Slide Fire S12 (Full Auto)

[gunfun 3,931]

I think AK rear sight leaf is worth upgrading in any case. It blocks view of your target. It is possible to shoot accurately with that sight, but IMO it takes more time and effort to acquire a target than with a good peep sight. I am always a fan of optics, but I don't know how easily you can see through a reciprocating scope. For one thing, your eye relief would be constantly changing by 5/8". Low magnification and large objective would be the only way I could see it working at all.

[csspecs 1,987]

The parts will slide freely they slide freely even without the UHMW. At least two other people have made steel on steel square tube based stocks that look about the same. They posted videos. Find CSSpec's old video. His worked. Don't be that way man. I respect your work, but don't act like anyone else trying the same thing is sure to fail just because they don't use the same exact design as yours. I'd be willing to bet that you made (& probably tested) a simple version before you went to all the trouble to machine your fancy one. Like I said, I do respect your work. If I was buying one yours is the one that looks worth buying to me. However, I only want it bad enough to put in an hour or two and <$20, not hundreds of dollars.

 

I will not make a video now, because I will not do the last steps that would enable me to mount one on a gun. Maybe someday I will finish one and find a cheap gun to let the ATF take, but it is no longer worth it to me.

 

You've convinced me not to without a personal ATF letter.

 

Yep mine was just steel on steel.. It worked mostly, just remember to keep your trigger finger away from the trigger especially if you point down.. First time I let someone else shoot mine the guy almost shot his legs off, he aimed toward the ground and released his support hand. Gravity pulled the rifle down and forward and since his finger was still more or less on the trigger..... Well lets just say it was interesting, awesome and mostly terrifying....

 

Nothing like a one handed runaway rifle cranking through 60 rounds of x39 to brighten your day.... And make you decide that maybe semi auto is the best kind of auto.

[gunfun 3,931]

I suppose that lesson applies to the designs presently on the market.

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

I think AK rear sight leaf is worth upgrading in any case. It blocks view of your target. It is possible to shoot accurately with that sight, but IMO it takes more time and effort to acquire a target than with a good peep sight. I am always a fan of optics, but I don't know how easily you can see through a reciprocating scope. For one thing, your eye relief would be constantly changing by 5/8". Low magnification and large objective would be the only way I could see it working at all.

 

The PK-23 is a 1x mil-spec red dot that flickers at 8Hz, so I think it'd be easier to keep track of than most. I'm just worried about it shaking loose.

 

I think any one of the peep sights out there would work very well with any bump-stock. XS AK Big Dot sights might be an even better choice, as they're highly visible and allow very quick target acquisition.

[gunfun 3,931]

That sounds about right.

 

I bet that ATI stick on cheek riser would be a worthwhile addition too. I can't believe how square they left the back edge of this stock. It's like they want it to leave a mark with the 12. I would be strongly inclined to mount a sissy pad of some sort. On a 5.45 or 7.62 it probably doesn't matter so much. I also don't get why that put that knob where it would hit your hand. They could have made it smaller and/or moved it back an inch or two.

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

That sounds about right.

 

I bet that ATI stick on cheek riser would be a worthwhile addition too. I can't believe how square they left the back edge of this stock. It's like they want it to leave a mark with the 12. I would be strongly inclined to mount a sissy pad of some sort. On a 5.45 or 7.62 it probably doesn't matter so much. I also don't get why that put that knob where it would hit your hand. They could have made it smaller and/or moved it back an inch or two.

 

You're operating under a couple misconceptions here, which is completely natural if you haven't actually tried the Slide Fire stock yourself...

 

1. The fat back plate and general fat body of the stock is a good thing, as it spreads what recoil force is felt over a larger surface area, which is less irritating to underlying tissue. A recoil pad is unnecessary. It's actually easier on my shoulder than the K-Var poly stock that I normally use on the rifle for standard semi-auto fire.

 

2. The lock/unlock knob does not hit your hand, unless you're an old dude who can't properly handle the S-12 on simulated FA and lose your grip allowing sliding parts to impact it... basically that's just a personal fail and is higly unlikely if you're fairly young and/or strong.

