Door Breachers, Practical Tool or Pathetic Gimmick?

[G O B 3,516]

You know I've been wondering how peope keep cutting themselves on these things. I could see it pissing you off it it ripped a nice gun case, or bag. But if your cutting your hand on a breacher other than I dunno maybe initially installing it (even that is suspect) how do you operate power tools or make a fucking sandwich for that matter?

 

The damn gun goes BOOM! And we have asshats worrying about pointy things?

I have no use for a pointy breacher, but those who want others to grind the sharp points off need to move to England - in America we still have balls.(and sharp things!)

[BobAsh 582]

Personally, I think they are ridiculous mall ninja bait,

 

...says the guy who sent 27 emails about the design of his charging handle.

 

If you're going to play the "do you really need this" game, judge not lest ye be judged; what do you use your Saiga-12 for, after all? These guns are 99.9% purchased because they look badass.

 

I never said "you dont need that". I said most people will never need to do what its designed to do.

 

As far as what guns are designed to do... They are designed to fire bullets or pellets and that is exactly what I use them for. I never buy a gun to look at.

 

Edited to fix spelling because I can't type on my tiny phone keyboard.

 

 

Hey, you may be the most practical S12 owner ever for all I know. This question isn't about you though, is it?

 

The vast majority of S12 owners buy the gun because it looks badass. Are you disputing that assumption?

 

And by all means, tell me your criteria for purchasing this particular shotgun.

 

I have a solution for the window issue. . .Use more than one. A full crew of firefighters would be smart enough to figure that out. We also try to make exits when possible. Fire is a living creature that operates on instict to feed.

 

That's why firefighters are hero's for the guys that write tickets.

 

 

Oh brother. Please don't make this debate a pissing contest between services.

 

"guys who write tickets" don't need to blow doors, but we did design a custom door breaching gun for the FBI HRT at their request. I assume they use it to go through doors.

[BobAsh 582]

And before this gets any more ironic, let me point out that my personal S12 (as seen in my avatar) doesn't have a door breacher.

 

Everybody has an opinion about the way a gun should look, and these vary wildly. Build what you want.

Edited April 18, 2012 by BobAsh

[macbeau 902]

If you dont have a job that involves door breaching then its mall ninja. If you do I leave it to you to decide what to use.

 

My personal preferred method is setting fire to the building and shooting them as they run out.

 

Next can we do a poll about 37mm flare launcher attachments?

+1

They have a place with folks who breech doors for a living and bring coworkers with them. I am not among them anymore.

 

I DO have a Spike's Havoc 37mm than I am DD'ing to 40mm for the above highlighted...

 

In general, as an individual, if I can't door breech with my hand or foot or muzzle, I'll find another avenue of approach or bypass the threat altogether.

 

Macbeau sends...

Edited April 18, 2012 by macbeau

[preparehandbook 326]

"...says the guy who sent 27 emails about the design of his charging handle."

 

If this is directed at me let me say in my defense that "my little pony" charging handles are not an off-the-shelf item and for some reason the machine shop couldn't understand my interprative dance video I sent them showing the emotion I wanted the charging handle to convey.

[XD45 7,124]

If you're going to play the "do you really need this" game, judge not lest ye be judged; what do you use your Saiga-12 for, after all? These guns are 99.9% purchased because they look badass.

 

I never said "you dont need that". I said most people will never need to do what its designed to do.

 

As far as what guns are designed to do... They are designed to fire bullets or pellets and that is exactly what I use them for. I never buy a gun to look at.

 

Edited to fix spelling because I can't type on my tiny phone keyboard.

 

 

Hey, you may be the most practical S12 owner ever for all I know. This question isn't about you though, is it?

 

The vast majority of S12 owners buy the gun because it looks badass. Are you disputing that assumption?

 

And by all means, tell me your criteria for purchasing this particular shotgun.

 

Everybody has an opinion about the way a gun should look, and these vary wildly. Build what you want.

 

This question isn't about me, or about you, but it IS about me and you and all others on this board. Right?

 

As far as buying for looks, airsoft guns look badass. (This is where I exercise extreme self restraint by not launching a rant about tactical bb guns.)

