out of ammo I could beat someone to death with it... I love it, but that dosen't change the fact that it was indeed a pain in the ass LOL

 

 

ETA: its been raining here all day, when I get some sunshine I'll take it out and get better pics of everything, wood finish, the bullseye/duplex sight setup which i love... etc etc...

Edited March 10, 2012 by datrowl

[Mr. Scratch 91]

MrScratchy used the CSS tube guard on his, and was a bit concerned about the connection point not being reinforced... The Fugly has a MUCH better connection point brace, as well as being a heavier constructed overall piece, it'll last a lifetime or three... the issues I ran into with the Fugly is also why its not finished yet, the brace rail that runs along the bottom of the Fugly is right exactly where the holes need to be to attach the wood, I had to set the wood slabs in place, mark the screw placement with an awl, and drill holes for the bolts to run thru... holes need to drill thru not just the outer guard itself, but also the internal reinforcement block. this means you'll need MUCH longer screws on the bottom than you do on the top.. something I didn't take into account when I bought the hardware for it. If you line it up right you can get the holes drilled without actually haveing to clip a support rail... its tricky and has a very small margin for error... but doable with a good sharp drill bit

 

When it comes time for better pics, can you also include a shot of this brace rail and the way the screws interact with it? I've never seen a Fuglystick in the flesh, and would like to have a clear picture in my head of what I've got to do if/when I decide to do another one of these using the Fuglystick. The connection point sounds like it is much superior to the CSS version I'm currently using, which is already starting to deform a little with only light use.

 

Also, if you don't mind, a pic of it set up with the Molot Brake when it comes in. I've been losing sleep over the fact that I don't have on of those, and am just wondering how it would go.

 

 

The actual fitting of the PKM stock was the hardest part... I used a set of calipers to measure the width of the tang and marked the channel needed to be cut, used a dremil with a reinforced cut off blade to make top side cuts down thru the metal pins to sheer them and lay out the shape of the channel.... switched to an end mill bit to hollow out the channel working my way back to the cut off pin then poping it out with a screwdriver....once I had that done, all i had to do was make it fit the internal of the saiga.. switched to a sanding drum, taped off the depth I needed and went to work beveling the whole thing down to fit.... once it fits inside... snugly.... you need to cut your L shaped step down inside the rear trunion into the face of the wood stock so it seats back deep enough....

 

The steel wrist pins in the PK stock are the big challenge here. I considered going the way you did, and also using a diamond grinder bit to grind them down before cutting. In the end I ended up killing two birds with one stone by just slapping the stock to a jig and sanding the whole thing to shape with the belt sander, pins and all, until I got the right shape. I wasn't terribly happy with the finish of the insert section of the stock, but it fits tight and the butchery isn't visible to anyone who doesn't take it completely apart.

 

 

this is where i feked up... the front of these PKM stocks have a recessed area kinda like a milled AK stock... this creates a thinner hollow area near the front of the stock... CUT THIS PART FLUSH PRIOR TO DOING ANYTHING ELSE..... if you don't, you'll find you have a stock that should fit, but nothing inside for the screws to bite into.... so after i had mine basicly done... I had to cut 1/2 inch off the front and start the process all over again moveing all the other cut outs and beveled sanding back another half inch .....pain in the ass....

 

The full PK stock is a way too long anyway, you won't miss that 1/2 inch. I think I trimmed some length off mine as well.

 

This hollow area you're talking about, is this the slot recessed for the receiver tang? I ended up dremelling out a new tang slot on the top for the Saiga tang to fit into, and then basing the vertical measurements for the insert shaping on this new level that I'd channeled out. Pics below of the new tang slot, and also the bottom of the PK stock with the unused original slot so people can see where this ought to fit.

 

 

 

the whole thing once done is solid, sturdy, hell if i ever ran out of ammo I could beat someone to death with it...

 

It does make for quite a monster in terms of heft. Like I said in my original posting of this design, when you're carrying it around you get the feeling you're packing a squad-level weapon. It feels like you could lay down suppressive fire on the whole Bolivian Army or something. Looks wise though, as I think you mentioned in a previous message, it more closely resembles something from earlier time, when wood and sturdiness was at a premium. An elegant weapon for a more civilized age, as Obi Wan would put it.