[gunfun 3,931]

Sure. I'd sure like to borrow yours once or twice. It wasn't the width that looked like a problem so much as the sharp looking edges.

 

As for personal fails, I don't know yet. I used to be fit, if not strong, but a couple of years of office work has taken its toll. I expect that it would take some practice to get the feel for the S12. It looked like people were having a hard time controlling it in most of the videos I have seen. Even Atlantic Firearms' promotional video. It did look like that pompous old guy in the video above was able to keep it on target, so I'll give him credit for that.

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

Because of the width, the edges aren't really ever an issue.. and they're not exactly sharp, though if one were concerned about em, the polymer could be sanded to taste.

 

The S-12 definitely has more felt recoil.. and I'd try the Slide Fire on mine, except I cut the tang off my S-12's rear trunnion to install a folder, (as so many have traditionally done), and so I can't install it. It really is too bad, since I have a Tromix Monster Brake on mine, I suspect it'd be more controllable than most on sim-FA.

 

Best I can do is slap it on my S-308 and rock that shit sim-FA with tracers. That I've got to get on video. I'll hold on and hope for the best.

Edited April 29, 2012 by post-apocalyptic

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

This is worth watching, (from ~0:26-1:32):

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BKQAnTH-2c&feature=related

 

Of course, there is no "85-rnd drum", they're either 75 or 100-rnd. The one in the vid looks like 100-rnd to me. Also, that genius obviously doesn't "get" the advantage of Chinese/Bulgarian/Romanian wind-up drums, but, however long that took, he did get it loaded.

 

Still, great shit, and another reminder of why the pragmatic among us prefer polymer handguards, (with a heat-shield), to wooden ones.

[Joseph 141]

that shit is so unstable it's pathetic, i'd pay 300$$ to keep that shit off my gun.

 

fast paced sustained semi-automatic fire kicks the hell of out spray shit everywhere, hitting your target is a lot more lethal than missing it for 15 seconds and then charging with your bayonet when your out of bullets. AK's already have very high mag/ammo weight so you can't even carry all that much. Doh

 

this is toy, anyone who can't see that has a mental problem. MAYBE if the distance is less that 25 yards for multiple targets.. but even then the waste of ammo and lack of precision is questionable at best and better still would be dominated by a Saiga 12

 

this thing should come packaged with lasers and detachable carry handles

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

that shit is so unstable it's pathetic, i'd pay 300$$ to keep that shit off my gun.

 

fast paced sustained semi-automatic fire kicks the hell of out spray shit everywhere, hitting your target is a lot more lethal than missing it for 15 seconds and then charging with your bayonet when your out of bullets. AK's already have very high mag/ammo weight so you can't even carry all that much. Doh

 

this is toy, anyone who can't see that has a mental problem. MAYBE if the distance is less that 25 yards for multiple targets.. but even then the waste of ammo and lack of precision is questionable at best and better still would be dominated by a Saiga 12

 

this thing should come packaged with lasers and detachable carry handles

 

Where, oh where, is the -1 button? Hell you deservie -5.

 

Actually try a stock like this and then submit an informed opinion.

[Joseph 141]

Hey i'm acknowledging that it looks to be an awesome toy, i love that Americans have the freedom to have it. And if you can afford and want to spend your money like that, that's awesome.i would support letting people own real FA if it were just about personal politics.

 

But in any real survival/defense scenario, especially in a 7.62 cal weapon, i wouldn't want it on mine.(full auto in your house on a bugluar? most cost effective just to let him take the T.V, lol) proper stock and cheek weld are core elements of my rapid fire technique, and with a "full auto" side fire that would seem to be impossible. i can fire my trigger extreamly fast and have even been asked to prove my gun is only a semi when i do 3 round bursts, but i don't think the technique is particularly useful unless at very close rage 25yards<

 

in short, for practical usage, if you're in the military get a real FA. If you're not in the military and you think you need full auto get a slide fire but ONLY if you've got room in your bunker

Edited April 29, 2012 by ZombieJefferson

[The_Caged_Bird 474]

Wow, how uninformed, just about any American citizen can own a full-auto weapon, all we have to do is render unto Caesar...

[Joseph 141]

Wow, how uninformed, just about any American citizen can own a full-auto weapon, all we have to do is render unto Caesar...

