Improvisor 0 Posted September 13, 2005 Report Share Posted September 13, 2005 Hi all. Bought myself a Saiga .223 a couple of weeks ago. Got it for $275 OTD with siderail scope mount and an extra mag. The first thing I wanted to do was add a peep sight, but Krebs doesn't seem to be selling thier reciever mounted ones right now, so I decided to improvise. First I tried a Mojo style one, by grinding a groove in the original rear sight and JB-Welding a washer in place. This helped a lot, but it wasn't even close to the real thing. Then I started tring to figure out a way to add one to the reciever cover, which would be easy, but would modify the reciever cover and wouldn't be very stable. That's when I noticed that my lowly little scope mount was the perfect place to mount a sight. It's sturdy, stable, and removable. So, I took an eye-bolt and went to work. this sight can use Williams removable apertures, and maybe others. Note: If your mount doesn't already have the hole, then you'll have to drill it, but it's better than drilling the rifle. Items needed: 1 - 3/16" x 4" eye bolt $0.69 1 - extra 3/16" nut $0.06 1 - Metric size M6 nut (I'm pretty sure) $0.60 (or rubber gommet to fit eye bolt or small washer) JB-Weld, Epoxy, or Solder Loctite (Haven't put any on mine yet, but it does jar loose) Just remove the rear screw on the mount, put one nut on the eye bolt, put it through the hole, and move the nut to center the hole over the reciever cover. Put the other nut on the outside, and mark where the bolt needs to be cut off. Be sure to leave a little extra on the bolt, this makes the sight windage adjustable. Now take the bolt out, cut it to the desired size, and use JB-weld, or whatever, to attach the M6 nut to the eye bolt. Make sure it's centered over the hole in the bolt. (If you don't want to use removable apertures, you can stick a rubber grommet with a small hole in there, or attatch a washer instead.) Now give it a coat of black paint, and put it back on the mount. As is, you have a nice ghost ring sized aperture, or you can use Williams removable apertures, they screw right into the M6 nut. BTW, this puts the sight at amost the same hieght as the original on my mount. Oh, and you need to remove the original rear sight. Images Below, sorry for the quality, I took them with my phone. Back view, no aperture Front view, no aperture Side view, no aperture Side view, outside nut Side view, Williams Long Shank aperture Back view, Williams Long Shank aperture Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hoop762 0 Posted September 13, 2005 Report Share Posted September 13, 2005 Hi Improvisor...i see your name holds true very inginuituve. I like. I too have been looking for ways to add a peep sight to my saiga. However my siderail mount is quite different than yours. Hows the accuracy with that sight? Welcome to the forum!!! HOOP Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Improvisor 0 Posted September 13, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2005 Haven't got to test it yet, just did it last night. Hopefully tommorrow. Got to get some loctite first, the nuts jar loose just working the action. Maybe try loc-nuts. I imagine accuracy will improve because of the longer sight radius, and the fact that I'm more familiar with peep sights than blade sights. I've got an XB3 air rifle (with a peep sight made from a .22 scope ring ), it's an ak-type rifle, that has a front sight post about half the diameter of the saiga's, I'm probably going to switch them out, and get one of William's twilight apertures to put in the peep, or one of those adjustable apertures. Also going to add a tube-style red-dot to the mount, I've been eyeing a 4-reticle simmons but I don't know if the knob-section will fit between my rings. I haven't used any other type of mount, so I don't know how easy it would be to make this work on them, I guess I got lucky that my rifle came with this one. Not sure who makes it, it's got a picture on it of a triangle with an arrow inside. Also, I was thinking that it wouldn't be too hard to make a receiver mounted sight with the M6 nut and something to raise it to the right hieght, or even bringing an eyebolt up from the stock tang, if you didn't mind modding the rifle. Damn, I'm cheap. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tokageko 8 Posted September 13, 2005 Report Share Posted September 13, 2005 I was very recently considering the possibility of a flilp up tang mounted sight. Unfortuantely, I don't have the means to do anything like that. By the way, good post and welcome to the forum. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Improvisor 0 Posted September 13, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2005 Hmmm. Could an AR flip up sight be made to fit the tang? Maybe attach a small block to the tang with a section of a picatinny rail on top, should sit right in the groove of the tang. That should let a rail mounted AR sight sit right on there. Not sure about the height, but it looks pretty close, and unless it's too tall, it could be easily adjusted by using a taller block. If I'm not mistaken, Ace sells little blocks of metal that would fit right in there, they're in the little parts boxes, I'll check tommorrow. Also, if you had a tubular stock. Clearview Invest sells a picatinny rail ,made to mount on a SKS reciever cover, that would fit the tube pretty well. They're like $2.99, but I think they have an $8.00 flat shipping rate. Or I'm pretty sure a peep tang sight made for lever-action rifles could be made to fit Or If you wanted to go the homemade route, you could fit a small sturdy (thick) hinge, to the tang, shape it, and attach a nut or washer for the peep. As for keeping it in the up position while in use, that would be the hard part. A strong spring between the two sections, with some way to lock it in the down position might work. If you could find (or make) a suitable hinge, it should be possible for under $5.00. It could even be made elevation adjustable by cutting a slot down the middle, and using a removable aperture with a nut on the back. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted September 13, 2005 Report Share Posted September 13, 2005 Cool man! Way to IMPROVISE! I made a peep sight for my S-12 from the lower tang for the factory buttstock. I already had it sitting around from where I cut it off to do my PG conversion. Then I made flip up blade sight to use with it from a ground down AK night sight, a spring, and a piece of hacksaw blade. Check this out I think you will dig it! http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=5178 Seems like you and I think alike! I prefer to think of it as being resourceful, not cheap. That arrow in the triangle is the Izhmash symbol. Your scope mount is made by the same people that made your .223. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Improvisor 0 Posted September 13, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2005 Cobra, Great info. I plan on converting mine next week. I had a similar idea about the sights. I thought about taking a spare Yugoslavian SKS rear sight I've got and fitting it to fit in the original rear sight base. It has flip up nights sights. I thought about filing down the non-night sight part and attatching a washer to use as a ghost ring. This would give me a forward mounted ghost ring with the ability to flip up notched night sights with the flick of a finger. But, like I said, I don't care for the peep sight being that far away from the eye. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted September 13, 2005 Report Share Posted September 13, 2005 Welcome aboard man! Here is another idea I had for the Saiga shotgun for use with slugs. I'm setting up one of my S-12s for slugs only. It's a two position peepsight from an M-1 I believe. It slides into a dovetail just like the Saiga shotties have for their rear sights. Only problem is the dovetail base is wider than that of the Saiga rear sight and wont fit in the groove. Im going to try and cut or file it down to fit in the groove. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Improvisor 0 Posted September 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 Cobra, You're just full of good ideas man. A little file work should take care of it. Is the M-1 sight about the same height as your original sight? Tokageko, Went to ACE today for some Loctite, and stopped in the small parts section. The small steel blocks I was thinking of are called "Steel Keys". They had one for $1.00 that sits perfectly in the groove of the stock tang, other than needing to be shortened a bit. It could be attached (drill and tap the tang or epoxy it in place) to the tang, and have a small section of Picatinny rail epoxied to the top of it. This would allow the use of just about any rail mounted AR sight. Comparing the Saiga to an AR, it appears that it would already be about the right hieght, maybe a little short, but that could be fixed with a taller block or shims. The main problem being the ridiculous price of the flip-up AR sights. I could buy an SKS or a couple of Nagant's for that price. As a side note. I think a flip up rear sight would be useless without a flip-up front. Anything that the rear sight would be in the way of would apply to the front as well, maybe more so. A real easy way to make a tang mounted peep that doesn't flip, would be to use a large hex key. Attatch the short part to the tang and let the long part stick up. Cut the long part to the right hieght, and JB-weld an M6 nut on the end. You end up with a tang mounted ghost-ring able to accept very inexpensive screw in apertures, for about $1.35. It wouldn't be the coolest looking sight in the world, and wouldn't be adjustable, but the price is right. If it's attached very well, it should be fairly sturdy. I'll probably make one like this at some point this week. I've got the idea in my head now, and it won't go away until I test it. When I do I'll post some pics. May even make the little Picatinny rail thing and post some pics. If anyone has any lingering ideas about easy to make sights floating around in thier heads, feel free to post them. For some reason, cheap gun mods bring a smile to my face. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Onepoint 0 Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 Good to see ingenuity in action. The one thing I notice when making peep sights is the farther from the eye you mount them, the more they become ghost rings instead of true peep sights. They both work, but they work a little different from each other. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Improvisor 0 Posted September 15, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2005 Alright. I made the hex-key tang sight thing. Keep in mind that this whole thing was done, including painting, in about 10 minutes. So, it's butt ugly, but could be made to look better with some fininishing and a different attachment method. You'll probably need to cut the short side of the key to let it clear the stock screw hole. First i coated the tang with a little oil. I made the base by sticking some Magnum Steel (the stick stuff that you knead together) on each side of the hex-key and putting the key in the slot on the tang. I applied a little more Magnum around the top and end of the key, so that it would mold around the key and into the shape of the tang. I waited until it firmed up a little, then pulled it out of the slot. (That sounded dirty ) This left the key with a base molded in the perfect shape of the tang. The oil kept it from sticking to the tang. I let it harden a bit, then drilled a 1/4" hole through the base, so the stock screw would attach the key to the tang. This makes it removable. If you make this sight, and choose to use the Magnum Steel and make a base, I advise you to uses a bit more than I did. My base flexes if you push on it. Making it thicker in the middle should fix that. Also, file around the edges and sand it smooth, that should make it prettier. Now mark the long part of the key just below the height of your original rear sight, and cut it down. Attatch an M6 nut to the top of this contraption with some JB-Weld and let it dry. Paint it. You now have a slightly ugly, non-adjustable peep sight that you can screw on and off your stock tang at will, that will accept williams apertures. Total cost without aperture : about $1.50. Pics: Hex Key (Allen Wrench) Unpainted Back Side with Williams Long Shank aperture Back with Williams Long Shank aperture Again, if you file down the excess JB-weld and make the base smooth and unbent, it will look slightly better than this. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
