Two Questions About : 16' Barrel / Flashlight?

[GrandLotus 0]

Hello,

 

1) I am looking to convert my gun into a 16inch or less barrel. So, will a 16inch barrel comprimise the reliability of my Saiga12 and does the gas system need to be reworked if the barrel is shortened down to 16inches? I currently am using the stock gas plug on setting two.

 

2) I am drawn between a Surefire x300 and the 200 lumen UTG flashlight defender series from CSS. This light must be able to withstand the recoil of the 12 guage (I believe that both do?). The light will be mounted on my CSS Tri Rail. So, essentialy which light would you chose and why (Pros and Cons will help me make a final decision).

 

EDIT: I am making these modifications so my gun is better able to tackle a HD role.

 

As always thanks for reading and helping me make a more informed decision!

Edited March 24, 2012 by GrandLotus

[Shandlanos 1,470]

First off, big red flag - barrel has to be 18" or longer, or must be registered with the feds as a short-barreled shotgun before shortening the barrel. General rule of thumb is shortest you can go without moving the gas system is 12". You may have to open the gas ports.

 

No idea on the flashlights.

[GrandLotus 0]

Here in Pennsylvania the Shotgun barrel length can go down to 16inches..I think. Ill have to double check this.

[Mullet Man 2,114]

16' (16ft) wouldnt have to be registered as an SBS. It might need to be registered as a DD since it could possibly be considered an anti aircraft weapon. Just saying.

 

Here in Pennsylvania the Shotgun barrel length can go down to 16inches..I think. Ill have to double check this.

 

Its Federal law that 18" is shortest legal shotgun barrel length without registration, not State law.

[Shandlanos 1,470]

Here in Pennsylvania the Shotgun barrel length can go down to 16inches..I think. Ill have to double check this.

 

What Mullet Man said. Federal law governs. It can get a bit confusing because rifle minimum barrel length is 16" and shotgun minimum barrel length is 18".

[GrandLotus 0]

Okay, yes I guess I was confused about this law, so then I would probally do something in the area of 14" or 15".

 

Im still lost about which flashlight to purchase.

[Mr.BlahX3 12]

You can shorten the barrel and have a muzzle device pinned by a gunsmith to make it 18". That's my plan. Anyone know which muzzle devices are the longest?

[dayofruin 425]

Okay, yes I guess I was confused about this law, so then I would probally do something in the area of 14" or 15".

 

Im still lost about which flashlight to purchase.

I think you're lost on your legal barrel length. Anything below 18" has to be registered as a short barreled shotgun. This takes a $200 tax stamp with paperwork from the BATFE and a waiting period of a few months or so. That's IF SBS's are legal in you're state. They are not legal in Indiana.

[GrandLotus 0]

Yes, I had originaly thought that 16 was legal but then since I heard that 18 is legal I figured that I might as well do the tax stamp and go with a couple inches less.

 

Anyone have any luck with the UTG Light that was in the original post?

[AtlSaiga 25]

if you're gonna go with a SBS, why waste it on loosing a couple inches? might as well get down in the 8-12" realm - especially if you're focusing on a home defense gun.

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

Okay, yes I guess I was confused about this law, so then I would probally do something in the area of 14" or 15".

 

Im still lost about which flashlight to purchase.

I think you're lost on your legal barrel length. Anything below 18" has to be registered as a short barreled shotgun. This takes a $200 tax stamp with paperwork from the BATFE and a waiting period of a few months or so. That's IF SBS's are legal in you're state. They are not legal in Indiana.

.... takes engraving as well

[GrandLotus 0]

if you're gonna go with a SBS, why waste it on loosing a couple inches? might as well get down in the 8-12" realm - especially if you're focusing on a home defense gun.

 

I dont want to have to re-do my entire gas system. Staying at 13-15 inches will allow me to not mess around with the gas system. Im new to gunsmithing, but good with tools in general, and dont want to have to spend $100's at a gunsmith who knows nothing about Saiga 12's.

[tialloydragon 1]

You can shorten the barrel and have a muzzle device pinned by a gunsmith to make it 18". That's my plan. Anyone know which muzzle devices are the longest?

