Direct_ecneulfnI 5 Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 (edited) In your oppinion what is the best gas adjustment plug? I just purchased my first Saiga Sunday and took it straight to the range. Fired about 15 rounds and it did not eject/cycle properly once. I read threw some other posts about the same issue and I think this is where I want to begin my trouble shooting. Any input would be greatly appreciated. P.S. I did try settings 1 and 2 and neither worked. Edited March 20, 2012 by Direct_ecneulfnI Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The_Caged_Bird 474 Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 No plug will "fix" your gun, first you need the appropriate amount of gas entering the gas block to cycle the weapon before you can tune the gas down to suit your needs. With that being said, I run the autoplug, and I won't run any other... 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Direct_ecneulfnI 5 Posted March 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 (edited) Yeah I figured it was a starting point not a fix. Is there a how to on how to get the appropriate ammount of gas into the block? Edited March 20, 2012 by Direct_ecneulfnI Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spaniel 7 Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 Plenty of content on the site in the stickies and search on this. In short, check your port opening to see if they are blocked and what the size is. If the ports are in spec, you need to profile your bolt and hammer to reduce friction. Unless you have blocked or undersized ports, profiling should be all you need to get it cycling. Mine had fine ports. I swapped the FCG for a Texas AK group, and appropriately profiled myself with a dremel. It will now run anything under the sun. A +1 on the Autoplug, the only time I don't run it is for 3" turkey rounds, I put the factory plug back in for those. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guns Are Great 140 Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 (edited) http://forum.saiga-1...cked-gas-ports/ follow this link and you will find your answer to your likely problem then worry about plugs and such. Good luck! Good Shooting! Edited March 20, 2012 by Guns Are Great 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Direct_ecneulfnI 5 Posted March 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 Yeah I read it, I can see 4 holes and checked them with a paper clip and they all seem fine. Good read tho, thanks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guns Are Great 140 Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) Yeah I read it, I can see 4 holes and checked them with a paper clip and they all seem fine. Good read tho, thanks. Well mine had 4 open ports and all were visible too.It still wasn't totally dependable until I removed the gas block and actually made them the size they are supposed to be and for good measure, 1 hole made a rch larger. It was mostly dependable with booster puc, v-plug, and polishing. You want to save some money? Then the ports have to be size checked, not just viewed and paper clipped! Good luck and Good shooting! Edited March 21, 2012 by Guns Are Great 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Direct_ecneulfnI 5 Posted March 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 What is the proper size the ports should be? I seen one post of someone saying 4 ports at .093". Then I saw someone else say it was overkill. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The_Caged_Bird 474 Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Each gun is different, mine had three ports, they were smaller than 3/32". I jerked the gas block and enlarged them to 3/32" each knowing that you don't want to go any bigger than that EVER. I had a good, reliable weapon but it still wouldn't fire from the hip... So I went down to my local "we got everything" hardware store (Texas Tool and Supply) and found the numerical drill bit size just smaller than 3/32, I eye-balled it. Then I added a fourth port at that size... some guns run great and even fire from the hip with three ports, others don't. Saigas are like snowflakes, only more badass! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guns Are Great 140 Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) The following was posted a while back and I think this is the guide i used. I went with the smaller size on three holes and on the hole closest to the muzzle I used the larger bit for the 3 hole size. My gun runs the cheap stuff 100% now. tapeworm Contributor 133 posts Gender:Male Location:Mississippi Gulf Coast Posted 07 December 2011 - 08:56 PM I have a 4 hole constantly having cyclic problems no matter what setting or ammo other than 3" so I first bought the TAC47 autoplug which made it useless in cycling so removed the gas block to find my ports were only .062 (1/16") I promptly opened 3 of four to .093 (3/32") and the one closest to the piston to .078 (5/64") . It took 5 rounds to tune the autoplug and it now cycles everything winchester universal through 1560fps 2 3/4" slugs with no problems. Thanks to all the info if it was not for the "Test Subjects" we have done and the sharing of the knowledge others like me may have been lost. Edited March 22, 2012 by Guns Are Great Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Direct_ecneulfnI 5 Posted March 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Perhaps I will try like tapeworm did. Sounds like its the same thing Caged did. Thanks, I really appreciate the help. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guns Are Great 140 Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) You're Welcome! There are many knowledgeable and skilled folks on this forum. I have only repeated what I learned in the process of tuning mine. Thanks to this forum, the IZ109 is one firearm I know and understand from the inside out! I hope you will soon appreciate, if you don't already, what a great gun this is! If those Russian boys and girls had more incentive, i.e. true free market, then we wouldn't be tuning them, but as it is, you just learn more about it! Edited March 22, 2012 by Guns Are Great Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Deadeye 325 Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) I have a 3 port gun that had a ocasional hickup sometimes. after polishing and prifiling bolt and sanding rails. I just opend the ports up to 3/32 tonight removing tha gas block was easy with the air hammer. I will shoot it soon and give some more feedback. Edited March 22, 2012 by deadeye 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Direct_ecneulfnI 5 Posted March 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) Bought 2 brand new RIDGID COLDfire bits for this today and they both broke within 2 seconds. Guess I will have to pick up some Dewalt bits tomorrow and get this done for the weekend. Edited March 23, 2012 by Direct_ecneulfnI Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guns Are Great 140 Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) Bought 2 brand new RIDGID COLDfire bits for this today and they both broke within 2 seconds. Guess I will have to pick up some Dewalt bits tomorrow and get this done for the weekend. wow! mine are black and decker cheap chinese shit and took about 1-2 seconds per hole in the barrel with a black and decker cordless drill. Make sure you maintain the proper angle and go slow! Edited March 23, 2012 by Guns Are Great Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Direct_ecneulfnI 5 Posted March 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 Yeah I found another 3/32 in my garage shortly after this post so I got the 3 holes done. I just need to get a new 5/64 tomorrow. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The_Caged_Bird 474 Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 It's all about proper speed and pressure when drilling. Hell, I didn't even break a bit when I ADDED a port... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
saiga12-er 5 Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 Yeah I read it, I can see 4 holes and checked them with a paper clip and they all seem fine. Good read tho, thanks. Don't be deceived by the paper clip test. I did the very same thing and then went on to looking at other possible causes to no avail. Then I finally gave in and removed the gas block. Geesh, what a mess. Sure all four ports were open, and although each was large enough to accommodate a paper clip, they were all different sizes and not a cleanly drilled hole. And not to mention a paper clip is smaller than what your holes should be anyway. I re-drilled them to 5/64th and gas pressure is no longer an issue. Until you can actually clearly see the ports you do not know if they are okay or not. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
saiga12-er 5 Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 Bought 2 brand new RIDGID COLDfire bits for this today and they both broke within 2 seconds. Guess I will have to pick up some Dewalt bits tomorrow and get this done for the weekend. No offence but it sounds like an operator error issue. It can be easy to snag a bit on an angled drilling surface such as this. Use cutting fluid or oil when drilling. Do not drill it dry, and avoid flexing the bit. If you feel you need to flex the bit so you can get a good taper on your holes, only flex the bit slightly and only after you have made the initial re-drilling of all ports. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Direct_ecneulfnI 5 Posted March 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 Yeah I read it, I can see 4 holes and checked them with a paper clip and they all seem fine. Good read tho, thanks. Don't be deceived by the paper clip test. I did the very same thing and then went on to looking at other possible causes to no avail. Then I finally gave in and removed the gas block. Geesh, what a mess. Sure all four ports were open, and although each was large enough to accommodate a paper clip, they were all different sizes and not a cleanly drilled hole. And not to mention a paper clip is smaller than what your holes should be anyway. I re-drilled them to 5/64th and gas pressure is no longer an issue. Until you can actually clearly see the ports you do not know if they are okay or not. Bought 2 brand new RIDGID COLDfire bits for this today and they both broke within 2 seconds. Guess I will have to pick up some Dewalt bits tomorrow and get this done for the weekend. No offence but it sounds like an operator error issue. It can be easy to snag a bit on an angled drilling surface such as this. Use cutting fluid or oil when drilling. Do not drill it dry, and avoid flexing the bit. If you feel you need to flex the bit so you can get a good taper on your holes, only flex the bit slightly and only after you have made the initial re-drilling of all ports. Day late on these, but thanks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SOUPCAN 0 Posted March 24, 2012 Report Share Posted March 24, 2012 You didnt mention what kind of ammo you were shooting. Low brass crap wont work on many of these without some add ons or gunsmithing to fix.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Direct_ecneulfnI 5 Posted March 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2012 I am pretty sure it was Low Recoil 00 Buck Shot. I dont remember the brand, maybe Rimmington, what ever the range offered. I just increased the 4 gas ports from 1/16, Front 3 to 3/32 and closest to piston to 5/64 and filed out the hole to give them better exposureand installed an auto plug. The local range will only allow low recoil ammo so I am restriced to that if anyone has any input on some good rounds priced decent. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Deadeye 325 Posted March 25, 2012 Report Share Posted March 25, 2012 I am pretty sure it was Low Recoil 00 Buck Shot. I dont remember the brand, maybe Rimmington, what ever the range offered. I just increased the 4 gas ports from 1/16, Front 3 to 3/32 and closest to piston to 5/64 and filed out the hole to give them better exposureand installed an auto plug. The local range will only allow low recoil ammo so I am restriced to that if anyone has any input on some good rounds priced decent. my local wallmart has the federal game load on sale for 4.50 a box I cant relaod that cheap Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The_Caged_Bird 474 Posted March 25, 2012 Report Share Posted March 25, 2012 I am pretty sure it was Low Recoil 00 Buck Shot. I dont remember the brand, maybe Rimmington, what ever the range offered. I just increased the 4 gas ports from 1/16, Front 3 to 3/32 and closest to piston to 5/64 and filed out the hole to give them better exposureand installed an auto plug. The local range will only allow low recoil ammo so I am restriced to that if anyone has any input on some good rounds priced decent. You enlarged the ports and you're STILL having problems? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Direct_ecneulfnI 5 Posted March 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2012 No i have not been back to the range since I first got it last weekend, I just did the ports last night and got it back together today. Never made it to the range to test it today. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guns Are Great 140 Posted March 25, 2012 Report Share Posted March 25, 2012 I willing to bet your gonna see some great results. I think polishing is still warranted, especially of the FCG, bolt, and BCG, don't forget to slick the rails alittle also. just think decreased friction = smoother action and longer life! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Direct_ecneulfnI 5 Posted March 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2012 Yeah that has caught my attention in my reading threw forums. I think im going to order a new trigger and have Paul? do the whole package. But I still want to get out hopfully tomorrow or next weekend to test it as is so I can gauge the progress. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Direct_ecneulfnI 5 Posted March 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 Update. Just got back from the range, got to run 25 rounds threw it since drilling the gas ports and the auto plug install. First round FTE, gave the auto plug 1/2 a turn and the next 24 rounds ran perfect. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DLT 1,646 Posted March 31, 2012 Report Share Posted March 31, 2012 My S-12 has run like an absolute dream after I ported out the three holes to 3/32 and slightly enlarged the port hole on the gas block so it wouldn't obstruct the two side holes. I can run the cheap stuff with 100% reliability. I use the gunfixer four position gas plug on mine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
one2za 7 Posted March 31, 2012 Report Share Posted March 31, 2012 OK, I thought the question was about a gas adjustment plug? I got the Autoplug and tuned it to where it can cycle the Walmart Federal bulk pack. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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