 

I don't give much thought to why other people buy Saiga 12s. Although I will admit I sometimes sneer about certain accessories... lol

 

I may call it mall ninja, but you will never see me telling people what they should install on their guns. I assume my opinion would be as irrelevant to them as theirs is to me.

 

But if you (not you personally, "you" as in anybody) are installing accessories to look badass you should keep in mind your intended audience. Are you trying to impress those that don't know what a door breacher is, or are you trying to impress those that know what it is, and also know you don't need one? Just a rhetorical question. As you said, "build what you want".

 

My personal criteria for choosing a Saiga 12:

 

1. 12 gauge

2. Semi-automatic

3. Kalashnikov reliability

4. Detachable magazines

5. It's a freakin AK shotgun fer krisake! How cool is that?!

Edited April 18, 2012 by XD45

[magsite20 1,664]

While I don’t have one, they are an attention getter on a gun. I’m just way too cheap to go for the cool. It’s just a matter of having your gun your way, if Burger King sold guns it would be an option like jalapeños. They’d also have a question like “do you want a side of drums with that?”

[BobAsh 582]

"...says the guy who sent 27 emails about the design of his charging handle."

 

If this is directed at me let me say in my defense that "my little pony" charging handles are not an off-the-shelf item and for some reason the machine shop couldn't understand my interprative dance video I sent them showing the emotion I wanted the charging handle to convey.

 

No, it's directed at Gary. I have no idea who you are. Look at my post.

[XD45 7,124]

"...says the guy who sent 27 emails about the design of his charging handle."

 

If this is directed at me let me say in my defense that "my little pony" charging handles are not an off-the-shelf item and for some reason the machine shop couldn't understand my interprative dance video I sent them showing the emotion I wanted the charging handle to convey.

 

No, it's directed at Gary. I have no idea who you are. Look at my post.

 

I don't think he was being serious Bob. I'm pretty sure he doesn't really think it was him you were talking about. The parts about "my little pony" and "interpretive dance" kind of gave that away.

[Garys4598 1,065]

No, it's directed at Gary. I have no idea who you are. Look at my post.

 

Thanks Bob! I can always count on you to be a mensch. (That's sarcasm by the way.)

[preparehandbook 326]

If you're going to play the "do you really need this" game, judge not lest ye be judged; what do you use your Saiga-12 for, after all? These guns are 99.9% purchased because they look badass.

 

I never said "you dont need that". I said most people will never need to do what its designed to do.

 

As far as what guns are designed to do... They are designed to fire bullets or pellets and that is exactly what I use them for. I never buy a gun to look at.

 

Edited to fix spelling because I can't type on my tiny phone keyboard.

 

 

Hey, you may be the most practical S12 owner ever for all I know. This question isn't about you though, is it?

 

The vast majority of S12 owners buy the gun because it looks badass. Are you disputing that assumption?

 

And by all means, tell me your criteria for purchasing this particular shotgun.

 

Everybody has an opinion about the way a gun should look, and these vary wildly. Build what you want.

 

This question isn't about me, or about you, but it IS about me and you and all others on this board. Right?

 

As far as buying for looks, airsoft guns look badass. (This is where I exercise extreme self restraint by not launching a rant about tactical bb guns.)

 

I don't give much thought to why other people buy Saiga 12s. Although I will admit I sometimes sneer about certain accessories... lol

 

I may call it mall ninja, but you will never see me telling people what they should install on their guns. I assume my opinion would be as irrelevant to them as theirs is to me.

 

But if you (not you personally, "you" as in anybody) are installing accessories to look badass you should keep in mind your intended audience. Are you trying to impress those that don't know what a door breacher is, or are you trying to impress those that know what it is, and also know you don't need one? Just a rhetorical question. As you said, "build what you want".

 

My personal criteria for choosing a Saiga 12:

 

1. 12 gauge

2. Semi-automatic

3. Kalashnikov reliability

4. Detachable magazines

5. It's a freakin AK shotgun fer krisake! How cool is that?!

 

I'll have a number 3 with a side of 5

 

My personal weponry choice is shotgun based. It was a very hard choice to adopt a semi auto as I have been underwhelmed with previous tactical semi shotguns I've owned (hi standard 10B, Franchi SPAS, custom 1100) And so I've spent all my recent time with the FN/win 1300 family.