 

Tromix Monster break, or the Poly-choke with the Breacher/Vented end are probably two of the longest.

[D.C.MORRISON 494]

i have three of the UTG 200 lumen lights. they are on the large side, take an odd number of batteries "3" . however, they are well made. seem to be focused well. for the price i like them. additionally i have three surefires. two x200 one x300.i use these strictly on pistols. the 300 would serve you well. i now use this one on my s-12 http://www.opticsplanet.net/yukon-sightmark-triple-duty-tactical-flashlight-q5-mount-kit-sm73002k.html

[GrandLotus 0]

Okay, I am opting for the SFx300 and a 13" barrel. Will I have to move my gas system/open ports?

[Wade Pruetz 103]

Okay, I am opting for the SFx300 and a 13" barrel. Will I have to move my gas system/open ports?

 

You are in for a steep learning curve, you may want to check out the NFA section where Tromix ran down about everything you need to know about making an SBS. I have access to a lathe and mill not to mention a few years of building experience, it isn't an easy thing you are wanting to do. You may want to leave the SBS to people who know what they are doing.

[GrandLotus 0]

Thank you. I contacted Tac47 and they said the cost is $400.00. This seemed very pricy. Any recommendations on where to go for quality at a reasonable cost?

[sunnybean 939]

Thank you. I contacted Tac47 and they said the cost is $400.00. This seemed very pricy. Any recommendations on where to go for quality at a reasonable cost?

 

That's a good deal.

 

You're moving into a gun system that is going to cost you $$$. Pay up sucker ;-)

[Shandlanos 1,470]

$400 for fucking with the gas system isn't a bad price. It's a delicate operation, and you really don't want to fuck up.

[GrandLotus 0]

I read up on the SBS tech info thread.

Is there a way for me to DIY and opt for a 14"? This is what I'm leaning to ATM due to a $400 price tag for a 12-13".

Edit: if I do pay up, will my current CSS tri rail still work? :/

Edited March 30, 2012 by GrandLotus

[ewoketeer 35]

I read up on the SBS tech info thread.

Is there a way for me to DIY and opt for a 14"? This is what I'm leaning to ATM due to a $400 price tag for a 12-13".

Edit: if I do pay up, will my current CSS tri rail still work? :/

To give you an idea if the tri rail will work, take a dowel long enough to touch the breech face when the action is closed. Mark the dowel where the muzzle is (this is the length of the barrel). Measure the length of barrel you want from the breech end of the dowel and then compare with the foreend installed. IWI if you have a couple of inches past the forward end of the 'rail, you should be fine, unless wome of the more inform3e members on the forum know differently...

[The_Caged_Bird 474]

As far as lights go, I highly recommend the Pelican 2360. It's not as big around as a regular "tac light" because it takes AA batteries, but at 96 lumens from the white L.E.D. it's cheap to feed and is bright enough to get the job done.

 

To mount it I simply slid it into a 2" section of clear rubber 3/4" hose and mounted it into a regular rail mount. It's survived a few thousand rounds of 12 gauge so far...

[GrandLotus 0]

I read up on the SBS tech info thread.

Is there a way for me to DIY and opt for a 14"? This is what I'm leaning to ATM due to a $400 price tag for a 12-13".

Edit: if I do pay up, will my current CSS tri rail still work? :/

To give you an idea if the tri rail will work, take a dowel long enough to touch the breech face when the action is closed. Mark the dowel where the muzzle is (this is the length of the barrel). Measure the length of barrel you want from the breech end of the dowel and then compare with the foreend installed. IWI if you have a couple of inches past the forward end of the 'rail, you should be fine, unless wome of the more inform3e members on the forum know differently...

As far as lights go, I highly recommend the Pelican 2360. It's not as big around as a regular "tac light" because it takes AA batteries, but at 96 lumens from the white L.E.D. it's cheap to feed and is bright enough to get the job done.

 

To mount it I simply slid it into a 2" section of clear rubber 3/4" hose and mounted it into a regular rail mount. It's survived a few thousand rounds of 12 gauge so far...