Edited March 10, 2012 by Mr. Scratch

[datrowl 111]

To better explaine the part I had to cut off flush, I'm talking about the actual reciever end of the stock itself, the portion that goes into the metal box frame of the reciever, If you flip the stock around so that the metal buttplate is directly away from you, you should then be looking into the 1/2 hollow, at least thats how mine came.

 

I started off with this area intact and made my trunion steps into it extending only slightly into the full woodstock portion... I had questions about how strong this would have been anyway as instead of a solid block of wood slideing in under the rear trunion you had basicly a wooden U ......it wasent till i did final fitting that I realised that U shaped cut out would perfectly cup the tang screws and allow then nothing to grip, so I pulled the stock back off, used a thin bladed copeing saw to trim that half inch off flush then started the refitting process with what I had left starting at the solid area of the front of the stock working back.

 

 

As far as the Fugly goes, I'll try and get pics of its internals and the attachment method needed to use it when I get the longer bolts and get it back off the gun to finish it up...but imagine if you can takeing a 1 inch wide ruler and laying it into a 2 inch piece of pvc pipe and you'll be getting close... this " ruler " is 1/4 inch thick barstock and serves as the rear tang of the handguard, the point that slides into the handguard retaining area on the reciever in the front.... it runs 3/4 of the way along the Fugly and ends just past the Gas Block where the Fugly itself is recessed and the screw to retain the front of the guard goes thru the bar stock and provides a solid attachment point to the barrel.

 

kinda get the idea?.... ok now to complicate things just a bit... lets assume Jay at Fuglystick is a competant crafter ( and he damn sure is ) and knows weight is at a premium so in order to minimise front loaded weight the center of the bar stock insert is milled out leaveing you with a solid end area that attaches to the reciever, 2 rails that run the length of the stock to the gas block, then a solid area again where the gas block attaches via screw.

 

the issue is those rails can be cut drilling thru for the bottom bolt holes...leaveing you a free floating rod attached to nothing inside other than the weldes on the very ends near the reciever and gas block...

 

Thankfully the fix is easy... most of Jays pieces are custom jobs to one degree to another, and he no longer markets the smaller tubes for the 12 unless specifically requested.... while your ordering the 2 inch tube, make sure to mention you don't want the retaining brace milled for weight.... this will add maby 3 ozs to the guard and eliminate the possability to cut one of the brace bars running the internal length.... punching a hole in the full barstock is a non issue, clipping a milled rail may be.......

 

is that followable at all?.... sorry, i get to typeing and sometimes what I end up with isn't at all what I had in my head at the start LOL

[jaymce 7]

Looks like you have screws placed and holes drilled all the way through then nuts installed. Might have been easier to place your holes in the wood then using the correct drill for the tap just drill through the outer guard and tap the tube part of the guard thus eliminating the need for the nuts on the inside or the necessity to drill through the sides of the mount.

[gpqueen 545]

Nice work on your build Datrowl,

We designed our forearm to be tough and to be the lightest weight forearm on the market.

If you ever have a problem with it deforming I would gladly replace it for you.

We have sold several thousand of them and have yet to hear about deforming from anyone that actually owns one, but it could happen with anything.

All the plastic forearms available do not deform and they do not need reinforcement points.

[Mr. Scratch 91]

To better explaine the part I had to cut off flush, I'm talking about the actual reciever end of the stock itself, the portion that goes into the metal box frame of the reciever, If you flip the stock around so that the metal buttplate is directly away from you, you should then be looking into the 1/2 hollow, at least thats how mine came.

 

I started off with this area intact and made my trunion steps into it extending only slightly into the full woodstock portion... I had questions about how strong this would have been anyway as instead of a solid block of wood slideing in under the rear trunion you had basicly a wooden U ......it wasent till i did final fitting that I realised that U shaped cut out would perfectly cup the tang screws and allow then nothing to grip, so I pulled the stock back off, used a thin bladed copeing saw to trim that half inch off flush then started the refitting process with what I had left starting at the solid area of the front of the stock working back.

