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I have read many reviews about this optic, I am thinking of buying one, but the price went from 500 bucks to 600 bucks. I like the fact that it is calibrated for the 5.45, but now Im not sure I want one for 600 bucks.

 

Im thinking instead of getting 4xPSOP instead. How is this optic on your 5.45s? Im going to get about 600 back from a tax return in about a month. I like the idea of getting a $200 scope over a $600 scope, but I really like the reviews I have read on the Kashtan.

 

Also if anyone owns both and could weigh in that would be great.If many people here think the kashtan is worth the price, then I may go ahead and pull the trigger. Just want to make the right decision.

 

If there is anywhere cheaper to get a kashtan please let me know. I checked Kalinka, but they raised their prices.

 

Any advice or insight would be great! Thanks.

 

Also is the 3.5x21 calibrated for 5.45? I thought it was only calibrated for 7.62x39?

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I have read many reviews about this optic, I am thinking of buying one, but the price went from 500 bucks to 600 bucks. I like the fact that it is calibrated for the 5.45, but now Im not sure I want one for 600 bucks.

 

Im thinking instead of getting 4xPSOP instead. How is this optic on your 5.45s? Im going to get about 600 back from a tax return in about a month. I like the idea of getting a $200 scope over a $600 scope, but I really like the reviews I have read on the Kashtan.

 

Also if anyone owns both and could weigh in that would be great.If many people here think the kashtan is worth the price, then I may go ahead and pull the trigger. Just want to make the right decision.

 

If there is anywhere cheaper to get a kashtan please let me know. I checked Kalinka, but they raised their prices.

 

Any advice or insight would be great! Thanks.

 

Also is the 3.5x21 calibrated for 5.45? I thought it was only calibrated for 7.62x39?

 

Well, "worth it" is pretty relative and depends on what you're looking for in terms of features.

 

I've used a kashtan a bit. It's nice, but I wouldn't pay more than $300 or maybe $400 for one.

 

But, and this is huge here - I'm not particularly fond of the dragunov style rangefinder or stuff like that. I don't like how high it sits. Also, $600 or so is about my beginning point for an optic, so I have a lot more options to look at. So, for me, the russian optics don't offer me a great deal compared to other product lines.

 

If you really want the ranging reticle.. if that is a "must have" feature - I'd say go with the kashtan. You're better off with something optimized for 5.45.

 

If the ranging reticle is NOT a must have feature. If other factors - like cheek weld, optical clarity, or warranty and so on are important at all - that same $600 gets you into a Leupold VX-R 1.25-4x with a milling reticle. With practice, you can be just as fast as with the dragunov reticle.

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PO 3.5x21P is calibrated for a number of optics but by far the most common one in the States is 5.45. I've had a 7.62x39 in the past and there are one or two floating around that have a different set of range lines on them but most will be 5.45

 

It also depends on how you look at the value of the optic. Kashtan is the Russian ACOG and is in service today with various units. It's a high quality optic with excellent glass quality, tritium for low light and an amber lense color to reduce eye strain. Believe it or not but if you take Kashtan to the field under wide lighting conditions that amber coating works extremely well. It also helps contrast as the ambient light goes down. Kashtan has passed some tough field trials, the Russian army doesn't buy junk in my experience.

 

Kashtan is designed for the AK74 by NPZ. It is the real deal...all that for $500-600 bucks. To me it's hard to beat but I like AK's and I have a lot of experience using them.

 

If you are just going to the range to plink or have fun then a $200 option might be better, like a POSP 4x24 even though they are not 5.45 calibrated. It doesn't really matter for what most of us do with these optics anyway.

 

As far as cheekweld or height go, in my experience by the time you add in a suitable mount and rings, many Western scopes will be as higher or higher than dedicated AK optics (in general, I'm sure there exceptions).

 

Warranty is trickier but since you deal with a distributor first in the states most defects will be discovered when you open the box and you can probably return it to them then and there. I personally have not had an optic break during use over the past 7 years, the few problems I've had have been out of the box.

