notadrone 5 Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 JTE Performance Power Hammer Spring /Main Spring I am converting my s20 and thinking of using one of these from css and want to know if it's a noticeable change. Any insight would be great. good bad neutral Quote Link to post Share on other sites
D.C.MORRISON 494 Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 i never really used the stock spring. i installed the JTE spring when i converted my s-12. so i cannot give a comparison. mine works fine, no complaints. you may have to tweak the legs some. i figured that it never hurts to have a spare. same with the firing pin. i swapped it out with the tromix right away. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
roachtron 49 Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 I have heard a few reports of light primer strikes. I would just stick with the stock spring, combined with the tapco its a pretty decent trigger. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lbsrdi 1,078 Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) This has been discussed here http://forum.saiga-1...pring-worth-it/ and... http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/63368-jte-mainspring/page__p__607351__hl__+power%20+mainspring__fromsearch__1&do=findComment&comment=607351 Edited March 21, 2012 by King of the Hill Quote Link to post Share on other sites
geepelton 105 Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 I have one and will never go back to a factory spring. Way much better. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
whitedpalms 1 Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) I got one in my convertion kit, Didnt know to bend it to keep it from falling off to the side, it also let the bolt hold lever get stuck up several times, and also was getting light primer strikes every 4-5 rounds. Cause me alot of trouble. After reading up on it Im sure i could make it work by bending it, I mean tuning it. LOL Would have been nice if there was instructions of some kind. Also didnt know I could just use the old spring. Now I got it in and cant wait to get back and shoot it tomorrow after taking it out several times with problems. I might even go shoot the spring with some slugs. Im sure its a great spring for what it is meant for, but it needs instructions to let people know its not a out fo the box install part. Edited March 21, 2012 by whitedpalms Quote Link to post Share on other sites
notadrone 5 Posted March 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 Thanks for the input and the links. I'll get one to have a spare, and wait until after I'm sure the conversion is running smooth to try it out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The_Caged_Bird 474 Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) I got one in my convertion kit, Didnt know to bend it to keep it from falling off to the side, it also let the bolt hold lever get stuck up several times, and also was getting light primer strikes every 4-5 rounds. Cause me alot of trouble. After reading up on it Im sure i could make it work by bending it, I mean tuning it. LOL Would have been nice if there was instructions of some kind. Also didnt know I could just use the old spring. Now I got it in and cant wait to get back and shoot it tomorrow after taking it out several times with problems. I might even go shoot the spring with some slugs. Im sure its a great spring for what it is meant for, but it needs instructions to let people know its not a out fo the box install part. Seriously dude? I guess Mr. Travers felt that if you are smart enough to operate a screwdriver you can figure it out or read the many threads on the forum about this issue... Can you figure it out from a picture? I realize that this is a braided spring but try to bear with me here: Edited March 21, 2012 by Caged Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Photoguy 202 Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 I don't know if the JT Hammer Spring is a good inbvestment or not. I ordered one for my S-12 conversion, and the thing was bent in a way that the spring kept slipping off the trigger assembly. So, after attempting to correct the issue by following some bad instructions, I ended up worsening it and ended throwing the spring out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rs51085 136 Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 i am currently changing out all of my ak pattern rifles to this spring. i had one of the older springs (6 coils?)that they quit making and had no problems with it either. it was very light. the new ones (5 coils?)don't require as much tuning. this spring plus a tapco trigger and your trigger pull is probably less than 3 lbs. if you have a problem figuring out how to adjust it just watch the how to video on the css web site, it makes it very easy. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gpqueen 545 Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 Last video on video page showing how to bend it. http://store.carolin...ge?sfs=90a6d2c6 FYI the factory braided coil spring needs bent also to keep from falling off the trigger. http://youtu.be/m6bCedQL-5A Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lbsrdi 1,078 Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 That bend is simple, the thing I wish I knew is how exactly to tune it for harder/lighter hammer strikes. I have seen some explanations and a pic of where to bend but I wish someone would explain it in greater detail or make a short video for a dummy like me. Basically I need someone to hold my hand and do it for me. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bridis 319 Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) I found it helped my gun perform better using lighter loads during the break-in period. But I've since switched back to the stock spring. Edited March 22, 2012 by Bridis 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