 

well you know i'm referring to just dropping in FA parts into new rifles, which you can also do but you need a lot of permits/liscensces and a SOT/manufacture/dealer status ect ect. i'm fully aware of NFA transferables and if you rich enough for a 10,000-30,000 dollar gun that's great but i don't see how that plays a role in what we're talking about per se, the cost pretty much excludes most Americans

Edited April 29, 2012 by ZombieJefferson

[crankywanker 7]

Man zombie J you are so uninformed on NFA it's crazy. Especially to say "if you're mil get FA"

[Joseph 141]

if you're an ACTIVE MILL ON DEPLOYMENT yeah i think they have access to burst and FA, obviously state side things are different

 

i'm really try to say that people on deployment and in foreign countries with supply lines and suppression doctrines might have a practical use for full auto where as american citizens probably you know, don't.

 

apparently I've hit a nerve with the full auto as i didn't write a parenthetically cited disposition exposing all current laws and work arounds regarding FA for U.S citizens, i'm aware there a few and all that bullshit bit much seriously,

 

 

if you're using a FA rifle for self defense ( or shotgun for that matter!) you're really pushing your luck, all i can say is good luck

wait till the shock photo of the body hits the jury

Edited April 29, 2012 by ZombieJefferson

[The_Caged_Bird 474]

Whatever you say man, I subscribe to the "one shot one kill" philosophy but you are severly lacking on your NFA knowledge...

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

ZombieJeff... I stand by my opinion, (based on personal hands-on experience), that you need to try one of these before you pronounce judgement.

 

These can most definitely be more tool than toy, but it depends on the operator.

 

If you do your part, the Slide Fire will allow the gun to do its intended job, (FA suppressive fire; the AK was designed for it, and a 74-type brake makes it that much easier).

 

This eve I further perfected my techinique using this stock; at the very least, it allows anyone with a standard receiver AK using a G2 trigger, (the ideal trigger for this system and the one I believe it was designed around), to put accurate, fast, (close to standard AK FA rate of ~600 rpm), and nearly effortless 2-3 rnd bursts downrange.

 

If I can put all 3 rnds out of a burst on a 1-gallon jug at ~40 yrds, I consider that to be very effective.. and I did that several times tonight.

 

I'll be getting some video on Wednesday. Tannerite will be involved, as well.

Edited May 1, 2012 by post-apocalyptic

[gunfun 3,931]

That would be good. Video @75 yards too please. Everyone shows videos of them self shooting bump stocks, but never the target. I really want to see how easy it is for a person of intermediate skill to keep on target.

 

Washington is only a few inches away from Colorado on my map. Do you think you could swing by sometime this week so I can try your gun? It sounds really fun.

[hawaiianbasshead 3]

I had one on one of my ar15s, and for ME it sucked and was hard to keep on target/aim. a reflex sight would help I suppose but I ended up using a strong green laser and then at maybe 35 yards I blasted out a target pretty well. much further and I was having a harder time it was more where the poi was and not so much aiming. but I mean, that's just my personal take on it. I sold that AR and thought bout getting another slidefire for a 22 build so I could easier stay on target. the thought of putting one on my S12 is just to blast off rounds in bursts, not anything useful. I pretty much described it to people as useful for laying cover fire, intimidation and shooting a car at 55 yards my zero button is missing otherwise it'd be fifty yards lol. dunno, to each their own but for me it wasn't as manageable/useful and more of a blasting off tons of rounds for fun which = wasting money and cooking my gun lol. I had a kci hundred round drum

[crankywanker 7]

Has anyone figured out what the best muzzle brake for an AK 47 is using these bump fires? I thought maybe the original slant brake but now I'm thinking the AK 74 style. What do you guys think?

[Guns Are Great 140]

Wow, how uninformed, just about any American citizen can own a full-auto weapon, all we have to do is render unto Caesar...