 

For me Kashtan is just about the best combloc optic on the market but my criteria might be different than other people.

 

 

Z

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Thanks for your help guys. I really like the Kashtan, its tritium instead of battery operated, but I must say that I like the PO 3.5x21 reticle better. The problem is that it weighs a ton (from what I have read), so I think that I may just get the PO instead of the Kashtan. Thanks for your help, can't wait till I get my tax return!

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It also depends on how you look at the value of the optic. Kashtan is the Russian ACOG and is in service today with various units. It's a high quality optic with excellent glass quality, tritium for low light and an amber lense color to reduce eye strain.

...

As far as cheekweld or height go, in my experience by the time you add in a suitable mount and rings, many Western scopes will be as higher or higher than dedicated AK optics (in general, I'm sure there exceptions).

 

Hey TX; I know you're a combloc optic lover and all. I can certainly respect that. I'm an optics geek myself. I haven't played with the range of combloc optics you have (I've enjoyed your info and reviews though! good stuff) but I've taken a few for a spin.

 

Personally, I wouldn't rate combloc optic clarity as "excellent" - but that is all in what you get used to. But it is certainly good, at any rate.

 

You're sort of right about the mount/rings issue, but that is only if you go with a picatinny side mount. That is how I got the experience with Russian optics in the past on my AKs.. didn't make much sense to go with anything else, because you couldn't get around the high sight plane. But there are a few options out there now, and more on the horizon, that will mount optics lower.

 

Do you know off hand if the Obzor has any sort of tint to the glass? This optic sounds interesting to me, and I've been thinking of picking one up to play with.

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i don't have any experience with the kashtan but i do with the psop. i have to say the psop is a lot of scope for a little money. i got mine a while back with a psl but don't use it with that gun. i just put it on my 5.45 and for a low power scope it works great for me. it is a great utility scope if you have several ak's and just want something to throw on them when you are going to the range. they are really easy to zero quickly. i would say that the glass quality isn't on the same level as some higher end scopes but it is better than you will get on anything else in its price range that is as tough as the psop is. if the kashtan is the Russian equivalent to an acog and it is calibrated just for the 5.45 then it might be worth the extra money, but i don't know the first thing about it. good luck with what ever you choose.

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Hey TX; I know you're a combloc optic lover and all. I can certainly respect that. I'm an optics geek myself. I haven't played with the range of combloc optics you have (I've enjoyed your info and reviews though! good stuff) but I've taken a few for a spin.

 

Personally, I wouldn't rate combloc optic clarity as "excellent" - but that is all in what you get used to. But it is certainly good, at any rate.

 

You're sort of right about the mount/rings issue, but that is only if you go with a picatinny side mount. That is how I got the experience with Russian optics in the past on my AKs.. didn't make much sense to go with anything else, because you couldn't get around the high sight plane. But there are a few options out there now, and more on the horizon, that will mount optics lower.

 

Do you know off hand if the Obzor has any sort of tint to the glass? This optic sounds interesting to me, and I've been thinking of picking one up to play with.

 

Obzor is definitely tinted, the purple is to bring contrast to the reticule. I believe it works as designed, I don't seem to lose targets in the background more than other optics and the reticule so far has always been very easy to acquire.

 

No filter:

1P63-Reticule-Voron.jpg

 

With filter:

PK1-ObzorReticuleFilter01.JPG

 

 

 

 

I hear your points on combloc quality but that's where I'm on the fence. I'm all for believing that ACOGs have the best glass and really don't see why they wouldn't, but when I compare them side by side to PSO-1, Kashtan and others I don't see a dramatic difference...not even much of a difference at all to be honest. Contrary to popular belief I don't drink Russian optic koolaid...and maybe I'm blind but when I hear people say that optic X is better than Russian optic Y honestly I don't doubt it....I just don't see much of a difference when I compare them to each other. To me ACOGs are better than some combloc optics, some comblocs are better than ACOGs.

