In the AK vs. AR Comparisons...

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

An AR wronged my family, we trusted it and let it move in when it was having trouble, we opened our home and hearts to it. The list of bad things it did to repay us follows:

• told my wife what my guns REALLY cost
  

 

The rest of that shit is bad enough, but this is truly fucked up!!

[G O B 3,516]

Disregarding any argument about reliability, caliber - non of that. The truth is in the $$$

I built 2 AK's for under $400 for the pair. 4 20rd mags $50, 200 rounds $50..........................................Total $500 2 guns,4 mags,200rds.

 

I can build a decent AR for about $500. No mags. No ammo...................................................................Total $500 1 gun.

[preparehandbook 326]

Disregarding any argument about reliability, caliber - non of that. The truth is in the $$$

I built 2 AK's for under $400 for the pair. 4 20rd mags $50, 200 rounds $50..........................................Total $500 2 guns,4 mags,200rds.

 

I can build a decent AR for about $500. No mags. No ammo...................................................................Total $500 1 gun.

 

so very true...

 

I am currently building an almost entirely plastic AR and I think it's going to settle out at about $650. True, it'll be less than 4 pounds and probably capable of safely killing marmots, but I could have built an awesomely accurate AK for the price in any one of several calibers.

 

And this brings up another thought...

 

Notice how many calibers AR nuts have come up with to "fix" the 5.56's lack of performance? Very few people are trying to come up with an effective intermediate power round to replace 7.62 x 39 because it is the definition of an assualt rifle cartridge.

 

Edited April 13, 2012 by preparehandbook

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

Piecing together a Plumcrazy AR, prepareandbook?

 

That pic is disturbing. Better get these guys up on the line...

 

 

And deploy the most vicious and sneaky among us, naturally...

 

 

Edited April 13, 2012 by post-apocalyptic

[hutchsaiga 93]

If you get under a 4 pound rifle even with a polymer lower. You must not know very much about rifles.

 

It'll be 5.5lbs at the least

[Strawdawg 1]

If you get under a 4 pound rifle even with a polymer lower. You must not know very much about rifles.

 

It'll be 5.5lbs at the least

 

No kidding...More likely more than 6 lbs

 

Here is a comparison...

 

The AR in 6.8 weighs 8.25 lbs with scope, foregrip, and a few rounds in the mag. It is about a half inch longer with the difference in the pull length. It weighs about 6.5 lbs without scope or mag and would be hard to get much lighter than that. Built as a truck gun that swings out the window easily when needed.

 

The Saiga weighs 7.5 lbs with an empty mag.

 

Both weighed this morning on my postage scale just as pictured.

 

You can always tell the guys that are gun guys in these posts as opposed to the ones that only own an AR, or an AK, or nothing at all, I suspect.

 

There have been several factual posts in this thread which is a bit surprising, to me, anyway.

 

Today, in semi auto mode, I consider the AR to be just as reliable as the AK as I have a few thousand rds down the pipe out of mine without a jam. In full auto, the AK wins hands down. I never bother cleaning until I have several hundred rounds thru one. Keeping them wet is the key.

 

In accuracy, parts availability, calibers, etc. The AR comes out on top. The great thing about the AR is that one can build or buy a number of different uppers and swap them onto a single lower which makes the price of ownership come down...I suspect most of us keep building lowers, tho The build 'em yourself is also attractive and helps bring the price down.

 

The AK variants are cheap, tho not as cheap as they once were, reliable as well, have much cheaper ammo (plinking ammo) and are a blast to shoot. I enjoy them more than the ARs because every time I pull the trigger on my 6.8, I think there went $0.80-1.60 out the barrel. Hopefully Tula will pick the round up as stated. The 5.56 is a lot cheaper, but, still about 50% more than a 1000 rds of 7.62 x39

 

For fun, I grab the Saiga every time.

 

7.62 x 39 works great in an AR with good accuracy. This cheap ammo is not the best, imo, as it is dirty and I suspect it will take more frequent cleaning. I think a .204 is next on my list.