whitedpalms 1 Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 I got one in my convertion kit, Didnt know to bend it to keep it from falling off to the side, it also let the bolt hold lever get stuck up several times, and also was getting light primer strikes every 4-5 rounds. Cause me alot of trouble. After reading up on it Im sure i could make it work by bending it, I mean tuning it. LOL Would have been nice if there was instructions of some kind. Also didnt know I could just use the old spring. Now I got it in and cant wait to get back and shoot it tomorrow after taking it out several times with problems. I might even go shoot the spring with some slugs. Im sure its a great spring for what it is meant for, but it needs instructions to let people know its not a out fo the box install part. Seriously dude? I guess Mr. Travers felt that if you are smart enough to operate a screwdriver you can figure it out or read the many threads on the forum about this issue... So they just asume im going to come on here and read about a spring before I install it. LOL I watched a video on youtube to do my convertion and it said you could put a bend if you wanted, it didnt tell me yout had to, I figured that out and didnt get the bend right the first time, I did the second time, and then none of the videos addressed the failure to strike the primer hard enough. So had to take my gun out 3-4times to make the spring work, I was smart enough to figure it out and come on here and read. Fact is the spring dont work out the box, and theres no instructions. Instructions would have saved me so much time, Alls it had to say is the spring is custom and does need to be tuned in order to work right and I would have came online , read and got it right the first time. My stock spring works perfect. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
D.C.MORRISON 494 Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 i have owned a good number of shotguns. the saiga is a unique animal. i'll admit that i was apprehensive about tearing into one. but due to this site and a lot of effort put forth by many here. i really enjoy working on my s-12. like many parts this spring is an after market option. many of the after market parts i have purchased came without instructions. i felt that it was assumed. that anyone seeking out such specialty parts would have a basic working knowledge of simple mechanics. or already have a basic understanding of the AK system. this thread makes me think that some folks should stick with pump guns. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jdtravers 637 Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 I have stated in the past and I will state it again; Anytime a customer has a problem with one of my parts, give me a call and I will explain the installation or do what it takes to help them out. I will do my best as long as the customer does not try to use me as their personal information source and monopolize my time. There are literally thousands of the JTE Spring out there and it has a proven track record. There are cases where it has not performed to the customers standard, but that is to be expected from any product, except possibly pussy. In all seriousness, any part that you buy, which is not factory, is a CUSTOM part. Springs are crucial in properly tuning a firearm and when done properly will enhance the reliability and function of the system. The Spring IS NOT for every application, but you the customer needs to know what you are doing and make a knowledgeable decision or seek guidance from a knowledgeable smith. 99% of the people I deal with on the forum or buy my parts, know what they are doing or have the mechanical expertise to either figure it out or seek the guidance and then run with it. It is that 1% who really don't have a clue what the fuck they are doing and probably should not even own a firearm that have a hard time figuring some of this simple shit out, like increasing the tension of a double torsion spring. It's kinda like the old saying, "You couldn't pour piss out of a boot even if it had the instructions written on the bottom of the boot," or words to that effect. Sorry if I have insulated any of you and I promise to work on my people skills in the near future. As Ozzy would say, "Love you all". Later, Jack 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TO THE FLOOR IN A 63 121 Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 good answer Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bridis 319 Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Jack, your people skills are just fine. Speaking from the standpoint of someone that has had a couple of conversations with you. You are a very passionate and accommodating individual. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lbsrdi 1,078 Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Gotta admit that before today I had never even heard of the term, 'double torsion spring.' Actually before I owned my S12 I never even removed an axis pin from any of my AKs. I could field strip the things and clean them, but I did not even understand really how the spring worked. I am sure I am not the only one who has been there at some point. Once you dive in and do it, it is simple, I know now. I am not a 'double torsion spring' expert, amittedly. But this shit is not rocket science, it is essentially a peice of wire. Here is the thing, if I buy this spring I don't want to just be taking a stab in the dark bending the thing here and there, trial and error style. Expecially sense it is 'simple shit' , it seems that it would take one only seconds to explain to us 1%ers who don't have a clue...' exactly where and how much to bend in what direction. Example: "For more spring tension bend the spring here and here, in this direction. For less bend the opposite direction". I realize that this post will not pursuade you to help me as I have asked before, it just seems like it would be easier and take less time to explain than you have already spent insulting me and others who do not know. That seems pretty simple to me. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jdtravers 637 Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 That is why I say to give me a call. I can explain it faster over the phone and other points involved with tuning the gun. I have had numerous people just send me the spring and I will make the bends for them at no cost and send it back. I am all about 100% customer satisfaction, but I am a one man show and my patience gets tried in this customer service based business and there are some people who I would just as soon not have as customers. Building a gun is like building an engine. You have to give some thought to the parts you use and what it is going to be used for, is it for racing, rpm/torque, endurance, etc. Sometimes I have no problem telling a customer that I don't think my product will perform to what they want and recommend another product or stay with stock. Jack 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lbsrdi 1,078 Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 That makes sense that you can better explain over the phone. Adjusting peoples springs for them is going above and beyond and it sounds like you have good customer service if there is an issue. As someone who runs a small business (very small) I understand what it is like to do it all by yourself, and simple questions do get tiring. The reason I am interested in the spring is the fact that it can be bent to add a harder hammer strike and holds better than the stock spring after being tuned.