 

Hope that makes sense. I am definitely a fan of combloc optics but believe it or not I try to be as impartial as I can. I'm just not one of those people that believe because it's made in the USA or Russia or anywhere else that it's the best. I want to have some evidence and some basis for comparison. A long time ago everyone said combloc optics sucked so I got a few to see what the hubbub was about.

 

7 years later I'm still trying to figure out why they suck.

 

 

You raise excellent points and it's an honest debate which is great (as opposed to the 'buy an Aimpoint' argument which has gotten pretty lame). I'm not sold on either kind of optic overall and I have always appreciate learning as much as I can. beer.gif

 

 

Z

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Obzor is definitely tinted, the purple is to bring contrast to the reticule. I believe it works as designed, I don't seem to lose targets in the background more than other optics and the reticule so far has always been very easy to acquire.

 

That looks really, really nice. Seems like the perfect level of tint, too. A good tint like that is definitely needed to help keep the reticle visible.

 

I assume it still washes out though when pointed at a good, bright light source? That is one of the main things keeping me away from tritium based optics if I can't cowitness it. Though I have to admit, the Obzor is intriguing.

 

Any chance the optic can be removed from the mount? Even if I have to put together my own mount, I'd like to try to get it lower to the bore if I were to use one. The height is really the only thing stopping me from giving it a spin.. the RS Regulate mount has spoiled me for a perfect weld on my AK.

 

I hear your points on combloc quality but that's where I'm on the fence. I'm all for believing that ACOGs have the best glass and really don't see why they wouldn't, but when I compare them side by side to PSO-1, Kashtan and others I don't see a dramatic difference...not even much of a difference at all to be honest. Contrary to popular belief I don't drink Russian optic koolaid...and maybe I'm blind but when I hear people say that optic X is better than Russian optic Y honestly I don't doubt it....I just don't see much of a difference when I compare them to each other. To me ACOGs are better than some combloc optics, some comblocs are better than ACOGs.

 

Makes perfect sense to me. ACOGs are nice, but I like them more for durability than the glass, and I'll agree that Russian glass can be just as good. On most guns, ACOGs sit too high, and have all the ergonomic issues I don't like about the combloc stuff, little - if any - appreciable difference in glass; and a higher price tag.

 

My "excellent" for glass is Hensoldt and Swarovski. I spent a lot of time behind a pair of those, and it doesn't take long before using anything else feels like you have dust in your eyes to some degree or another. But, the level of expense there is orders of magnitude higher than typical combloc stuff, and quite far above even pricey ACOG models, so you have to expect that, at least in some way. But I've found that diminishing returns takes over with this stuff very quickly. In the end, as good as they were, I found the added expense over US Optics stuff to not really be worth it to me, so I sold them. I sometimes regret selling that Hensoldt though.. but when I do, I just go fondle a few of the rifles I bought with the money I recouped.

 

7 years later I'm still trying to figure out why they suck.

 

That's pretty funny.

 

You raise excellent points and it's an honest debate which is great (as opposed to the 'buy an Aimpoint' argument which has gotten pretty lame). I'm not sold on either kind of optic overall and I have always appreciate learning as much as I can. beer.gif

Z

 

Same here. The way I look at it, optics are tools - and like all tools, each one has a place and function. Thanks again for sharing your experience with this stuff.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I don't believe the Obzor can be easily taken off the mount and so far I haven't seen it wash out under any lighting conditions. I think it's possible to have a combination of lighting and background coloration that could possibly wash it out but I think that would be rare indeed.

 

Thanks for perspective on using the Hensoldt and Swarovski's. I would love to get my hands on some really high end optics but ultimately I am probably always going to be a 'combat shooter' and use optics more aligned for that role. They sound amazing and I'd love to use them in the field to see how well they perform. I'm a big believer in quality and have no doubt they are the cat's meow :beer:

 

 

 

 

 

Z

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