 

The Saiga gives me reliability I can count on and still can throw enough lead to meet any more extreme uses (squirrel invasion or the occasional 3 gun match).

 

Bythe way I was transfixed by the statement "This is where I exercise extreme self restraint by not launching a rant about tactical bb guns" are you for or against them?

[XD45 7,124]

By the way I was transfixed by the statement "This is where I exercise extreme self restraint by not launching a rant about tactical bb guns" are you for or against them?

 

Against them really isn't the way I'd put it. I tried to restrain myself, but you asked...

 

CAUTION: IF YOU DON'T WANT TO READ A RANT ABOUT AIRSOFT, DO NOT CONTINUE. AND IF YOU DO, DON'T BITCH BECAUSE YOU WERE WARNED.

 

.

.

 

With that said...

 

Airsoft is the most pathetic mall ninja crap I've ever heard of, seen, or even conceived of. Good lord. Grown men running through the woods peppering each other with tiny plastic BBs would be bad enough, but they have to put every mall ninja retarded accessory known to man on their "tactical" bb guns that are designed to look exactly like real guns. And then they "gear up" with every retarded mall ninja accessory known to man on themselves too.

 

If there is a perfect definition of pathetic wannabe, it is airsoft players.

 

Yes I know there are rare cases of real training done by real warriors using airsoft, and I don't include them in this rant. If your real job is going in harms way I salute you and don't question anything that can help you in any way.

 

[/rant]

[preparehandbook 326]

By the way I was transfixed by the statement "This is where I exercise extreme self restraint by not launching a rant about tactical bb guns" are you for or against them?

 

Against them really isn't the way I'd put it. I tried to restrain myself, but you asked...

 

CAUTION: IF YOU DON'T WANT TO READ A RANT ABOUT AIRSOFT, DO NOT CONTINUE. AND IF YOU DO, DON'T BITCH BECAUSE YOU WERE WARNED.

 

.

.

 

With that said...

 

Airsoft is the most pathetic mall ninja crap I've ever heard of, seen, or even conceived of. Good lord. Grown men running through the woods peppering each other with tiny plastic BBs would be bad enough, but they have to put every mall ninja retarded accessory known to man on their "tactical" bb guns that are designed to look exactly like real guns. And then they "gear up" with every retarded mall ninja accessory known to man on themselves too.

 

If there is a perfect definition of pathetic wannabe, it is airsoft players.

 

Yes I know there are rare cases of real training done by real warriors using airsoft, and I don't include them in this rant. If your real job is going in harms way I salute you and don't question anything that can help you in any way.

 

[/rant]

 

I agree, mostly.

 

I have generally kept a couple airsofts around for pest control.

 

Airsoft is a great choice for detering nieghborhood cats/dogs/raccoons etc quietly and without doing serious harm.

 

But I don't need to wear a ghillie suit or cover it in picatinny rails to do so.

[read_the_wall 614]

I have a shark break on one of my S12's and a MAA 410 thread protector on my 410

 

I don't see breaching any doors in the near future. However, if given the chance to control

a situation by bouncing one of these off of someones forehead, rather than shoot them,

I would rather just put a few dents in a perpetrator.

 

If the need to pull the trigger is unavoidable, having the end of the barrel stuck to your

opponent seems like easy target acquistion.

[preparehandbook 326]

I am on old man, and not particularly fast, in fact, I was not very fast when I was young.

 

But poke me with a muzzle mounted anything and I be shooting or beating you with your own weapon before you realise you got too close.

 

I have disarmed many an idiot and even a few well trained individuals and only been shot once while doing it.

 

The simple fact is it is faster to act than react meaning you don't have to let your guard down to lose control of your weapon.

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

By the way I was transfixed by the statement "This is where I exercise extreme self restraint by not launching a rant about tactical bb guns" are you for or against them?

 

Against them really isn't the way I'd put it. I tried to restrain myself, but you asked...

 

CAUTION: IF YOU DON'T WANT TO READ A RANT ABOUT AIRSOFT, DO NOT CONTINUE. AND IF YOU DO, DON'T BITCH BECAUSE YOU WERE WARNED.

 

.

.

 

With that said...

