we need a tutorial to fit bulgarian circle 10

[thebobrusso 27]

just like the topic says it would be nice if someone did this with pictures to help us out.

[grimm100 13]

Good idea! Already fit all mine. However, if someone want to send me a fresh one I would be glad to document completely.

[uao85 0]

What about the other way around? As in fitting the rifle to the mag?

 

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_4_80/141765_Trunnion_ears_on__223_saiga_rifles___Modded_to_fit_Bulgy_circle_10_5_56_mags_.html

[mancat 2,368]

Same issue with Polish Beryl mags. IMO I would still rather modify the mag than the rifle. If Izhmash machined the .223 trunnions with more material on the locking lugs than others, then I'm going to assume that there was a reason why, and it may have to do with handling additional pressure from hotter 5.56 NATO loads.

 

Calling the locking lugs "trunnion ears" suggests that the poster does not know what he's talking about, and therefore I am inclined not to trust his judgement regarding firearms modification.

 

Filing the small feed lip area of the mag that slips under the trunnion will take you about 10 mins max per mag. It will still fit fine in other rifles, since this is not where retention pressure is applied when the mag is latched in.

 

edit: sorry if I'm going against all those who have installed AR mag adapters, but personally I'm not comfortable modifying locking lugs even if everything works well afterwards. If you have to remove a serious amount of material, you ARE weakening the lugs.

Edited March 17, 2012 by mancat

[uao85 0]

Same issue with Polish Beryl mags. IMO I would still rather modify the mag than the rifle. If Izhmash machined the .223 trunnions with more material on the locking lugs than others, then I'm going to assume that there was a reason why, and it may have to do with handling additional pressure from hotter 5.56 NATO loads.

 

Calling the locking lugs "trunnion ears" suggests that the poster does not know what he's talking about, and therefore I am inclined not to trust his judgement regarding firearms modification.

 

Filing the small feed lip area of the mag that slips under the trunnion will take you about 10 mins max per mag. It will still fit fine in other rifles, since this is not where retention pressure is applied when the mag is latched in.

 

edit: sorry if I'm going against all those who have installed AR mag adapters, but personally I'm not comfortable modifying locking lugs even if everything works well afterwards. If you have to remove a serious amount of material, you ARE weakening the lugs.

I thought briefly about modding the mags, but I have other rifles that work just fine with circle 10 mags. I have also already tried a friends "modded" mags(3 of them) which had a little taken off the front of the magwell and a little taken off the rear latch area and yes there was a bit of mag wobble in my bulgarian rifle while it did fit pretty decently in my saiga. The front of the mag isn't the only place that needs trimmed. The rear of the saiga magwell also has a little tab that sticks out a few hundredths of an inch.

 

So I wasn't too inclined to mod 15+ mags that already work very well in two other rifles that I own, and soon to be 4 more pistols to that group.

 

My bad on the grammar. Posted that in my passing one afternoon on my way to clinicals. Trust me, I wouldn't have made the mod if I didn't think it was 100% safe. Thousands upon thousands of Bulgarian 5.56 guns all seem to be doing well without the several hundredths of an inch that were taken off the bottom of the locking lugs and rear of the magwell of the receiver. Currently the gun has over 500 rounds down the tube with no signs of stress or wear and has become my favorite rifle to shoot so I am sure that number will grow fast.

 

EDIT. I also tend to shoot A LOT of 5.56 rounds through my rifles, which gives them a bit more stress than the average person who sticks to steel cased ammo. There is between 450-500 rounds of xm193f, m193, xm855 and m855 with around 50-100 rounds of silver bear. I guess time will tell.

Edited March 17, 2012 by uao85

[TJohn 8]

Same issue with Polish Beryl mags. IMO I would still rather modify the mag than the rifle. If Izhmash machined the .223 trunnions with more material on the locking lugs than others, then I'm going to assume that there was a reason why, and it may have to do with handling additional pressure from hotter 5.56 NATO loads.

 

Calling the locking lugs "trunnion ears" suggests that the poster does not know what he's talking about, and therefore I am inclined not to trust his judgement regarding firearms modification.

 

Filing the small feed lip area of the mag that slips under the trunnion will take you about 10 mins max per mag. It will still fit fine in other rifles, since this is not where retention pressure is applied when the mag is latched in.

 

edit: sorry if I'm going against all those who have installed AR mag adapters, but personally I'm not comfortable modifying locking lugs even if everything works well afterwards. If you have to remove a serious amount of material, you ARE weakening the lugs.

I thought briefly about modding the mags, but I have other rifles that work just fine with circle 10 mags. I have also already tried a friends "modded" mags(3 of them) which had a little taken off the front of the magwell and a little taken off the rear latch area and yes there was a bit of mag wobble in my bulgarian rifle while it did fit pretty decently in my saiga. The front of the mag isn't the only place that needs trimmed. The rear of the saiga magwell also has a little tab that sticks out a few hundredths of an inch.

 

So I wasn't too inclined to mod 15+ mags that already work very well in two other rifles that I own, and soon to be 4 more pistols to that group.

