Magineer 9 Posted March 17, 2012 Report Share Posted March 17, 2012 How short can an experienced gunsmith get the barrel of a Saiga 12 before it becomes unsafe to operate? I would consider any requirement of gloves or a reasonable chance of hearing damage, whether temporary or permanent, to be unsafe. This is based on the premise that you won't have on hearing protection, gloves, or other safety measures when you need it. What about OAL? Has anyone experimented with shortening the stock or receiver in combination with the barrel? (I was just reading about the M26 Modular Accessory Shotgun System... and I'd rather have a Saiga then a Judge for protection in my truck) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poolingmyignorance 2,191 Posted March 17, 2012 Report Share Posted March 17, 2012 (edited) Not sure if this is AS short as you CAN go, but it's the shortest I've ever seen anybody go.. http://forum.saiga-1...aker-12-ga-aow/ It ain't cheap. Edited March 17, 2012 by poolingmyignorance Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The_Caged_Bird 474 Posted March 17, 2012 Report Share Posted March 17, 2012 Tromix did a six-inch barrel with a folding stock I believe. That would make the gun about 18 inches with the stock folded... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fallschirmjager667 729 Posted March 17, 2012 Report Share Posted March 17, 2012 the tromix 6" was probably the coolest sbs i've ever seen, that widow maker is stupid expensive, who the hell would pay $3000 just to have an AOW Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Magineer 9 Posted March 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2012 Tromix did a six-inch barrel with a folding stock I believe. That would make the gun about 18 inches with the stock folded... Based on the warnings regarding the possibility of flames burning your hand with an 8" barrel, I'd say 6" is solidly unsafe. Still, pics? the tromix 6" was probably the coolest sbs i've ever seen, that widow maker is stupid expensive, who the hell would pay $3000 just to have an AOW Those who wanted an SBS but live in states like WA. Not sure if this is AS short as you CAN go, but it's the shortest I've ever seen anybody go.. http://forum.saiga-1...aker-12-ga-aow/ It ain't cheap. I'm actually trying to decide what I want Tom to build... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The_Caged_Bird 474 Posted March 17, 2012 Report Share Posted March 17, 2012 I'm sure someone from Tromix will post it up shortly. I haven't downloaded it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Magineer 9 Posted March 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2012 Found it! http://www.vaoutdoorsman.com/forum/showthread.php/1075-Tactical-HD-Shotguns-%E2%80%A2-Re-How-short-a-barrel-is-too-short I like how it has H&K sights... all about utility. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lbsrdi 1,078 Posted March 17, 2012 Report Share Posted March 17, 2012 Here ya go Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Magineer 9 Posted March 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2012 Full thread: http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=276740&p=2395206#p2395206 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shandlanos 1,470 Posted March 17, 2012 Report Share Posted March 17, 2012 (edited) If permanent hearing damage without hearing protection means it's unsafe to you, the factory barrel is unsafe. Enough powder burns outside of the barrel even with a 24" barrel, that you WILL have permanent, if minor, hearing damage every time you fire that weapon. If you fire it indoors, it will be substantially worse. Even an unsuppressed supersonic .22 does permanent hearing damage. It doesn't seem to hurt, loads of people have shot a ton of .22 without hearing protection. And a lot of them are as deaf as shit when they grow old. Edited March 17, 2012 by Shandlanos Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The_Caged_Bird 474 Posted March 17, 2012 Report Share Posted March 17, 2012 Huh? I shot my friend's G19C without hearing protection... I don't recommend that. It's got to be the loudest 9mm I've ever heard! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Magineer 9 Posted March 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2012 If permanent hearing damage without hearing protection means it's unsafe to you, the factory barrel is unsafe. Enough powder burns outside of the barrel even with a 24" barrel, that you WILL have permanent, if minor, hearing damage every time you fire that weapon. If you fire it indoors, it will be substantially worse. Even an unsuppressed supersonic .22 does permanent hearing damage. It doesn't seem to hurt, loads of people have shot a ton of .22 without hearing protection. And a lot of them are as deaf as shit when they grow old. Not so sure about that. Hearing damage is normally a result of extended exposure, not a few shots (depends on caliber). Besides, the iPod causes hearing damage long term. That's not the category of damage to which I was referring. Huh? I shot my friend's G19C without hearing protection... I don't recommend that. It's got to be the loudest 9mm I've ever heard! Huh? What you talkin' bout willis? