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Putting on Muzzle brake


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Ok, so my conversion is just about done. I just ordered a muzzle brake, and now I just have to put it on. I was thinking about threading it myself as I like the idea of trying something new, however I have some questions.

 

BTW I just read this: http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/13786-barrel-threading-tutorial/

 

My question is when I cut off the barrel sleeve and start threading I read that I am not supposed to cut too far back to the FSB. Now my muzzle brake is 24mm so I will need an thread adapter anyway and I know to cut it 14x1.

 

I want my muzzle brake to be flush agianst the FSB, I dont want there to be a little space in between the brake and the FSB. Can I do this without buying a new FSB? Im concerned about not aligning my FSB up straight and having crooked sights.

 

Or is it just cheaper and easier to buy a FSB with the threads already attached? I would prefer to thread it myself for experience.

 

Thanks for your advice!

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http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/73037-muzzle-brake-install-worth-it/

 

Check out the link. I have a pic of both side by side for reference. If you have a 24mm break already you might want to go with a Bulgy FSB. Getting it straight is not that hard. If you want more options with breaks, thread 14x1.

 

The parts to thread the barrel can run around $75. FSB around $55. Mullet Man has FBS & Zig Zag '74 break w/ pins for $75 in the WTS area in here.

 

 

Good luck.

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Easiest route is cutting or pressing the existing FSB off and pressing on a bulgy FSB that has 24mm threads. Drill 3mm pin holes, ream, pin. Hands down easiest to do. When pressing(or sledge hammering or something else equally as funny/crazy) put a 7.62x39mm bore sight in the barrel. Have the front sight drum dead center of the front sight tower. Push the FSB barely(just by hand or with a rubber mallet) on the barrel. Alight the front sight and rear sight so the point of aim is the same as wherever the bore sight laser is pointing.

Then press all the way, drill, ream, pin.

 

Now if you want some experience and want to take advantage of your rifle being a 5.45 then thread for 1/2x28. Much better flash hider, brake, and comp choices in 5.56. Threading will be the same proceedure you just have to insert an initial step of turning down the barrel where you want to thread. Now ideally this whole task would be accomplished by pressing out the barrel assembly, pressing everything off the barrel, then turning down that portion of barrel in a lathe and also threading in a lathe.

Fully understand not everyone here wants to do that. So the short cut way is us a muzzle cutter. Luckily Dinzag has the tool setup: http://www.dinzagarms.com/tools/mcp.html

Going the muzzle cutter, tat, die route will get the job done. Just means the threads won't be perfectly in line with the axis of the barrel. So if you had concentric rifling then this would be what prevents you from putting a suppressor on the barrel. Of course Saigas don't so... little to no harm and definitely no foul.

 

As for having to have that little space between the muzzle attachment and the FSB you can fix that by moving the front sight block forward. Press off the FSB and cut the sleeve off. Press the FSB back onto the barrel and pin it so the now flush face of the front sight block is ≈ 0.5" from the front of the muzzle.

Did that exact process on this setup:24ccp78.jpg

You can screw the muzzle attachment flush against the FSB. Theres no detent pin in the FSB though. So either red loctite + really torque it down or insteall a detent pin and spring into the Saiga FSB. Which can be a fun little project in itself.

 

 

So easy route = Bulgy 24mm FSB

Project route = everything else above...

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Absolutely! That is what makes these guns awesome! Not only does it make the gun look sweet, it also will help me put more rounds on target. The muzzle brake is one of my favorite parts of the gun!

 

Also one more question, I got my muzzle brake and I have decided that I am just going to get a FSB, it there a certain brand of paint that I should get to paint my brake and the FSB, so that it will match a little better with the rest of my gun?

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  • 2 months later...

If you look at the muzzle end "real close"......you will see two styles of shrouds. One style will wrap tightly around the barrel with no gap at all

 

However....sometimes, the other style shows up where there is the tiniest of gap all the way around, and with a loupe or magnifying glass, you may be able to see the "Start" of a thread that quickly disappears towards the receiver-end of the barrel ( typically on some late 09 build 7.62x39's).......

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I went the route of cutting the shroud and then threading the barrel to 14mm X 1mm, LH. I then put one of the adapters on with red loc-tite. The rifle can take the typical RH AK74 brakes, but would back off occasionally during rapid fire and cause keyhole'ing.

 

So I got a full day workout taking adapter off (it was extremely tough from loc-tite!) and drill/tapped the adapter to accept a set screw to hold the brake in place. I used the little notched on the base of the brake to fit the set screw. For some reason I thought this method to be easier (and sturdier) than cutting off the whole sight block and replacing it with a new one. This is completely a round about way to accept a traditional AK74 muzzle brake, but I enjoy all the manipulations I successfully accomplished! Whew!

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For others.... red Loktite requires heat to remove.