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

Guys, I'm pretty sure prepareandbook is kidding about his "4 lb rifle".

[Joseph 141]

M-16 are great for when your on you're period,

 

leave war fighting to the real guns, AK100 series are great. but there's also a lot of other good weapons. and none of them are DGI

 

people are running away from D.G.I like the plauge

[preparehandbook 326]

I am not kidding in the least.

 

there has been an ongoing effort on some **cough** AR forums **cough** to build the lightest AR ever.

 

Most builds come in a bit over 4 pounds because they won't take the last few steps to really reduce weight.

 

Tromix built a 3.5 pound rifle in 17 Mach IV and it could have shed an ounce or 2 more, this is probably one of the lightest built so far.

 

Here is my recipe I'm fiddling with:

• Cavarms receiver (one piece stock, pistol grip, receiver... the current lightest setup out there by several ounces)
  
• carbon 15 upper, no deflector, dust shield or FBA
  
• Plum crazy composite FCG
  
• custom gas block
  
• custom 16" pencil barrel, no brake/flash hider
  
• lightened or aluminum bolt carrier/ buffer combo (haven't decided)
  
• free float carbon fiber forend
  
• poly "iron sights"
  

The only remaining metal parts on a build like this are the BCG, Barrel, springs and pins. and in this config 4 pounds is fairly easy. Where it gets hard is keeping the cost down. If I wanted to spend a ton more I could go with a steel lined carbon fiber barrel but it would cost 1.5 times as much as the rest of the rifle combined. I could also do the short-barrel-pinned-flash-hider thing, but I just don't like that route.

 

I've shot a 4.25 AR and it was pretty addictive, just the right super-soaker feel that a wussy assed woodchuck gun should have.

 

I used to build ARs when I gunsmithed full time, most folks ordered bull barreled "varmint guns" or over accessorized "tactical" monstrocities. I found the AR to be profitable and easy to work on, but just too heavy for what it is.

 

"If you get under a 4 pound rifle even with a polymer lower. You must not know very much about rifles.

 

It'll be 5.5lbs at the least"

 

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/27283-10-years-of-tromix-prototypesprojects-and-misc-junk-pics/

 

Well, I guess Tony Rumore "must not know very much about rifles"

[chevyman097 2,579]

I like pie.

[thehun 20]

The only thing that sucks about lightweight ARs is that...unless your only goal is to plink and varmint..its money down the drain

[Strawdawg 1]

If you carry one walking thru the brush, light is nice. Or, if you are like me, and want to swing one out the window in a hurry to get a shot at something that is not supposed to be there, whether it is a coyote, hog, bobcat, or feral dogs....then light and short is nice.....faster I can get it on target, the better. Of course, like most, I have more than one toy as well....

[preparehandbook 326]

The only thing that sucks about lightweight ARs is that...unless your only goal is to plink and varmint..its money down the drain

 

It's really just a show piece, though I will use it for marmots.

 

I do the odd custo build here and there and I have found that several guns attract a lot of customers.

• My draco, close to stock, insanely fun to shoot, and a real tack driver that often outshoots folk's full sized AKs
  
• My Saiga 12s
  
• A kit built PSL
  

what folks keep asking about is an AR, I've held off because I used to build tons of them and really am not a fan of the platform.

 

I can't really wow people by adding $700 in picatinny-crap as that is what every other AR looks like, also I don't make money from accessories they can buy themselves. So I decided to build a light AR.

 

The last one was a 4.8 pound cav arms/carbon 15 hybrid that really impressed people and attracted business, but finally someone offered me a bunch more than it cost to build, so I'm making a replacement.

 

I like pie.

 

Pie is awesome!

 

we should have a favorite flavor poll.

1. Apple
   
2. peach
   
3. cherry
   

[preparehandbook 326]

The only thing that sucks about lightweight ARs is that...unless your only goal is to plink and varmint..its money down the drain

 

Are you thinking the lifespan is too short?

 

I'll conced that it is shorter than an aluminum AR, but not hugel so.

