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#1 goldenpony

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 05:21 PM

What is the best lube to use on the slide rails of my Saiga 12? When I got my bolt & receiver back from Pauley, he recommended moly grease. I have been unable to find a moly gun grease. What do you guys use?

#2 yakdung

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 05:41 PM

I use this:
Attached File  tetra.jpg   77.12KB   1 downloads
You are about to hear all types of suggestions from bacon fat to axle grease. I just try and keep it simple.

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#3 Mullet Man

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 05:44 PM

You can use anything you want from bacon grease, to axle fat and anything in between.
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#4 Caged

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 06:22 PM

I agree, I use mystik bearing grease.

It's what we had at work at the time. Just use something, anything!Posted Image
I am now pulling back the thing that you pull back before you fire the gun...

#5 havok

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 08:17 PM

I agree, I use mystik bearing grease.

It's what we had at work at the time. Just use something, anything!Posted Image


I also used the clear mystik bearing grease in my s-12 it work's very well in the s12. But most of the time it's wd-40 in mine.

#6 deadeye

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 08:28 PM

ky jelly
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#7 JohnnyE

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 08:31 PM

Short answer, any true lubricant will do. Long answer...

I have the benefit of working with a gentleman who has a PhD in tribology. Tribology is the study of the effects of materials in relative motion – two things moving in relation to each other. Some things slide along each other, like a carrier moving back and forth on rails, and other things rotate, like a shaft within a bearing. His career is devoted to minimizing the damaging effects of wear and tear as things rub against each other. He is a professional in the field and I trust his judgment. Neither of us works for any companies or stores that make or sell lubricants.

He understands the lubrication challenges in firearms and automotives, and I showed him this webpage by Grant Cunningham (http://www.grantcunn...ricants101.html) and asked him to comment.

My colleague had great things to say about molybdenum disulfide (MoS2) and its ability to protect against wear between sliding surfaces like a carrier and rails. Here you need boundary protection. While MoS2 is black and may make a mess of your pants if you use it on the slide of the 1911 you are carrying concealed, inside an AK or Saiga, who cares! The trick was to find a commercially available product containing the highest concentration of MoS2, since that is the key ingredient. Loctite Moly Paste #51048 has the highest concentration of MoS2 (65%) that I could find in a reasonable quantity. The remaining 35% is grease that helps keep it in place. What’s more, he told me that almost EVERYONE uses way too much grease. Carefully and sparingly apply the grease until you barely see just the finest hint of grease on the object, then STOP and don’t add any more! Don’t lather in on like shaving cream. That will only give dust and dirt something to adhere to. If it gets slung off of the carrier, you put on WAY too much. It was wasted and made a mess. I apply MoS2 grease with a tiny artist’s paint brush. I'm 55 years old and a $20 8 oz. pot of this product is a lifetime supply...and I shoot nearly every week. It goes on the rails, the hammer face and the underside of the carrier where they contact each other (all of which were profiled and polished by Pauly), the trigger components other than the axis pins, the bolt lugs and other non-rotating bolt parts.

On rotating parts and exterior surfaces of the piece, corrosion protection is a high priority. Let’s face it, there aren’t any shafts spinning at 5,000 RPM inside a Saiga or any other firearm we own. And the loads are very reasonable. How much force does a trigger or hammer place on the axis pins, or a bolt in the carrier, when they rotate? Not much!

My colleague had less to say on this subject except that any true lubricant will support these hydrodynamic loads. It needs to penetrate into confined places. He and I followed Cunningham’s lead. Dexron automatic transmission fluid appears to fit the bill. Sure, it stinks, but it’s a Saiga that I shoot for fun and to cause a ruckus, not a Purdy that I show off at the skeet club. It appears to do a fine job resisting corrosion and oxidation in the harshest environments and it is a true lubricant that flows. You sure can’t beat the price. The quart I got at the auto parts store for a few bucks will, like the pot of moly lube, last me a lifetime.

If you chose, you can spend many dollars per milliliter for exotic, specialty lubes containing secret, "miracle" ingredients. They will all protect your firearms during your and many succeeding lifetimes. I just refuse to overpay for things that will not equal, let alone outperform, products that have years of research and experience behind them. To be meaningful, we need statistics that go beyond our personal experiences. When you boil it all down, in most cases we are trying to protect against wear from steel on steel, at modest temperatures and low speeds, in at worst a sweaty, humid environment. We’re not protecting a turbocharger shaft spinning at 30,000 RPM while being assaulted by 1,000 degree exhaust gasses for hours on end. The major labs have created many great products at very reasonable prices that are used every day on billions of dollars of much more demanding machinery.
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#8 Caged

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 09:05 PM

No, the mystik I use is purple/black, think industrial use. I have a tube of it the size of a tube that fits in a grease gun, since you are supposed to apply it in very thin coats, this MORE than a lifetime supply...
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I am now pulling back the thing that you pull back before you fire the gun...

#9 Long Shot

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 10:27 PM

JonnyE,
That is a very articulate explanation.

I won't bother to qualify my statement. The truth is the engineers responsible for industrial machinery worth millions of dollars have the lubrication puzzle solved.

Industrial lubricants are much better than any lube marketed as " GUN LUBE ".

Your local auto parts store has what you need. Molly-lube mining equipment grade grease and dexron-ll ATF.

And I still use 3M break cleaner. ( although it is said to effect the paint on a saiga ) for gun solvent on all my guns except a couple collectors pieces that seldom come out of the box.