 

 

Ah, yes. I forgot about that bit. I just measured mine forward of the U, and notched the base to fit the PG nut through (pic below). But you're right; the hollow U-shape can just as well be cut off before you start shaping the insert. It doesn't add anything structural to the stock.

 

[Mr. Scratch 91]

Nice work on your build Datrowl,

We designed our forearm to be tough and to be the lightest weight forearm on the market.

If you ever have a problem with it deforming I would gladly replace it for you.

We have sold several thousand of them and have yet to hear about deforming from anyone that actually owns one, but it could happen with anything.

All the plastic forearms available do not deform and they do not need reinforcement points.

 

In regard to my CSS forearm, I think it will be okay in the long run. I think the problem arose with the movement of the washers that are used as spacers, which I seem to recall allowed the hole to "egg" slightly after a few hundred rounds due to pressure and movement against the screw that holds it to the barrel (it's been awhile since I checked it so I don't recall how much). I've since JB Welded the washers into place to cut down on any movement and tightened the forearms down much harder than I had done previously. I haven't taken it out shooting since then, but hopefully it'll be fine.

Edited March 10, 2012 by Mr. Scratch

[datrowl 111]

Jaymce, I didnt't have a set of taps handy, I see what your saying and you might be right, the Fal wood is on the origional Fal handguard held on only with screws that come thru from the backside and they seem to work well enough... to be honest I could probably STILL do that by iseing the existing holes I have now and a corse threaded screw that will hold tight...I had somehow envisioned it all lineing up perfectly with the preexisting holes on the guard ( lol right? ) that would eliminate the need to run the longer bolts which I was concerned with anyway.... I'll fiddle with it and come up with a better solution.

 

Greg Boss, wasen't meaning to talk bad about your guard man, I deal with you almost exclusively where I can for a reason, its just for this paticular modification and the added weight of the wood potentially adding extra force under recoil, we were after something built like a tank...your guards are great lightweight alternitives for many people, and I'm sure its a quality product, to be honest I personally don't own one... but knew after haveing Jay make my custom Fugly for The Beast I'd use one of his guards on this one too... its just a personal preferance thing and I didn't mean to slight your product in any way... just for this specific build, I think the Fugly was a better option, though, perhaps a bit more involved to get working.

[yooper14.5 84]

this is the mounting bracket inside my fuglystick. it is made of the smaller diameter tubing. the behemoth looks great BTW.

Edited March 11, 2012 by yooper14.5

[Mr. Scratch 91]

Thankfully the fix is easy... most of Jays pieces are custom jobs to one degree to another, and he no longer markets the smaller tubes for the 12 unless specifically requested.... while your ordering the 2 inch tube, make sure to mention you don't want the retaining brace milled for weight.... this will add maby 3 ozs to the guard and eliminate the possability to cut one of the brace bars running the internal length.... punching a hole in the full barstock is a non issue, clipping a milled rail may be.......

 

is that followable at all?.... sorry, i get to typeing and sometimes what I end up with isn't at all what I had in my head at the start LOL

 

Okay, looking at Yooper's pics, I think I see what you mean. Looks to me like the sections milled out of the bar not only lighten the Fugly, but also allow a user to fit a nut into the slot to allow people to add accessories (pistol grips, lights, etc), which they wouldn't be able to access without there being a hole there. Not that that would be of any use if you were just going to slap a wooden HG over the top anyway.

 

I wonder if Jay has any specialized solutions for this other than leaving the bar solid? If someone is looking at doing this, it might be worthwhile to send the actual FAL HG to Jay for fitting and drilling, and he could add additional reinforcement welds around where the wooden HG's screwhole passes through the bar, to give that spot some added strength. Just a thought.

Edited March 11, 2012 by Mr. Scratch

[MT Predator 2,294]

That thing is pure sex datrowl!

[datrowl 111]

Thanks MT, if nothing else, it could be said I'll never own a boreing firearm LOL

[Jerico 0]

I had seen Mr. Scratch's build and loved the story that went with it. Seeing your build makes me want to get another S12 and make a copy of my own. Nice work guys!