 

My bad on the grammar. Posted that in my passing one afternoon on my way to clinicals. Trust me, I wouldn't have made the mod if I didn't think it was 100% safe. Thousands upon thousands of Bulgarian 5.56 guns all seem to be doing well without the several hundredths of an inch that were taken off the bottom of the locking lugs and rear of the magwell of the receiver. Currently the gun has over 500 rounds down the tube with no signs of stress or wear and has become my favorite rifle to shoot so I am sure that number will grow fast.

 

EDIT. I also tend to shoot A LOT of 5.56 rounds through my rifles, which gives them a bit more stress than the average person who sticks to steel cased ammo. There is between 450-500 rounds of xm193f, m193, xm855 and m855 with around 50-100 rounds of silver bear. I guess time will tell.

 

I slighty dremeled the mag catch and rear of the mag well on my Saiga .223, so I only had to slightly dremel the front top of the front lips on the Circle 10 mags. I did not, and never mess with the rear lug of the mag and they lock up tight with little or no wobble and would probably still work with your other rifles that way. Absolutely no need to mess with the rear lug on the Circle 10 mags if you take a slight bit off the rear of the Saiga .223 magwell. I don't have anything but Saiga rifles so I cant test them on anything else, but they should still work in other rifles. Other than the one time mod to the rifle, I would say this mod doesn't take over a couple minutes each to make the mags fit. Just dremel the bumps on the very front of the mag lips an test fit till it snaps in.

Edited March 17, 2012 by TJohn

[chunga 31]

Here is an observation I have made with respect to Circle 10 mags perhaps worthy of note. I think I have 6 of them, all brand new in package from same vendor. 5 of the mag catches were exactly identical with one having a different factory bevel, and those 5 required only minor dremel work on the front of the mags. I find it best to field strip and try to insert in a well lit area and locate the areas that are preventing insertion. An angled dental pick is helpful.

 

On magazine number 6 (the one with the different bevel on the mag catch) no amount of grinding on the front would have allowed it to fit. Lucky for me, I noticed this before unnecessarily grinding on the front. At that point I ground the catch to mimic the bevel of the other 5 and all was well. The trick is to go slow and look carefully because it is difficult to "undo" too much grinding. I definately prefer altering the mags as opposed to grinding anything on the rifle. If I only had one magazine and 6 rifles maybe I'd think otherwise; but I don't.

[jimdigriz 580]

The problem with making a tutorial is that there is wide variation from rifle to rifle, and even from magazine to magazine. I would say that the main thing is adding a bullet guide and removing the interdiction tab. I had to file the locking tab on the back of the magazine, but in your case you would probably file the mag catch. Unfortunately, I had to file the cross bar a bit too, which in retrospect I'm sorry that I did, especially now that I'm using Weigers almost exclusively.

[mancat 2,368]

uao85, no offense meant by my comment about the "trunnion ears" thing. You do have to understand though that there are a lot of people out there making unsafe modifications to their rifles all the time, so when wrong terminology is thrown out, it makes the whole thing suspect. If you've put hundreds of rounds down it then I'm not too worried.

[corbin 621]

Here's a tutorial:

 

http://dinzagarms.com/downloads/223_mag_options.pdf

[cobravenom39 17]

Same issue with Polish Beryl mags. IMO I would still rather modify the mag than the rifle. If Izhmash machined the .223 trunnions with more material on the locking lugs than others, then I'm going to assume that there was a reason why, and it may have to do with handling additional pressure from hotter 5.56 NATO loads.

 

Calling the locking lugs "trunnion ears" suggests that the poster does not know what he's talking about, and therefore I am inclined not to trust his judgement regarding firearms modification.

 

Filing the small feed lip area of the mag that slips under the trunnion will take you about 10 mins max per mag. It will still fit fine in other rifles, since this is not where retention pressure is applied when the mag is latched in.

 

edit: sorry if I'm going against all those who have installed AR mag adapters, but personally I'm not comfortable modifying locking lugs even if everything works well afterwards. If you have to remove a serious amount of material, you ARE weakening the lugs.

 

In most cases I would agree with you, BUT this is a $250 rifle. Mags are $30 a piece. I'm going to mod my rifle.

[mancat 2,368]

Same issue with Polish Beryl mags. IMO I would still rather modify the mag than the rifle. If Izhmash machined the .223 trunnions with more material on the locking lugs than others, then I'm going to assume that there was a reason why, and it may have to do with handling additional pressure from hotter 5.56 NATO loads.

 

Calling the locking lugs "trunnion ears" suggests that the poster does not know what he's talking about, and therefore I am inclined not to trust his judgement regarding firearms modification.

 

Filing the small feed lip area of the mag that slips under the trunnion will take you about 10 mins max per mag. It will still fit fine in other rifles, since this is not where retention pressure is applied when the mag is latched in.

 

edit: sorry if I'm going against all those who have installed AR mag adapters, but personally I'm not comfortable modifying locking lugs even if everything works well afterwards. If you have to remove a serious amount of material, you ARE weakening the lugs.