#10 Castalia

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 12:03 AM

I use this product on my 1911 and my Saiga.

Good luck in your quest. Castalia

Attached Files


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#11 Fetchin Fetcher

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 12:49 AM

Short answer, any true lubricant will do. Long answer...

I have the benefit of working with a gentleman who has a PhD in tribology. Tribology is the study of the effects of materials in relative motion two things moving in relation to each other. Some things slide along each other, like a carrier moving back and forth on rails, and other things rotate, like a shaft within a bearing. His career is devoted to minimizing the damaging effects of wear and tear as things rub against each other. He is a professional in the field and I trust his judgment. Neither of us works for any companies or stores that make or sell lubricants.

He understands the lubrication challenges in firearms and automotives, and I showed him this webpage by Grant Cunningham (http://www.grantcunn...ricants101.html) and asked him to comment.



My colleague had great things to say about molybdenum disulfide (MoS2) and its ability to protect against wear between sliding surfaces like a carrier and rails. Here you need boundary protection. While MoS2 is black and may make a mess of your pants if you use it on the slide of the 1911 you are carrying concealed, inside an AK or Saiga, who cares! The trick was to find a commercially available product containing the highest concentration of MoS2, since that is the key ingredient. Loctite Moly Paste #51048 has the highest concentration of MoS2 (65%) that I could find in a reasonable quantity. The remaining 35% is grease that helps keep it in place. Whats more, he told me that almost EVERYONE uses way too much grease. Carefully and sparingly apply the grease until you barely see just the finest hint of grease on the object, then STOP and dont add any more! Dont lather in on like shaving cream. That will only give dust and dirt something to adhere to. If it gets slung off of the carrier, you put on WAY too much. It was wasted and made a mess. I apply MoS2 grease with a tiny artists paint brush. I'm 55 years old and a $20 8 oz. pot of this product is a lifetime supply...and I shoot nearly every week. It goes on the rails, the hammer face and the underside of the carrier where they contact each other (all of which were profiled and polished by Pauly), the trigger components other than the axis pins, the bolt lugs and other non-rotating bolt parts.

On rotating parts and exterior surfaces of the piece, corrosion protection is a high priority. Lets face it, there arent any shafts spinning at 5,000 RPM inside a Saiga or any other firearm we own. And the loads are very reasonable. How much force does a trigger or hammer place on the axis pins, or a bolt in the carrier, when they rotate? Not much!

My colleague had less to say on this subject except that any true lubricant will support these hydrodynamic loads. It needs to penetrate into confined places. He and I followed Cunninghams lead. Dexron automatic transmission fluid appears to fit the bill. Sure, it stinks, but its a Saiga that I shoot for fun and to cause a ruckus, not a Purdy that I show off at the skeet club. It appears to do a fine job resisting corrosion and oxidation in the harshest environments and it is a true lubricant that flows. You sure cant beat the price. The quart I got at the auto parts store for a few bucks will, like the pot of moly lube, last me a lifetime.

If you chose, you can spend many dollars per milliliter for exotic, specialty lubes containing secret, "miracle" ingredients. They will all protect your firearms during your and many succeeding lifetimes. I just refuse to overpay for things that will not equal, let alone outperform, products that have year

s of research and experience behind them. To be meaningful, we need statistics that go beyond our personal experiences. When you boil it all down, in most cases we are trying to protect against wear from steel on steel, at modest temperatures and low speeds, in at worst a sweaty, humid environment. Were not protecting a turbocharger shaft spinning at 30,000 RPM while being assaulted by 1,000 degree exhaust gasses for hours on end. The major labs have created many great products at very reasonable prices that are used every day on billions of dollars of much more demanding machinery.

Wow!


That's good info! I'm still a fan of the KY Jelly idea.

Edited by Fetchin Fetcher, 17 April 2012 - 12:52 AM.


#12 Skillz

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 01:08 AM

if you want the dest try microlon its a dry lube so dust and grim wont stick to it plus it coats the metal so its not metal to metal contact anymore its microlon to microlon

#13 G O B

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 07:56 AM

Molly anti-seeze and motor oil. The new Mobil-1 in 0W20 is perfect for springs and pins - molly anti-seeze is perfect for sliding contact and the blind plug threads.
When lubing any AK -LESS is MORE!

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#14 TacticoolTim

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 08:20 AM

You can use anything you want from bacon grease, to axle fat and anything in between.


The great thing about using bacon grease is that you'll never have to clean the major components again (not that I'm lazy). Just strip it down and let the dogs do the work. When they finish, just reapply bacon grease and you're good to go for the next outing. Don't try this method on small parts though as they are apt to turn up missing.

I find great satisfaction in getting at least some work out of the dogs because they're even lazier than me.
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#15 BOB A. BOOEY

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 01:44 PM

Astroglide....works well with dildos too.

#16 Fetchin Fetcher

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 02:01 PM


You can use anything you want from bacon grease, to axle fat and anything in between.


The great thing about using bacon grease is that you'll never have to clean the major components again (not that I'm lazy). Just strip it down and let the dogs do the work. When they finish, just reapply bacon grease and you're good to go for the next outing. Don't try this method on small parts though as they are apt to turn up missing.

I find great satisfaction in getting at least some work out of the dogs because they're even lazier than me.


Now that is a great idea! Lube the machine and Lure in the Coyotes!

#17 tritium

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 03:55 PM

There was some stuff called TS-70 discussed on the forum a few years ago maybe. Believe it's 70% moly paste. Great lube but you'll never get the stuff off your shirt, etc.
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