 

Airsoft is the most pathetic mall ninja crap I've ever heard of, seen, or even conceived of. Good lord. Grown men running through the woods peppering each other with tiny plastic BBs would be bad enough, but they have to put every mall ninja retarded accessory known to man on their "tactical" bb guns that are designed to look exactly like real guns. And then they "gear up" with every retarded mall ninja accessory known to man on themselves too.

 

If there is a perfect definition of pathetic wannabe, it is airsoft players.

 

Yes I know there are rare cases of real training done by real warriors using airsoft, and I don't include them in this rant. If your real job is going in harms way I salute you and don't question anything that can help you in any way.

 

[/rant]

 

I agree, mostly.

 

I have generally kept a couple airsofts around for pest control.

 

Airsoft is a great choice for detering nieghborhood cats/dogs/raccoons etc quietly and without doing serious harm.

 

But I don't need to wear a ghillie suit or cover it in picatinny rails to do so.

 

If you need to deter a small animal, use a regular pump BB gun. You can get one for ~$30. Just use 1-2 pumps rather than 10.

 

Now that simunitions are available, I don't see any serious military/LE training value to airsoft, (if there ever was any, since they behave nothing like actual firearms).

 

Airsoft is for children and/or pussies who can't abide getting hit with a paintball.

Edited April 19, 2012 by post-apocalyptic

[patriot 7,197]

The shotguns I used in the Army had no muzzle device, so I have no experience being trained with or using a door breacher brake.

 

That said, a 12ga shotgun will make short work of most hasp-type locks when used properly.

[storm6490 2,768]

They work great and do their job. Next time you find a tree growing in between your fencing, instead of whipping out the chain saw and potentially throwing a chain back into your shin, pull out the shotgun and place the muzzle directly in the center of the tree. If one shot wont do it, work left then right of the first hole. A fun way to maintain your fence.

 

A good Breaching device will protect your investment and help place shot where they need to go. Not using one while placing your muzzle on the target can cause serious damage to your weapon.

[RED333 1,025]

They work great and do their job. Next time you find a tree growing in between your fencing, instead of whipping out the chain saw and potentially throwing a chain back into your shin, pull out the shotgun and place the muzzle directly in the center of the tree. If one shot wont do it, work left then right of the first hole. A fun way to maintain your fence.

I have done this, had a tree blocking the SAT from my dish, Old large dish years ago.

Tree was 4" across took 5 slugs to "cut" it down, thick brush, no way to get at it with a saw.

OL thought I was crazy, it was a hoot.

[storm6490 2,768]

They work great and do their job. Next time you find a tree growing in between your fencing, instead of whipping out the chain saw and potentially throwing a chain back into your shin, pull out the shotgun and place the muzzle directly in the center of the tree. If one shot wont do it, work left then right of the first hole. A fun way to maintain your fence.

I have done this, had a tree blocking the SAT from my dish, Old large dish years ago.

Tree was 4" across took 5 slugs to "cut" it down, thick brush, no way to get at it with a saw.

OL thought I was crazy, it was a hoot.

 

Ha! That's awesome! A tool is a tool! Use it!!!

[sparky63 46]

22years firefighter 16 as fire chief [unpaid vol] used a back kick and all doors but steel framed doors opened for me.

[liberty -r- death 1,445]

22years firefighter 16 as fire chief [unpaid vol] used a back kick and all doors but steel framed doors opened for me.

 

Godd ol' donkey kick!

[liberty -r- death 1,445]

Looked pretty effective on TOP SHOT when they used a Mossberg 500 with one on it. Opened several doors with it.

[preparehandbook 326]

22years firefighter 16 as fire chief [unpaid vol] used a back kick and all doors but steel framed doors opened for me.

 

Agreed!

 

Though I taught some entry classes way long ago where we used a shotgun on the lock/hinges (frangible or birdshot is near identical) in my experience a sound kick opens nearly any door.

 

Now granted I'm a very large guy so can place 300 pounds behind a kick, but I've seen it work for most folks. Even household doors that swing outwards can usually be kicked inwards.

 

If the door can't be opened with a couple strong kicks then it's probably time for a battering ram. A shotgun for breaching is a risk involved proposition (though not as bad as explosive breaching). Especially in a civilian/LEO environment where every splinter or round of birdshot in a coworker's shin will be a work injury claim.