(I was getting light hammer strikes with another gun) I will order one soon from CSS and will figure it out,maybe even make a video to help others understand how to tune it. Now is that the blind leading the blind or what? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jdtravers 637 Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 OK, here is where I give my knowledge away. Light strikes are generally not the fault of a light main spring, but are caused by an interference fit between the striker and the bolt. The factory mainspring is strong enough to hammer #16 nails into a 2X4, and will overcome this problem. But the factory spring can cause too much pre load on the firing mechanism and slow down the recoil cycle of the system considerably. Pull the bolt out of the carrier. Push the striker flush with the bolt extension and you will see the firing pin DOES NOT extrude past the bolt face. It takes the inertia of the hammer driving the striker into the firing pin, and the striker will carry that inertia by entering INTO the bolt opening to achieve primer ignition. Take the pin out of the bolt assembly and pull the bolt head out and observe the relationship between the bolt, firing pin, and the striker. If the bolt does not have a slight bevel on the inside edge of the opening or if the striker does not have a smooth radius on the corners, then the striker can hang up on the corner of the bolt shoulder/opening and not be able to drive the firing pin into the primer. Not every striker/bolt has this problem but there are many of them that do and the JTE Main Spring will generally allow this problem to show. The problem is generally intermittent and this is why it is hard to diagnose. Evey gun can benefit from smoothing out the transition of the striker INTO the opening of the bolt. I have included a quick/dirty drawing to represent this relationship between the bolt and the striker. There is more to building a firearm correctly than just bolting on parts. Jack 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lbsrdi 1,078 Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Thank you very much for that info. I did not know any of that and it is very helpful information. Thank you for explaining that. I will inspect the gun later. +1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
joebanda1213 59 Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) Over 2,000 rounds through my saiga 12 with zero light strikes. It has made my trigger ALMOST too light. Spring was never tuned btw Edited March 22, 2012 by Jbanda1213 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
notadrone 5 Posted March 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 OK, here is where I give my knowledge away. Light strikes are generally not the fault of a light main spring, but are caused by an interference fit between the striker and the bolt. The factory mainspring is strong enough to hammer #16 nails into a 2X4, and will overcome this problem. But the factory spring can cause too much pre load on the firing mechanism and slow down the recoil cycle of the system considerably. Pull the bolt out of the carrier. Push the striker flush with the bolt extension and you will see the firing pin DOES NOT extrude past the bolt face. It takes the inertia of the hammer driving the striker into the firing pin, and the striker will carry that inertia by entering INTO the bolt opening to achieve primer ignition. Take the pin out of the bolt assembly and pull the bolt head out and observe the relationship between the bolt, firing pin, and the striker. If the bolt does not have a slight bevel on the inside edge of the opening or if the striker does not have a smooth radius on the corners, then the striker can hang up on the corner of the bolt shoulder/opening and not be able to drive the firing pin into the primer. Not every striker/bolt has this problem but there are many of them that do and the JTE Main Spring will generally allow this problem to show. The problem is generally intermittent and this is why it is hard to diagnose. Evey gun can benefit from smoothing out the transition of the striker INTO the opening of the bolt. I have included a quick/dirty drawing to represent this relationship between the bolt and the striker. There is more to building a firearm correctly than just bolting on parts. Jack Thanks for the insight. I swear I did a forum search before I started this thread and none of the other threads showed up.(need to work on search skills) I can see where your patience with customer service could be running short with the repeated threads. dolp Once again thanks for the insight Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Magineer 9 Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 I have stated in the past and I will state it again; Anytime a customer has a problem with one of my parts, give me a call and I will explain the installation or do what it takes to help them out. I will do my best as long as the customer does not try to use me as their personal information source and monopolize my time. There are literally thousands of the JTE Spring out there and it has a proven track record. There are cases where it has not performed to the customers standard, but that is to be expected from any product, except possibly pussy. In all seriousness, any part that you buy, which is not factory, is a CUSTOM part. Springs are crucial in properly tuning a firearm and when done properly will enhance the reliability and function of the system. The Spring IS NOT for every application, but you the customer needs to know what you are doing and make a knowledgeable decision or seek guidance from a knowledgeable smith. 99% of the people I deal with on the forum or buy my parts, know what they are doing or have the mechanical expertise to either figure it out or seek the guidance and then run with it. It is that 1% who really don't have a clue what the fuck they are doing and probably should not even own a firearm that have a hard time figuring some of this simple shit out, like increasing the tension of a double torsion spring. It's kinda like the old saying, "You couldn't pour piss out of a boot even if it had the instructions written on the bottom of the boot," or words to that effect. Sorry if I have insulated any of you and I promise to work on my people skills in the near future. As Ozzy would say, "Love you all". Later, Jack Talk about rude and insulting. Geez, man. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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