 

Many of the polymer components are stronger and dissapate heat faster than aluminum and poly FCG parts have done very well in the Steyr AUG and the P90, to mostly plastic guns with good lifespans.

 

It is true that you can actually feel some recoil in a sub 5 pound AR, but nothing harsh.

 

The lack of FBA does require decent ammo, on this one I am contemplating a side charging handle, which will save an ounce or so too.

[Joseph 141]

Well the gun your talking about is a great theoretical build for a display piece or range toy but it is no longer in the realm of hunting/combat rifle

 

durability on a gun like that is going to be very low.

 

even mild combat stress is likely to break that gun. and without a forward assist or decent barrel forget about it.

 

and drop tests/real world stresses will tear that gun apart

 

i mean an Ak 47 is a gun you can hang a bayonet off and hack someone to pieces with and then throw it at concrete a few dozen times and still full auto an entire mag, that's battle durability. I don't do that with my ak 47's but its nice to know they can handle that.

 

you're ar 15 build is going to melt in the rain like a gingerbread house

Edited April 14, 2012 by ZombieJefferson

[preparehandbook 326]

Well the gun your talking about is a great theoretical build for a display piece or range toy but it is no longer in the realm of hunting/combat rifle

 

Based on what real world experience exactly? This will be my second carbon AR build and the 5th one I've owned. I used my first couple extensively for coyote and scrawny California deer.

 

durability on a gun like that is going to be very low.

 

Many of the synthetic components are significantly stronger than the aluminum ones on a stock AR, the weakest portion of the assembly is the rear receiver ring, which Is why I went cav arms, the other brands crack there too easy.

 

even mild combat stress is likely to break that gun. and without a forward assist or decent barrel forget about it.

 

The "pencil barrel" I am using is the exact profile of the original M16, not terribly heavy, but plenty adequate. I am going with a reciprocating side charging handle which eliminates the need for a FBA (as well as the crappy OEM charging handle)

 

and drop tests/real world stresses will tear that gun apart

 

No more than they do a normal AR. ARs are known to break when sat upon or handled roughly, a good carbon AR is less durable than an AUG but easily as durable as a Kel Tec SU series (I speak from the experience of having broken a Kel Tec and a couple ARs)

 

i mean an Ak 47 is a gun you can hang a bayonet off and hack someone to pieces with and then throw it at concrete a few dozen times and still full auto an entire mag, that's battle durability. I don't do that with my ak 47's but its nice to know they can handle that.

 

In my experience an AR of any ilk is not suited for such use, they are generally a fragile weapon and bayonet use routinely results in a bent barrel or cracked upper. Anything 5.56 should be considered a glorified squirrel gun. IMHO the G3 and AK are the only really capable rifle platforms with the FAL being a distant 3rd.

 

you're ar 15 build is going to melt in the rain like a gingerbread house

 

Probably true.

 

These iare all the same things everybody said when the glock came out, and the AUG, and the P90.

Edited April 14, 2012 by preparehandbook

[devildogdakota 804]

The only thing that sucks about lightweight ARs is that...unless your only goal is to plink and varmint..its money down the drain

 

It's really just a show piece, though I will use it for marmots.

 

I do the odd custo build here and there and I have found that several guns attract a lot of customers.

• My draco, close to stock, insanely fun to shoot, and a real tack driver that often outshoots folk's full sized AKs
  
• My Saiga 12s
  
• A kit built PSL
  

what folks keep asking about is an AR, I've held off because I used to build tons of them and really am not a fan of the platform.

 

I can't really wow people by adding $700 in picatinny-crap as that is what every other AR looks like, also I don't make money from accessories they can buy themselves. So I decided to build a light AR.

 

The last one was a 4.8 pound cav arms/carbon 15 hybrid that really impressed people and attracted business, but finally someone offered me a bunch more than it cost to build, so I'm making a replacement.

 

I like pie.

 

Pie is awesome!

 

we should have a favorite flavor poll.

1. Apple
   
2. peach
   
3. cherry
   

 

Hair pie is my favorite.