 

In most cases I would agree with you, BUT this is a $250 rifle. Mags are $30 a piece. I'm going to mod my rifle.

 

Most of us have more than $250 into our Saigas and would rather have a magazine fail versus the rifle's front trunnion.

[TJohn 8]

Here's a tutorial:

 

http://dinzagarms.co...mag_options.pdf

 

If you scroll down the page "Fig A" shows the only part of the Bulgarian Circl 10's that I mess with after I have filed/dremeled the mag catch and the very rear of the mag well on the .223 rifle.

[TJohn 8]

Here is an observation I have made with respect to Circle 10 mags perhaps worthy of note. I think I have 6 of them, all brand new in package from same vendor. 5 of the mag catches were exactly identical with one having a different factory bevel, and those 5 required only minor dremel work on the front of the mags. I find it best to field strip and try to insert in a well lit area and locate the areas that are preventing insertion. An angled dental pick is helpful.

 

On magazine number 6 (the one with the different bevel on the mag catch) no amount of grinding on the front would have allowed it to fit. Lucky for me, I noticed this before unnecessarily grinding on the front. At that point I ground the catch to mimic the bevel of the other 5 and all was well. The trick is to go slow and look carefully because it is difficult to "undo" too much grinding. I definately prefer altering the mags as opposed to grinding anything on the rifle. If I only had one magazine and 6 rifles maybe I'd think otherwise; but I don't.

 

I have had good luck with the Bulgarian Circle 10 mags in .223 so far (the 20 round clear/smoke looking ones). I have a dozen, six each from two different vendors and the mag catches are fairly uninform with no real differences. I will usually try at least two or three different mags while dremeling/filing the mag catch just due to variances in the mags, because if you just try to fit to one mag, then others mags may not click in properly or be way too loose and affect function.

 

Field stripping the rifle and watching from the open receiver is a good idea as I did do some excessive filing on the rear of a couple of mags before I realized what part of the rifle was binding the mags (I had seen other tutorials on different forums showing that, but it wasnt necessary in my experience.). Fortunately I didn't affect the fit or function of the mags though, they just look a little different now.

 

I know you can occaisionally get an out of spec mag, as I had a surplus 5.45 mag that wouldn't start to go into the magwell on a 5.45 Saiga while a dozen others fit fine, but with respect to the .223 Bulgarian Circle 10's I have seen the quality has been pretty uniform.

Edited March 21, 2012 by TJohn

[cobravenom39 17]

Same issue with Polish Beryl mags. IMO I would still rather modify the mag than the rifle. If Izhmash machined the .223 trunnions with more material on the locking lugs than others, then I'm going to assume that there was a reason why, and it may have to do with handling additional pressure from hotter 5.56 NATO loads.

 

Calling the locking lugs "trunnion ears" suggests that the poster does not know what he's talking about, and therefore I am inclined not to trust his judgement regarding firearms modification.

 

Filing the small feed lip area of the mag that slips under the trunnion will take you about 10 mins max per mag. It will still fit fine in other rifles, since this is not where retention pressure is applied when the mag is latched in.

 

edit: sorry if I'm going against all those who have installed AR mag adapters, but personally I'm not comfortable modifying locking lugs even if everything works well afterwards. If you have to remove a serious amount of material, you ARE weakening the lugs.

 

In most cases I would agree with you, BUT this is a $250 rifle. Mags are $30 a piece. I'm going to mod my rifle.

 

Most of us have more than $250 into our Saigas and would rather have a magazine fail versus the rifle's front trunnion.

 

While I agree with you, It's still a $250 rifle. I have one getting converted to AK102 spec by Chris Butler that's going to cost me $1500.

It doesn't change the fact that I could pull most of that stuff off and it'll be a $250 rifle. I'm having him mod the rifle to take Bulgy mags. Any AK that doesn't accept surplus fully supported/caged mags is a paperweight IMHO.

Edited March 22, 2012 by cobravenom39

[jbanzai 113]

It sounds like most of you guys who fitted the Circle 10 mags did NOT remove the interdiction tab, but just remove material from the mag. Is this the case?

Could anyone post pics of the mags, and where the filing was done?

[TJohn 8]

It sounds like most of you guys who fitted the Circle 10 mags did NOT remove the interdiction tab, but just remove material from the mag. Is this the case?

Could anyone post pics of the mags, and where the filing was done?

 

This shows where I filed my Circle 10 mags, see figure A in the link listed.

 

Here's a tutorial:

 

http://dinzagarms.co...mag_options.pdf

 

If you scroll down the page "Fig A" shows the only part of the Bulgarian Circl 10's that I mess with after I have filed/dremeled the mag catch and the very rear of the mag well on the .223 rifle.

[7.62smith 1]

Shave the trunion. It's a very small amount of material and can be done with a round stone on the dremel in a few minutes. The one I did takes bulgy circle 10's, and Galil mags with no mods to the magazine.

Edited March 30, 2012 by 7.62smith