[BpS12 512]

By the way I was transfixed by the statement "This is where I exercise extreme self restraint by not launching a rant about tactical bb guns" are you for or against them?

 

Against them really isn't the way I'd put it. I tried to restrain myself, but you asked...

 

CAUTION: IF YOU DON'T WANT TO READ A RANT ABOUT AIRSOFT, DO NOT CONTINUE. AND IF YOU DO, DON'T BITCH BECAUSE YOU WERE WARNED.

 

.

.

 

With that said...

 

Airsoft is the most pathetic mall ninja crap I've ever heard of, seen, or even conceived of. Good lord. Grown men running through the woods peppering each other with tiny plastic BBs would be bad enough, but they have to put every mall ninja retarded accessory known to man on their "tactical" bb guns that are designed to look exactly like real guns. And then they "gear up" with every retarded mall ninja accessory known to man on themselves too.

 

If there is a perfect definition of pathetic wannabe, it is airsoft players.

 

Yes I know there are rare cases of real training done by real warriors using airsoft, and I don't include them in this rant. If your real job is going in harms way I salute you and don't question anything that can help you in any way.

 

[/rant]

 

I agree, mostly.

 

I have generally kept a couple airsofts around for pest control.

 

Airsoft is a great choice for detering nieghborhood cats/dogs/raccoons etc quietly and without doing serious harm.

 

But I don't need to wear a ghillie suit or cover it in picatinny rails to do so.

 

If you need to deter a small animal, use a regular pump BB gun. You can get one for ~$30. Just use 1-2 pumps rather than 10.

 

Now that simunitions are available, I don't see any serious military/LE training value to airsoft, (if there ever was any, since they behave nothing like actual firearms).

 

Airsoft is for children and/or pussies who can't abide getting hit with a paintball.

 

 

Airsoft = Poor mans training tool if used correctly within its limitations.

Simunitions are still a bit expensive and problematic in the wrong hands.

Paintball is only just recently starting to mimic RL weaponry in terms of function, ie reloading drills and round counts. And thus still expensive.

The advantages of Airsoft is price and similarity of function to RL weaponry.

 

Practicing HD with loaded RL firearms can be....problematic. Esp if doing Home Invasion drills with the Wife while masked, etc. lol. And Painballs are more likely to do damage to appliances and her nic-nacs than the plastic BBs.

 

Any tool USED CORRECTLY for training is of benefit. The "games" are detrimental, be them Airsoft or Paintball. The games tend to reenforce bad habits because people care more for winning than training.

 

Imho

[magsite20 1,664]

The squadron I was with did field training exercises on a routine bases shooting blanks in the dark against our aggressors. Damn a whole squadron of John Wayne by God heroes, when there were blanks being fired, no fear just face the front and charge.

 

At a tightly grouped lunch break gathering some evil person set off a ground burst simulator, you should have seen the heroes leaving the area when the whistle sound stated when the pull cord got yanked. I think some of the Johns had to change their shorts after the bang happened.

 

Training helps some things but no amount of blanks fired, paint ball, or airsoft is going to give you the real mind set of what a real danger will. I’ve never had it and don’t want to go through what’s required to get it. When you’re the one that sets the simulator off it’s easy to look calm, when about 20 people want to kick your ass afterwards some of the calm may fade. It was still funny as hell.

[BpS12 512]

Ya, we had the Laser rigs and blanks, while I was in. Funny as hel watching the "Johns" get pissed when they litterally got lit up, lol.

 

The purpose of training is not to overcome fear, but to learn to fall back on it when fear/chaos overcomes you.

[Joseph 141]

door breaches as bayonets......... hey guys i think there might be a reason why when every bayonet designer ever was in his shop tinkering'

 

HE DECIDED TO MAKE IT LONGER THAN 1/2 AN INCH

[preparehandbook 326]

door breaches as bayonets......... hey guys i think there might be a reason why when every bayonet designer ever was in his shop tinkering'

 

HE DECIDED TO MAKE IT LONGER THAN 1/2 AN INCH

 

they were all compensating for something?

[Fallschirmjager667 729]

 

 

...says the guy who sent 27 emails about the design of his charging handle.

 

 

 

is this about the penis shaped charging handle that i wanted? the last email you didn't reply to, were the pictures ok?