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shandlanos 1,470 Posted March 17, 2012 Report Share Posted March 17, 2012 The ports eject lots of unburned powder through the top of the barrel, which ignites outside the barrel, noisily. Hearing damage is generally described as being caused by extended exposure - the fact is, every shot does a miniscule amount of damage. Some is temporary, some is permanent. A few shots, and you'll never notice the tiny amount of damage you've done - a few hundred or thousand shots, and you will. Having fired an M1 Garand without hearing protection, once, I never intend to repeat the experience. Firing a BAR must be horrible. One more small reason fighting during WW2 had to have been an absolute hell. I don't recommend firing a shotgun without hearing protection. A lot of powder ignites after it has left the barrel, especially on a short-barreled gun. My 8" SBS, fired with full-power 2 3/4" 00 buck, makes a pretty solid report - it's loud from 40 feet away, but hearing safe. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Magineer 9 Posted March 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2012 The ports eject lots of unburned powder through the top of the barrel, which ignites outside the barrel, noisily. Hearing damage is generally described as being caused by extended exposure - the fact is, every shot does a miniscule amount of damage. Some is temporary, some is permanent. A few shots, and you'll never notice the tiny amount of damage you've done - a few hundred or thousand shots, and you will. Having fired an M1 Garand without hearing protection, once, I never intend to repeat the experience. Firing a BAR must be horrible. One more small reason fighting during WW2 had to have been an absolute hell. I don't recommend firing a shotgun without hearing protection. A lot of powder ignites after it has left the barrel, especially on a short-barreled gun. My 8" SBS, fired with full-power 2 3/4" 00 buck, makes a pretty solid report - it's loud from 40 feet away, but hearing safe. So we agree. I don't ever WANT to fire a shotgun without hearing protection. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
incognito485 26 Posted March 17, 2012 Report Share Posted March 17, 2012 The ports eject lots of unburned powder through the top of the barrel, which ignites outside the barrel, noisily. Hearing damage is generally described as being caused by extended exposure - the fact is, every shot does a miniscule amount of damage. Some is temporary, some is permanent. A few shots, and you'll never notice the tiny amount of damage you've done - a few hundred or thousand shots, and you will. Having fired an M1 Garand without hearing protection, once, I never intend to repeat the experience. Firing a BAR must be horrible. One more small reason fighting during WW2 had to have been an absolute hell. I don't recommend firing a shotgun without hearing protection. A lot of powder ignites after it has left the barrel, especially on a short-barreled gun. My 8" SBS, fired with full-power 2 3/4" 00 buck, makes a pretty solid report - it's loud from 40 feet away, but hearing safe. So we agree. I don't ever WANT to fire a shotgun without hearing protection. I guess you're not much of a bird hunter. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Magineer 9 Posted March 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2012 The ports eject lots of unburned powder through the top of the barrel, which ignites outside the barrel, noisily. Hearing damage is generally described as being caused by extended exposure - the fact is, every shot does a miniscule amount of damage. Some is temporary, some is permanent. A few shots, and you'll never notice the tiny amount of damage you've done - a few hundred or thousand shots, and you will. Having fired an M1 Garand without hearing protection, once, I never intend to repeat the experience. Firing a BAR must be horrible. One more small reason fighting during WW2 had to have been an absolute hell. I don't recommend firing a shotgun without hearing protection. A lot of powder ignites after it has left the barrel, especially on a short-barreled gun. My 8" SBS, fired with full-power 2 3/4" 00 buck, makes a pretty solid report - it's loud from 40 feet away, but hearing safe. So we agree. I don't ever WANT to fire a shotgun without hearing protection. I guess you're not much of a bird hunter. Nope Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kodaline 178 Posted March 17, 2012 Report Share Posted March 17, 2012 Most bird hunters I know, and me, use earplugs. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The_Caged_Bird 474 Posted March 17, 2012 Report Share Posted March 17, 2012 (edited) Not to mention, 24 inch barrels, puts the sound further away from you. I've shot my S-12s without protection a couple of times just to see how loud it would be if it's ever needed at night. It will ring your ears, but it's not near as bad as my father's 300 Win Mag compensated bolt-action... Edited March 18, 2012 by Caged Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun12 205 Posted March 18, 2012 Report Share Posted March 18, 2012 No matter what you shoot i would suggest you use hearing protection. Not too long ago i had shot my Mosin Nagant without hearing protection (My sister was going inside to get our ears before we shot and i got impatient). I looked down the barrel, took aim, and took my shot. I don't think i have ever heard a noise that loud before. My ears were ringing for hours. Even if its just your .22 you should use hearing protection. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
incognito485 26 Posted March 18, 2012 Report Share Posted March 18, 2012 Most bird hunters I know, and me, use earplugs. I have hunted quite a bit with alot of different people. And I have never seen anyone wear ear plugs. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shandlanos 1,470 Posted March 18, 2012 Report Share Posted March 18, 2012 Most bird hunters I know, and me, use earplugs. I have hunted quite a bit with alot of different people. And I have never seen anyone wear ear plugs. You hunt with a lot of retards. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
incognito485 26 Posted March 18, 2012 Report Share Posted March 18, 2012 Most bird hunters I know, and me, use earplugs. I have hunted quite a bit with alot of different people. And I have never seen anyone wear ear plugs. You hunt with a lot of retards. You mean as in retards that can't hear when there is an animal walking 10 feet away because they're wearing ear plugs? Or their hunting buddy if he's trying to tell you something? You must not be a very successfuly hunter. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shandlanos 1,470 Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 Yes. After a while those retards can't hear when there is an animal growling at them 10 feet away. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Deadeye 325 Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 I would not use ear plugs for hunting. And I hav never seen anybody hunt with them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shandlanos 1,470 Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 Wow. I wear game ears these days. Used to just wear hearing protection and rely on my eyes. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lbsrdi 1,078 Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 I think having a cheap lightweight pair of plugs around your neck makes sense. If you have time to throw them on, great. If you have to react quickly you may not have time tho. twocents 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The_Caged_Bird 474 Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 I've always had a loud stereo. On the Kitty Hawk, my berthing was right underneath the forward water brakes, and I don't wear ears when hunting either. I can still hear... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
incognito485 26 Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 Thats a shocker, Im not the only "retard" apparently. Maybe cops should wear them too in case they have to shoot their gun during their shift, and you know......... just rely on their vision. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
preparehandbook 326 Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 I used to always target shoot without hearing protection, because I was young and stupid. the final straw was a situation where it became necessary to fir a .308 from inside a vehicle and no time to roll the window down. Since then I've always had intermittent tinitus and I have to say "what?" a lot. After 25ish years of this I can lip read enough to help fill in the blanks. I do not wear hearing protection hunting, but I do for all other sport shooting. I recently met a fellow CHL holder who carrys earplugs in his pocket so if he has to use his gun he could save his hearing. I laughed for a long time. I explained to him that it usually goes from a normal day to "Oh Shit, BANG-BANG!" in a matter of seconds. In the several combat and work related situations I have been involved in I wouldn't have had time to don hearing protection, hell, I barely had time to poop myself. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Magineer 9 Posted March 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 Thats a shocker, Im not the only "retard" apparently. Maybe cops should wear them too in case they have to shoot their gun during their shift, and you know......... just rely on their vision. Actually, there are excellent options for officers (see: http://www.westone.com/). SWAT teams do use them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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