I think it looks like fun. I would rather have the real deal by rendering unto Caesar also. However, paying 10-20K for a $2.50 difference in metal isn't realistic. I think the Gun Community would be better served to apply all that money lobbying= buying votes from the so called constitutional consevatives to make it leagal to make and own any weapon you want without the stupid BATFE or special lic. You know buy votes like big business and criminals like the UAW, SEIU, etc... Edited May 6, 2012 by Guns Are Great

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

Has anyone figured out what the best muzzle brake for an AK 47 is using these bump fires? I thought maybe the original slant brake but now I'm thinking the AK 74 style. What do you guys think?

 

Based on my experience; '74-type brakes do the best job of eliminating muzzle rise in FA, (or damn near), fire.

 

ymmv.

 

Sorry, but I didn't get video this week. I will get some soon, though.. in the meantime; anyone who's not physically incompetent and who's tried one of these stocks knows their potential.

[The_Caged_Bird 474]

Wow, how uninformed, just about any American citizen can own a full-auto weapon, all we have to do is render unto Caesar...

I think it looks like fun. I would rather have the real deal by rendering unto Caesar also. However, paying 10-20K for a $2.50 difference in metal isn't realistic. I think the Gun Community would be better served to apply all that money lobbying= buying votes from the so called constitutional consevatives to make it leagal to make and own any weapon you want without the stupid BATFE or special lic. You know buy votes like big business and criminals like the UAW, SEIU, etc...

 

Well, as far as the S-12 goes... the slidefire is the only way to achieve full-auto.

 

As for other weapons, there are cheaper ways to go about it but basically pay the tax and buy/build the weapon. I believe that the GCA 1934 has served it's usefulness and I wish they'd amend it. Oh well, I'll have my SBS one day...

[fishman 0]

I will have to agree with most everyone who said "You need to try it before you judge it". This is me with The Bumpski on my Saiga 12, no words can explain how much fun this thing has been so far!!

 

[dustindu4 101]

As an NFA owner, to each his own. I'd take my UZI to battle any day considering I can hold center mass from 50 yards away with that thing while dumping a 40 round mag. I'm not one of those rich bastards, I just bought when they were 1/4 the prices now.

 

Looking at the slidefire vs bumpski, I would put my money on the bumpski. Way better made, not some plastic crap. Plus it looks right on a converted saiga.

[crankywanker 7]

I will have to agree with most everyone who said "You need to try it before you judge it". This is me with The Bumpski on my Saiga 12, no words can explain how much fun this thing has been so far!!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpcygzoxmPo

 

hey buddy do you have the DIY trigger guard??!?! and if so howd you make it fit with the bumpski? I have a bumpski but its on my ak.

[fishman 0]

As an NFA owner, to each his own. I'd take my UZI to battle any day considering I can hold center mass from 50 yards away with that thing while dumping a 40 round mag. I'm not one of those rich bastards, I just bought when they were 1/4 the prices now.

 

Looking at the slidefire vs bumpski, I would put my money on the bumpski. Way better made, not some plastic crap. Plus it looks right on a converted saiga.

 

I'm sure most everyone would prefer the real thing, but when you look at the costs (even at 1/4 of what they are now). The Bumpski is a fairly inexpensive way to experience simulated "full-auto" fire!! In that video I fire 12 rounds in about 3 seconds (roughly 240 rpm) out of a shotgun, Wikipedia rates the AA-12 at 300 rpm!!

 

I will have to agree with most everyone who said "You need to try it before you judge it". This is me with The Bumpski on my Saiga 12, no words can explain how much fun this thing has been so far!!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpcygzoxmPo

hey buddy do you have the DIY trigger guard??!?! and if so howd you make it fit with the bumpski? I have a bumpski but its on my ak.

I honestly don't know! I purchased the Siaga this way with the bumpski already on it!

 

Edited May 17, 2012 by fishman

[ZenOhSix 1]

My S12 is almost done being built by Mach1. They test fired it yesterday, post conversion. I had sent them the Slide Fire as I wanted to ensure fitment with the trigger guard and cycling of target shot. They had never used a Slide Fire before. Watch Les and Chad shoot 5 rounds of Winchester Xpert game & target 2 3/4 1325fps 1oz 7shot:

 

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=4005738191552

 

The gun is being painted today / tomorrow. I hope they can send it out to me on Friday.

[WI_Dave 26]

This was my first day out with a slidefire on a 5.45

 

Edited May 17, 2012 by WI_Dave