garandman 11 Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 After much hand wringing and sleepless nites..... I've decided to SBS my Saiga. (Mines a 20 but I'm figgerin' its all the same as the 12, to the experts) Whta companies can do the SBS conversion? Tromix, Red Jacket....any others? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
sunnybean 939 Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 Tonys list opens again in June... Tac47 has some nice looking builds. LoneStar is doing title ii work now. InRange might be another POHF another 1 Link to post Share on other sites
dolomite_supafly 56 Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 Do the paper work and shorten it yourself. Whether they do it or you do it the wait for approval is going to be the same. At least if you do it yourself you can continue to use and shoot your gun while waiting on approval. The cost for your stamp is exactly the same. Dolomite Link to post Share on other sites
Pratt 0 Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 Tom Cole does sbs conversions. From his site. http://www.cadizgunworks.com/zcstore/Page2.html Link to post Share on other sites
vulcan16 971 Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 I've seen dozens of TAC 47's builds at local gun shows and Keith does some great work. Link to post Share on other sites
psl sniper 963 Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 lonestar Link to post Share on other sites
garandman 11 Posted March 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 Do the paper work and shorten it yourself. Whether they do it or you do it the wait for approval is going to be the same. At least if you do it yourself you can continue to use and shoot your gun while waiting on approval. The cost for your stamp is exactly the same. Dolomite I've thought about that. Two possible options - 1. Shorten bbl to 14-15" and open the gas ports. Fairly easy to do. If spare barrels existed, I'd already be all over this idea. 2. I've even thought of shortening and relocating the gas system. I've even thought of buying a spare gun to modify. I've repeatedly posted asking for anyone who's tried this themseves, and can't find anyone. Link to post Share on other sites
Atomic Punk 25 Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 I remember Tony from Tromix saying you could shorten the barrel to 12" w/o having to shorten the gas system. That's my plan (after the stamp comes back, of course). Link to post Share on other sites
The_Caged_Bird 474 Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 I remember Tony from Tromix saying you could shorten the barrel to 12" w/o having to shorten the gas system. That's my plan (after the stamp comes back, of course). Same here, well 13" but generally the same... Link to post Share on other sites
storm6490 2,768 Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 super stoked with the quality of my regular TAC47. Equal only to a Tromix. Link to post Share on other sites
jmacken37 4 Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 Gunfixr did a beautiful job on my 13" gun. Jake Link to post Share on other sites
garandman 11 Posted March 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 Gunfixr did a beautiful job on my 13" gun. Jake Pics? Or link to website / contact info? Link to post Share on other sites
clifton 354 Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 Heres a little bit of Shortness 1 Link to post Share on other sites
ramlake 98 Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 Do the paper work and shorten it yourself. Whether they do it or you do it the wait for approval is going to be the same. At least if you do it yourself you can continue to use and shoot your gun while waiting on approval. The cost for your stamp is exactly the same. Dolomite Not really. They, the manufacturer do not have to wait for approval. If you, an individual, build on a form 1 you cannot sell it except to a dealer. If they build it and you then wait for a form 4 it's in the NFA registry as a transferable SBS that has a decent market value based opon the quality of the build. Link to post Share on other sites
Lone Star Arms 2,047 Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 Here you go. Our contact info is in my signature line. Mike Link to post Share on other sites
The_Caged_Bird 474 Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 DO WANT!!! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
dolomite_supafly 56 Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 Do the paper work and shorten it yourself. Whether they do it or you do it the wait for approval is going to be the same. At least if you do it yourself you can continue to use and shoot your gun while waiting on approval. The cost for your stamp is exactly the same. Dolomite Not really. They, the manufacturer do not have to wait for approval. If you, an individual, build on a form 1 you cannot sell it except to a dealer. If they build it and you then wait for a form 4 it's in the NFA registry as a transferable SBS that has a decent market value based opon the quality of the build. I meant that the wait for the stamp is the same whether a shop does the build then transfers it or the individual does it on a Form 1. Either way the owner has to wait for approval before being in possession of his SBS. But the owner can still use his item while waiting for approval. Can't do that with a shop doing the work. The shop MUST have the item in their possession and built before submitting the paperwork for approval. They can't submit the paperwork while the owner still has possession of it outside of the shop. And after it is built they must keep possession of the item is the transfer is approved. The Form 1 is a tax to make the NFA item and a Form 4 is the tax to transfer that item to another, two seperate things that serve two seperate purposes. It is perfectly legal to build then later on sell your Form 1 item providing you did not build it with intent to sell. Selling it after the fact is perfectly legal providing the buyer gets approval prior to the transfer. All the buyer needs to do is fill out a Form 4, if in state, wait for approval then take possession. The deal with intent is most people who do something with intent rarely do just one. Out of state is a little trickier but it can still be done. The biggest thing is why would someone want to purchse a NFA item when they could build it themselves. Especially out of state transfers because of the extra hassles. Plus you get a NFA item with someone elses name on it. Dolomite Link to post Share on other sites