 

As to setscrews...I would suggest drilling a shallow, blind hole into the barrel surface, for the set screw to "bury-into". If you are only depending upon the pointy-tip of the set screw to hold, even with blue Loktite ( no heat required to remove)...you may still see it loosening. The Izhmash factory uses "dimples" to set the FSB in-place, replacing the earlier method of pins. These dimples a pressed into similar, drilled holes in the barrel.

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IMG_20120623_121832.jpg

 

IMG_20120623_121849.jpg

 

IMG_20120623_121929.jpg

 

These are the pictures of what I tried to explain I did. The adapter is the device that is holding my brake with the set screw (the base of the screw is blunt and not pointed). So far this works great... until I lose the screw! But they are sold in packs of 2 at Home Depot for like $2.

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  • 2 weeks later...

It seems I can't go back to edit my previous post....

 

My apologies....I misunderstood what you did.

 

OK....the adaptor now is drilled and tapped to accept a radially-placed set screw....but this is not accurately called a "set" screw....more like a recessed-head socket screw with a normal squared-off end..so that go me confused with my previous answer. This socket-screw is threaded and it is the mating thread into the adaptor that keeps it all together. It doesn't use a "set-screw" principle to attach.

 

I would still blind-hole the adaptor with its own flush mounted radial screw ( plus Loktite)...and then use blue locktite on your radial screw that holds the brake in-place.

 

Nice idea to use a radial screw to hold the brake in place instead of the longitudinal plunger of a military style FSB !!

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Yeah this deal keeps the muzzle brake on there pretty well. I just started with threading the barrel as my option to put a muzzle device on and did not look back. It basically led me to these antics, but none-the-less, I think I came up with a suitable alternative that allows me to have a myriad of muzzle devices with different thread patterns fit to my rifle.

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I think I can do something similar....but I live in a "ban" state that does not allow threaded barrels ( strict interpretation of the law). That said, I believe it can be legal to have a slip-on adaptor ( over a non-threaded, bare barrel)...the adaptor having an external thread that accepts a muzzle brake. I am thinking of radially drilling thru the adaptor to a drilled-tapped blind hole in the side of the barrel. This keeps the "slip-on" adaptor on the barel. The screw-on brake then screws-on the adaptor...and I can use another screw (like you did) to capture the little notch on the brake.... to prevent unwanted loosening or rotation. Good idea.

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Would ban states allow a flash hider or comp that slips onto the FSB and is then welded to the FSB?

 

If so why not bore out the inside of the threaded portion of a comp like the battlecomp so the ID is right at the OD of the sleeve of the stock Saiga FSB(after removing the finish and polishing up the sleeve of course)? Maybe 0.001" larger so you have to pound it on. this would take more tools than most have. Then mig or braze it together.

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Well.... a coupla things....

 

1.) In my ban state ( NY)....FH are illegal, MB's are not.

2.) Guys typically weld....or silver-solder...a screw-on MB, if the barrel is threaded,to comply with law. Apparently once the attachment is "permanent", whether or not the barrel is "threaded" is now moot...and considered legal in my state.

3.) I don't want to go so far as to permanently attach the MB...maybe I wasn't clear on that point in this thread. Whether I end-up welding the MB to the barrel, or welding (/soldering) it to the FSB....in either case it is not readily removable. Would like it to be removable for cleaning or to change sometime later to another MB design.

4.) Yeah....that's the idea....bore out the threaded ID of the Brake ( or better yet....the ID of the *adaptor*), and use this as a "socket-fit" female connection over the barrel. It can be pinned or set-screwed in-place. My thinking about first removing the barrel shroud in front of the FSB is this---> it then exposes the OD of the barrel, which I *think* will be dimensionally more "circular" and "centered-to-bore"....than the rough-looking sleeve-cover may be. The sleeve cover looks rough, and may not "center" the adaptor properly to the bore centerline. Also don't know how "soft" the sleeve metal is compared to a barrel. Therefore...thinking to remove the sleeve first ahead of the FSB to expose a finely-machined and hard OD barrel ( that now will slip inside the adaptor that has it's ID threads machined-out to afford a tight fit).

Edited by IPSC45
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Ah.... "circumvent"....no !......

 

Meeting the letter of the law?.....ahh....yes !

 

( Threaded barrels that can allow installation of flash hiders is illegal......that's what it says). That means even a barrel that is threaded in a NON STANDARD pitch/thread ( that NO flash hider in known existence uses)...is OK. Same with adding a removable muzzle brake WITHOUT any threads at all. Or using a FSB with a thread and using a bare barrel...all of these should be legal in a strict view of the legal langauge. If they wanted to say "permanently attached" they could have useds these 2 words as being essential in the legal language.

 

Guys in my state simply weld or silver-solder on permanently...as any weld or solder OVER BARREL THREADS makes the pre-existing threads null and void.....because the install is considered permanent and the existence of threads underneath wouldn't matter. I don't have that issue with a bare (non threaded) barrel.

Edited by IPSC45
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