[DrDyno 12]

It is always a pleasure to be in the presence of folks who know their subject and... as EXCITING as the topic of HOW TO BUILD A REALLY LIGHT WEIGHT SQUIRREL GUN is... why not start your own thread?

 

Allow me to respectfully remind some of you that THIS thread is (was) about the comparison of the AK and AR platforms.

[Ninhydrin 0]

If you're complaining about the increased weight of the AK and its ammunition, compared to the AR15 and 5.56, then that is a user issue and not the firearm's flaw. Go hit up a gym.

[Joseph 141]

If you're complaining about the increased weight of the AK and its ammunition, compared to the AR15 and 5.56, then that is a user issue and not the firearm's flaw. Go hit up a gym.

 

yeah or just get a saiga .223 or ak 74. i like being able to have less recoil and more ammo, but i also like durability and simplicity.

 

the whole AK VS AR debate normally deteriorates into an argument of ballistics when both guns can easily be adapted to handle whatever rounds you want

[preparehandbook 326]

If you're complaining about the increased weight of the AK and its ammunition, compared to the AR15 and 5.56, then that is a user issue and not the firearm's flaw. Go hit up a gym.

 

Who complained about the weight of AK's or their ammo?

 

An AK is an effective weapon and worth carrying, I don't find them particularly heavy.

 

Somebodies been thread-skimming.

 

And as to thread drift... yes, this thread has suffered some serious drift.

 

But how much can be said about the original subject?

 

AKs are awesome rifles, robust, easy to operate, pleasing to the eye and encompassing all that makes a fine combat weapon.

 

ARs are a sad, flimsy, disgrace that is better at wasting money than wasting bad guys.

 

 

And to further respond to MR ALLBOLD LARGEFONT (Who seems to be posting very little on this thread except to say that it has gotten off subject)

 

This is yet another AK vs AR thread ON AN AK FORUM!

 

WTF do you think will be the outcome?

 

ARe we all going to read a couple of lame ass comparisons that have been rehashed ad nauseum and suddenly all sell our Saigas?

Are we going to trade our sturdy steel magazines for olive drab plastic ones with a little pull strap at the bottom and lego-snaps to link them together?

Will we suddenly forsake the sound engineering of mother russia and instead adopt that bastard child of appropriation committees and focus groups?

 

NO, We are going to all spend some quality time staring at our screens and in between games of Angry Birds we will post trash about ARs, we will gather together to talk shit about the AR, a rifle that is an antithesis to our common love, the Saiga. We are all going to waste time that could be spent shooting, drinking beer, teasing the cat, surfing porn, or any of a vast number of more valuable pursuits.

 

So pardon the fuck out of me if I got off topic and answered posts regarding specifics of lightweight ARs, I guess that is too far off the subject of comparison. I guess I misread the title as AR vs AK.... rather than standard weight AR vs AK I guess getting too far into the particulars of either make is detracting from the AR bashing we are all here for.

 

Yes I will freely admit that I play with ARs too, it makes me feel pretty dirty (like a direct impingment gas system.. ) and more than a litle ashamed, but like a beer drinker who enjoys the occasional hard lemonade... or should I dare to say....zima.... I do dabble in the nasty little lego guns that are ARs.

 

but fear not comrades! I am truly loyal to the AKs, romanian, russian, polish.... Minty or well worn, stock or heavily modified.... factory rivetted or home-screw-built.. I live them all.

[Joseph 141]

i think the screw concept describes the AR 15 perfectly, first you screw in your barrel, then your stock, then your grip, then your FF railed hand guard, them all your tacticool rail lasers and shit, and then after screwing your rifle that many times, you go into battle and then it screws you! (jamms, shitty rounds, garbage magazines, a battery powered iron sights)

Edited April 14, 2012 by ZombieJefferson

[preparehandbook 326]

AR's need all those little gadgets and gizmos to work.