ramlake 98 Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 Do the paper work and shorten it yourself. Whether they do it or you do it the wait for approval is going to be the same. At least if you do it yourself you can continue to use and shoot your gun while waiting on approval. The cost for your stamp is exactly the same. Dolomite Not really. They, the manufacturer do not have to wait for approval. If you, an individual, build on a form 1 you cannot sell it except to a dealer. If they build it and you then wait for a form 4 it's in the NFA registry as a transferable SBS that has a decent market value based opon the quality of the build. I meant that the wait for the stamp is the same whether a shop does the build then transfers it or the individual does it on a Form 1. Either way the owner has to wait for approval before being in possession of his SBS. But the owner can still use his item while waiting for approval. Can't do that with a shop doing the work. The shop MUST have the item in their possession and built before submitting the paperwork for approval. They can't submit the paperwork while the owner still has possession of it outside of the shop. And after it is built they must keep possession of the item is the transfer is approved. The Form 1 is a tax to make the NFA item and a Form 4 is the tax to transfer that item to another, two seperate things that serve two seperate purposes. It is perfectly legal to build then later on sell your Form 1 item providing you did not build it with intent to sell. Selling it after the fact is perfectly legal providing the buyer gets approval prior to the transfer. All the buyer needs to do is fill out a Form 4, if in state, wait for approval then take possession. The deal with intent is most people who do something with intent rarely do just one. Out of state is a little trickier but it can still be done. The biggest thing is why would someone want to purchse a NFA item when they could build it themselves. Especially out of state transfers because of the extra hassles. Plus you get a NFA item with someone elses name on it. Dolomite An individual can build on a form 1 without engraving their name, if they want to sell it then a manufacturer's name, which is the individual would have be engraved on the reciever. I personally don't want to have my name and address on a gun that someone else now owns,which could be used in a crime and civil jury decides I'm to blame for a wrongful death because I built it. I still believe a weapon built on a form 1 cannot be transferred to an individual Link to post Share on other sites
sunnybean 939 Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) I still believe a weapon built on a form 1 cannot be transferred to an individual Ray, a Form 1 needs to be engraved when made, and is transferable. I have bought and sold guns built on a Form 1. Of course, the transfer was done on a Form 4, but they were built on Form 1's by individuals. Edited March 21, 2012 by sunnybean Link to post Share on other sites
ramlake 98 Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) I may be wrong it won't be the first time Edited March 22, 2012 by RamLake Link to post Share on other sites
sunnybean 939 Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 If building on a receiver such as NoDak, then NoDak's info is listed in box 4a (original manufacturer). Whoever is listed in box 3b needs to have their name, city, and state engraved into the item. Link to post Share on other sites
kevin.rose0@gmail.com 62 Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 The biggest thing is why would someone want to purchse a NFA item when they could build it themselves. Especially out of state transfers because of the extra hassles. Plus you get a NFA item with someone elses name on it. I'd rather that the gun say Tromix, Broken Arrow Ok rather then The InsertYourNameHere Trust, Somewere, NM. Plus people who make SBS/SBR's for a living probably know something about what not to do to a gun that I don't really want to find out cutting up my guns. Link to post Share on other sites
garandman 11 Posted March 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) Thax Tac47 / Lonestar. Y'all both do some AMAZING work. I'll be in touch! Thanx for being part of this forum! To all - FYI....ATF will approve a Form 1 gun registered to an individual with the original manufacturers name and address stamped on it. If you are just shorteneing a barrel, you are technically NOT the manufacturer. Edited March 22, 2012 by garandman Link to post Share on other sites
sunnybean 939 Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 To all - FYI....ATF will approve a Form 1 gun registered to an individual with the original manufacturers name and address stamped on it. If you are just shorteneing a barrel, you are technically NOT the manufacturer. Technically, by filling out the F1 as an applicant to make the NFA item, you are the "maker". The maker must mark the item with their name, city and state. You can use the serial number from the original manufacturer but you need to engrave your info as it appears in 3b. Link to post Share on other sites
joelrod47 373 Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 My short guns, and some of my long guns, all say TROMIX on them !!! With a little patience, yours can too !! Link to post Share on other sites
kevin.rose0@gmail.com 62 Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Technically, by filling out the F1 as an applicant to make the NFA item, you are the "maker". The maker must mark the item with their name, city and state. You can use the serial number from the original manufacturer but you need to engrave your info as it appears in 3b. I understand that various ATF officals have, in the past, allowed Form 1s and written ATF letters that approved using the original manufactures name and address. They have apparantly been told to stop doing this. Link to post Share on other sites
garandman 11 Posted March 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) Technically, by filling out the F1 as an applicant to make the NFA item, you are the "maker". The maker must mark the item with their name, city and state. You can use the serial number from the original manufacturer but you need to engrave your info as it appears in 3b. I do mine the way they send the stamped Form 1 back to me. After they send the stamp back, that's their problem, not mine. Edited March 22, 2012 by garandman Link to post Share on other sites
sunnybean 939 Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Technically, by filling out the F1 as an applicant to make the NFA item, you are the "maker". The maker must mark the item with their name, city and state. You can use the serial number from the original manufacturer but you need to engrave your info as it appears in 3b. I do mine the way they send the stamped Form 1 back to me. After they send the stamp back, that's their problem, not mine. I don't understand what you mean by this. What I am saying is that you need to put your name (individual, trust, llc. etc.) and address in box 3b (where they will send the approved form back to). The original manufacturer's info goes in box 4a. If you are bending up a receiver from a flat, then those boxes will have the same info in them. Either way, whatever is listed in box 3b needs to be engraved into the item. Link to post Share on other sites
MCASgt New River 10,036 Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 All your questions can be answered here: http://www.atf.gov/publications/firearms/nfa-handbook/ Link to post Share on other sites
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