saiga69 0 Posted January 21, 2007 Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Johnboy 0 Posted January 22, 2007 Report Share Posted January 22, 2007 Welcome aboard man! Here is another idea I had for the Saiga shotgun for use with slugs. I'm setting up one of my S-12s for slugs only. It's a two position peepsight from an M-1 I believe. It slides into a dovetail just like the Saiga shotties have for their rear sights. Only problem is the dovetail base is wider than that of the Saiga rear sight and wont fit in the groove. Im going to try and cut or file it down to fit in the groove. I've been looking at rear peep sights from the old M-1 carbines. They have a very low profile, click windage adjustment and sliding elevation for 'preset' distances. I'm going to look for one at gun shows, or - eBay... They have a dovetail, but I'm thinking about just screwing it to the rear cover. Any thoughts..? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bad Bob 0 Posted January 23, 2007 Report Share Posted January 23, 2007 Welcome aboard man! Here is another idea I had for the Saiga shotgun for use with slugs. I'm setting up one of my S-12s for slugs only. It's a two position peepsight from an M-1 I believe. It slides into a dovetail just like the Saiga shotties have for their rear sights. Only problem is the dovetail base is wider than that of the Saiga rear sight and wont fit in the groove. Im going to try and cut or file it down to fit in the groove. I've been looking at rear peep sights from the old M-1 carbines. They have a very low profile, click windage adjustment and sliding elevation for 'preset' distances. I'm going to look for one at gun shows, or - eBay... They have a dovetail, but I'm thinking about just screwing it to the rear cover. Any thoughts..? If you are going to screw (or solder, or rivet) the sight to the action cover, you might want to check out a rear sight assembly from a Springfield 1903A3. I've haven't seen one 'up close & personal' in years, but I believe they are windage & elevation adjustable, and the trajectory of a lot of .30-06 loads is a lot closer to some .223 loads than the .30 Carbine could ever come, short of nuclear power (meaning the range adjustments on the sight might actually be close enough to use). They look a lot like the M-1 Carbine sights, except for one thing - they use a 'reverse' dovetail (IIRC), so folks are not buying them like the M-1 Carbine sights, to mount on Mini-14 Ranch Rifles (it kind of works, but I wouldn't recommend it - ask me how I know ;>), and other rifles with standard dove tail mounts. Plus, I think the number of M-1 Carbines produced was a lot higher than the 03A3s, so I imagine demand is a lot higher for the carbine parts, among those who are restoring military rifles. My Gun Parts Corporation catalogue (#22, which is a few years old, so the prices are out-of-date) lists the the 03A3 rear sight assembly at $15.55, the milled M-1 Carbine sight at $25.95, and the stamped M-1 Carbine sight at $13.45. So, it looks like the 03A3 sight might be comparable in price to the 'cheapo' M-1 Carbine sight. I think Gun Parts' web address is www.gunpartscorp.com, so you can check there for current prices & availability. Personally, I might try the 03A3 sight, just because the trajectory/range settings would be more useful (if you don't have any reloading manuals, let me know, and I will look up the trajectories of loads similar to the standard US .30-06 & 5.56 service loads - but based on memory, they're pretty close). You might be able to raise or lower either the front AK (using the standard adjustments) or rear 03A3 (using spacers, or by removing material from the bottom) sights to get the 03A3 sight to work 'as marked' - which would be a very definite plus... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bad Bob 0 Posted January 23, 2007 Report Share Posted January 23, 2007 (edited) Personally, I might try the 03A3 sight, just because the trajectory/range settings would be more useful (if you don't have any reloading manuals, let me know, and I will look up the trajectories of loads similar to the standard US .30-06 & 5.56 service loads - but based on memory, they're pretty close). You might be able to raise or lower either the front AK (using the standard adjustments) or rear 03A3 (using spacers, or by removing material from the bottom) sights to get the 03A3 sight to work 'as marked' - which would be a very definite plus... Heck, if the 03A3 sight requires a 'lift' to work with stock AK sights, there might even be an opportunity for someone like dinzag, to offer an after-market 'lift kit' (an aluminum or steel pad, curved to fit the action cover on the bottom, and dove-tailed to fit the 03A3 sight on the top, to raise the 03A3 rear sight so it can be attached to an AK, and used with the stock front sight). It wouldn't cost much to investigate... (Plus, I wouldn't demand credit OR royalties, unlike others on various AK forums... ;>) (Which is not a comment on how much those others might deserve it... ;>) Edited January 23, 2007 by Bad Bob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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