 

I have it on the solid authority of a friend who plays a lot of video games that with an ACOG, cowitness optic, laser, forward vertical grip, rangefinder, bipod, bottle opener and picatinny mounted dildo you can be gauranteed to make 1,000 yard headshots from the hip... which according to him will "blow the guys head completely off"

 

Without all these googas the weapon will lose so much velocity that it will experience simulatneous FTF, FTE, slamfires, cookoffs, and anal leakage.

 

CONVERSATION HEARD AT SUPER OPERATOR TRAINING CAMP:

 

AR guy: "I have to practice constant class 1, 2, 5, and 7 failure drills in case my USB bayonet falls off my cartridge mounted blutooth picatinny rail causing a jam"

 

AK guy: "Jam? isn't that the stuff you put on sandwiches?"

[chevyman097 2,579]

I just ate the best damn bourbon cake that was moist as a whore on prom night and it had some kind of whipped icing. Damn that shit was good. I'm actually feeling the after effects, I over did it. Ughhhh so fat. ohwell. This beer is washing it down nicely.

[preparehandbook 326]

I just ate the best damn bourbon cake that was moist as a whore on prom night and it had some kind of whipped icing. Damn that shit was good. I'm actually feeling the after effects, I over did it. Ughhhh so fat. ohwell. This beer is washing it down nicely.

 

was it a store bought or homemade?

 

Tell us more about this cake!

[DrDyno 12]

...And as to thread drift... yes, this thread has suffered some serious drift.

 

But how much can be said about the original subject?

AKs are awesome rifles, robust, easy to operate, pleasing to the eye and encompassing all that makes a fine combat weapon.

ARs are a sad, flimsy, disgrace that is better at wasting money than wasting bad guys.

 

And to further respond to MR ALLBOLD LARGEFONT (Who seems to be posting very little on this thread except to say that it has gotten off subject)

 

This is yet another AK vs AR thread ON AN AK FORUM!

 

WTF do you think will be the outcome?

 

ARe we all going to read a couple of lame ass comparisons that have been rehashed ad nauseum and suddenly all sell our Saigas?

Are we going to trade our sturdy steel magazines for olive drab plastic ones with a little pull strap at the bottom and lego-snaps to link them together?

Will we suddenly forsake the sound engineering of mother russia and instead adopt that bastard child of appropriation committees and focus groups?

 

NO, We are going to all spend some quality time staring at our screens and in between games of Angry Birds we will post trash about ARs, we will gather together to talk shit about the AR, a rifle that is an antithesis to our common love, the Saiga. We are all going to waste time that could be spent shooting, drinking beer, teasing the cat, surfing porn, or any of a vast number of more valuable pursuits.

 

So pardon the fuck out of me if I got off topic and answered posts regarding specifics of lightweight ARs, I guess that is too far off the subject of comparison. I guess I misread the title as AR vs AK.... rather than standard weight AR vs AK I guess getting too far into the particulars of either make is detracting from the AR bashing we are all here for.

 

Yes I will freely admit that I play with ARs too, it makes me feel pretty dirty (like a direct impingment gas system.. ) and more than a litle ashamed, but like a beer drinker who enjoys the occasional hard lemonade... or should I dare to say....zima.... I do dabble in the nasty little lego guns that are ARs.

 

but fear not comrades! I am truly loyal to the AKs, romanian, russian, polish.... Minty or well worn, stock or heavily modified.... factory rivetted or home-screw-built.. I live them all.

 

Well, Mr. Handbook, this "MR ALLBOLD LARGEFONT (Who seems to be posting very little on this thread except to say that it has gotten off subject)," started this thread and was immediately flamed for a subject that's now well north of 80 responses... far more than, "WTF do you think will be the outcome?"

 

By the way, your input has been both astute and appreciated, and you redeemed yourself well, with: "Yes I will freely admit that I play with ARs too, it makes me feel pretty dirty (like a direct impingment gas system.. ) and more than a litle ashamed, but like a beer drinker who enjoys the occasional hard lemonade... or should I dare to say....zima.... I do dabble in the nasty little lego guns that are ARs. but fear not comrades! I am truly loyal to the AKs, romanian, russian, polish.... Minty or well worn, stock or heavily modified.... factory rivetted or home-screw-built.. I live them all."