 

I am going to do the wooden dowel idea and I have ordered a SFx300 and am waiting for that "Stuff that comes in the mail on the truck" .. as my son likes to call it.

Thanks for all the replies and ideas.

[Wade Pruetz 103]

Thank you. I contacted Tac47 and they said the cost is $400.00. This seemed very pricy. Any recommendations on where to go for quality at a reasonable cost?

 

Put down the crack pipe, since you have never done it how can you reasonably asses how long it should take or how much it should cost. Yeah go ahead and DIY it with your dremel and hand tools tell me how that works out for you!

[GrandLotus 0]

Thank you. I contacted Tac47 and they said the cost is $400.00. This seemed very pricy. Any recommendations on where to go for quality at a reasonable cost?

 

Put down the crack pipe, since you have never done it how can you reasonably asses how long it should take or how much it should cost. Yeah go ahead and DIY it with your dremel and hand tools tell me how that works out for you!

 

Put down the flamethrower.

Thats really how your going to treat other members by calling them crack addicts?

 

Since your curious, I dont see how it should cost $400 to cut my barrel and add threading back to the end of the barrel.

Thanks for your concern.

[Shandlanos 1,470]

Thank you. I contacted Tac47 and they said the cost is $400.00. This seemed very pricy. Any recommendations on where to go for quality at a reasonable cost?

 

Put down the crack pipe, since you have never done it how can you reasonably asses how long it should take or how much it should cost. Yeah go ahead and DIY it with your dremel and hand tools tell me how that works out for you!

 

Put down the flamethrower.

Thats really how your going to treat other members by calling them crack addicts?

 

Since your curious, I dont see how it should cost $400 to cut my barrel and add threading back to the end of the barrel.

Thanks for your concern.

 

Because in all likelihood that is not all that is going to be done. Done properly in a machine shop, your barrel is going to be unpinned and pressed out of the receiver - the RSB and gas block will also be pressed off. The gas holes will be inspected, and tuned/sized to operate at your new barrel length. The lathe will be set up, your barrel will be cut precisely, threaded, and the end portion turned down to the correct diameter. This is after being measured several times, of course. Then, everything will be reassembled on the press, headspaced (probably better than factory), and the barrel pinned back in place.

 

I don't know if Tac47 does anything else along the way - I would imagine they at least touch up the finish, possibly even refinish the entire shotgun. If there's anything else I missed, chime in.

 

Calling you a crack addict was unnecessary.

Edited April 1, 2012 by Shandlanos

[Wade Pruetz 103]

Thank you. I contacted Tac47 and they said the cost is $400.00. This seemed very pricy. Any recommendations on where to go for quality at a reasonable cost?

 

Put down the crack pipe, since you have never done it how can you reasonably asses how long it should take or how much it should cost. Yeah go ahead and DIY it with your dremel and hand tools tell me how that works out for you!

 

Put down the flamethrower.

Thats really how your going to treat other members by calling them crack addicts?

 

Since your curious, I dont see how it should cost $400 to cut my barrel and add threading back to the end of the barrel.

Thanks for your concern.

 

I did show you concern before you got on a public forum accusing a respected vendor of charging to much for a machining operation you know less than nothing about. For your information, to properly do want you want done requires the gun to be disassembled, barrel pressed out, barrel to be cut off square on a lathe, barrel to be turned down to accept threads or cut the threads on a lathe. Then if you require the vendor to reassemble the gun it is now an SBS that requires said vendor to contact the ATF and submit the proper paperwork. Oh that is right you are the guy who didn't even know what the legal length of a shotgun is, 32 posts in and you already know what machine time and services should cost. I don't know what your time is worth but that seems like a fair price to me, oh thats right I have done this very operation several times I know exactly how long it will take. Do a little research and know of what you speak before making a further ass of yourself!

Edited April 1, 2012 by NinerRider

[Fallschirmjager667 729]

he is obviously very new to saigas and gunsmithing, so how is he supposed to know what a reasonable price for gas system work is? if it is $400 for a cut and rethread, which i doubt it is, i'll agree that's fucking crazy, but it would be a safe bet to assume that also includes moving the gas block back and in that case it's a very reasonable price