Edited April 14, 2012 by DrDyno

[preparehandbook 326]

...And as to thread drift... yes, this thread has suffered some serious drift.

 

But how much can be said about the original subject?

AKs are awesome rifles, robust, easy to operate, pleasing to the eye and encompassing all that makes a fine combat weapon.

ARs are a sad, flimsy, disgrace that is better at wasting money than wasting bad guys.

 

And to further respond to MR ALLBOLD LARGEFONT (Who seems to be posting very little on this thread except to say that it has gotten off subject)

 

This is yet another AK vs AR thread ON AN AK FORUM!

 

WTF do you think will be the outcome?

 

ARe we all going to read a couple of lame ass comparisons that have been rehashed ad nauseum and suddenly all sell our Saigas?

Are we going to trade our sturdy steel magazines for olive drab plastic ones with a little pull strap at the bottom and lego-snaps to link them together?

Will we suddenly forsake the sound engineering of mother russia and instead adopt that bastard child of appropriation committees and focus groups?

 

NO, We are going to all spend some quality time staring at our screens and in between games of Angry Birds we will post trash about ARs, we will gather together to talk shit about the AR, a rifle that is an antithesis to our common love, the Saiga. We are all going to waste time that could be spent shooting, drinking beer, teasing the cat, surfing porn, or any of a vast number of more valuable pursuits.

 

So pardon the fuck out of me if I got off topic and answered posts regarding specifics of lightweight ARs, I guess that is too far off the subject of comparison. I guess I misread the title as AR vs AK.... rather than standard weight AR vs AK I guess getting too far into the particulars of either make is detracting from the AR bashing we are all here for.

 

Yes I will freely admit that I play with ARs too, it makes me feel pretty dirty (like a direct impingment gas system.. ) and more than a litle ashamed, but like a beer drinker who enjoys the occasional hard lemonade... or should I dare to say....zima.... I do dabble in the nasty little lego guns that are ARs.

 

but fear not comrades! I am truly loyal to the AKs, romanian, russian, polish.... Minty or well worn, stock or heavily modified.... factory rivetted or home-screw-built.. I live them all.

 

Well, Mr. Handbook, this "MR ALLBOLD LARGEFONT (Who seems to be posting very little on this thread except to say that it has gotten off subject)," started this thread and was immediately flamed for a subject that's now well north of 80 responses... far more than, "WTF do you think will be the outcome?"

 

By the way, your input has been both astute and appreciated, and you redeemed yourself well, with: "Yes I will freely admit that I play with ARs too, it makes me feel pretty dirty (like a direct impingment gas system.. ) and more than a litle ashamed, but like a beer drinker who enjoys the occasional hard lemonade... or should I dare to say....zima.... I do dabble in the nasty little lego guns that are ARs. but fear not comrades! I am truly loyal to the AKs, romanian, russian, polish.... Minty or well worn, stock or heavily modified.... factory rivetted or home-screw-built.. I live them all."

 

I love this thread!

 

I feel it has been a much fairer discussion of the 2 platforms than many times it has been gone over.

 

Though I would have come across looking a lot smarter if I had remebered you started it.

 

But.... "type first, look like an idiot later" is kinda my MO.

[chevyman097 2,579]

I just ate the best damn bourbon cake that was moist as a whore on prom night and it had some kind of whipped icing. Damn that shit was good. I'm actually feeling the after effects, I over did it. Ughhhh so fat. ohwell. This beer is washing it down nicely.

 

was it a store bought or homemade?

 

Tell us more about this cake!

 

Oh it was definable home made. I do not have a taste for this thing people call store bought cake. Once you have the real thing you just cant go back.

[preparehandbook 326]

Ok, I'll put up a serious response.

 

I've got a fair amount of gunsmithing time and some trigger time in combat. I've been at the wrong end of an both an AR and an RPK due to friendly fire. I have carried the CETME platform in hostilities (I'm showing my age there) but never the AR or AK, though many I know have.

 

Facing these weapon platforms from the receiving end they are both very effective and deadly at realistic ranges and a serious threat waaaay beyond those ranges, IMHO they are both sturdy enough with the AK being obviously a bit more rugged.

 

The key difference I observed between the two in combat was full auto controllability. It is significanlty easier to control the AR in full auto and when a 3 round burst FCG comes into play that benefit is enhanced further. This assumes proper training, all the controls on an AR must be learned and if that must be done in a hurry or the user does not take it seriously, fumbly mistakes result.

 

For sporting uses the ARs lightweight and good ergonomics make it a pleasant weapon. Easy to work on, low recoil, easy to pack long distances. It's also has fairly quiet controls, racking the bolt on an AK is hard to do quietly. Also it's a decent hunting weapon within the limits of it's cartridge, I've taken smaller hogs with 5.56 (under 150#s) and plenty of small california deer but I wouldn't consider it a good elk gun except for post SHTF. Currently, worldwide, more caribou are taken with .22 than any other cartridge so if SHTF I'd make do with whatever. Post SHTF I feel it's greatest weakness would be mediocre barrier penetration.

 

The AK platform is burly and I feel I can rely on it better, I'm not so afraid that if I fall on it I'll break it. But for me I have to work a little harder to be more accurate with it when the range get's longer. I also like the harder hit of the 7.62 x39, but it's still not an elk gun (that's what my mosin is for). I've hunted the same animals I hunted with 5.56 more times with the AK and I like being able to take a sloppier shoulder shot knowing I will push the upper leg bone fragments into the chest cavity, more meat damage, but a very quick kill.

 

The AK platform is my go to gun for most any emergencies or SHTF, but if I had to rely on an AR I would and wouldn't feel undergunned. So yeah, my heart is with the AK, but they are both pretty sweet guns.

 

This is purely the personal opinion of an old man and only applicable to me.

 

I just ate the best damn bourbon cake that was moist as a whore on prom night and it had some kind of whipped icing. Damn that shit was good. I'm actually feeling the after effects, I over did it. Ughhhh so fat. ohwell. This beer is washing it down nicely.

 

was it a store bought or homemade?

 

Tell us more about this cake!

 

Oh it was definable home made. I do not have a taste for this thing people call store bought cake. Once you have the real thing you just cant go back.

 

Post the recipe!

[Lone Eagle 839]

Well, I have both, have shot both, and both have their place. If it was AOW, SHTF, or the Russians/Chinese/Muzzies invading, then the AK is my go-to platform. As concluded after WW2, most engagements happened at 150 yds or less. The longer ranges were left to the snipers and air support/artillery. That said, here's a few personal observations.

 

AR:

PROS:

lightweight, can carry more ammo/mags, modular multi-caliber platform(I have a 5.56 and a 6.8SPC upper), accurate as heck if I do my part.

 

CONS:

Prone to stoppage, finicky on ammo, easily damaged if hit in the right spots, doesn't play well in dirty environments, accessories can cause you to take out a second mortgage on your house.

 

AK:

PROS:

Easy to operate, easy to maintain, easy to clear jams, dead nuts accurate in the ranges it was designed for, doesn't care if you feed it handloads or some cheap surplus dug up out of a battlefield, can be run packed full of mud and gunk, stout enough to double as a war club if you run out of ammo.

 

CONS:

Heavy, awkward insertion/extraction of mags, can be finicky on mags, subject to "barrel whip", not modular, accessories are few.

 

I get ragged sometimes by the AR purist at the range over my modified Saiga. However, the ragging stops when I prove my rifle is more than capable of taking out a target out to 200 yds if I do my part. Most AR guys like to brag about sub-MOA groups out of their guns after spending a few k on it. I say screw that. my rifle shoots MOD, and that's good enough for me. It takes care of filling my freezer if need be, as well as the 2-legged varmints.

 

BTW.....MOD: Minute Of Dead.