Saiga firing problem 7.62

[12vman 0]

Took my second converted Saiga today to the range. As my other thread mentioned the bolt wasnt closing all the way so it wasnt firing. Worked that issue out but i noticed today that after I fired a couple rounds the gun would just go "click". The bolt seemed to be closed. If I racked the shell out which loaded another it would fire.This happened w/ both the metal 30 round mag and the plastic 10 rd Saiga mag.....What gives?

 

The only thing I did different on this one is that i re used the disconnector spring out of the saiga and put it in the tapco group.....could that be it?

 

Manually cycling the action everything works well

 

could I not be releasing the trigger fully????

 

hell I dont know......Help!

[12vman 0]

thanks for all the help guys...............

[TJohn 8]

So you got it fixed? If so, what did you do?

 

 

Did you shoot it before the conversion, and did it work then?

 

Did you intall a bullet guide? If yes, perhaps you got it too far to the right in the receiver and it is not letting the bolt rotate closed.

 

 

12vman said: "The only thing I did different on this one is that i re used the disconnector spring out of the saiga and put it in the tapco group.....could that be it?"

 

 

That should be fine unless there is some problem with the tapco group. There apparently have been some issues in the past with this.

 

 

Did you function check the trigger group after installation but before installing the bolt and recoil assembly?

 

Have you checked your bolt to see if it is gunked up or if there is something impeding the movement of the firing pin?

Edited May 5, 2012 by TJohn

[mogunner 240]

Gas tube leaking to where it doesn't fully cycle the bolt?

[12vman 0]

So you got it fixed? If so, what did you do?

 

 

Did you shoot it before the conversion, and did it work then?

 

Did you intall a bullet guide? If yes, perhaps you got it too far to the right in the receiver and it is not letting the bolt rotate closed.

 

 

12vman said: "The only thing I did different on this one is that i re used the disconnector spring out of the saiga and put it in the tapco group.....could that be it?"

 

 

That should be fine unless there is some problem with the tapco group. There apparently have been some issues in the past with this.

 

 

Did you function check the trigger group after installation but before installing the bolt and recoil assembly?

 

Have you checked your bolt to see if it is gunked up or if there is something impeding the movement of the firing pin?

 

going to check out the bolt tonight....maybe some metal shaving got into it.........could the hammer spring be weak?

 

also some folks are telling me that I shouldnt re use the saiga disconnector spring and that I should of bought the tapco spring........some say it doesnt matter...what gives?

[G O B 3,516]

Firing pin or extractor retaining pins loose?

[ktz784 0]

hammer is new and catching on the bolt. need to file & smooth the new hammer face down. Also did you modify the hammer on the sides, so the "bolt hold open lever" fits. If you bought the kit from css with modifed hammer, there won't be a problem. If you bought a seperate tapco g2 trigger, you need to modify it or take out the " bolt hold open lever out. Please take a look a css "carolina shooting supplies" picture of modified trigger $45.00. Also replace the hammer spring and disconnector spring, I replace mine less than 300 rds, just went new performance hammer spring $20 and disconnetor spring $1.00. The factory spring tends to slide into to the trigger, and get the trigger stuck, then it won't reset.

Edited May 11, 2012 by smanuta

[12vman 0]

I was told by carolina that the hammer would not need to be modified and i did take the BHO out. i just rec a new Tapco disconnector spring and an aftermarket hammer spring. Will install and test then get back...thanks!!

[Agent Lemon 157]

I was told by carolina that the hammer would not need to be modified and i did take the BHO out. i just rec a new Tapco disconnector spring and an aftermarket hammer spring. Will install and test then get back...thanks!!

 

So then you bought the G2 from CSS?

 

The one that I have bought from them was modded to be using with the BHO. Meaning that if you DONT use the BHO with their G2, then the hammer will have some left/right play. This is because some material has been removed off of the 'sleeve' (the length of the hole that the hammer pin goes through). This little gap is meant to be made tight with no empty spaces by the thickness of the BHO lever.

 

Gas tube leaking to where it doesn't fully cycle the bolt?

 

There were videos of AKs shooting with what looked like a 5 cm gap between end of gas tube and gas chamber. I doubt that its a gas issue.

 

hammer is new and catching on the bolt.

 

This is probably happening as well. Last time I checked (cant check anymore cause I tossed it out the window), the hammer that came with my BHO modded G2 from CSS had a goofy.... wait for it... ROUND hammer face. All the other ones have a flat one. This makes the hammer hit the back of the bolt at an angle, cause retarded resistance onto the bolt carrier, and just be kinda dumb overall.

 

To fix your problem here is what I would do:

 

Put the BHO back into the gun. It sounds like your trigger group is meant to be used with it.

 

Try putting the original hammer back into the gun, to see how flat it hits the back of the bolt. Put the G2 back in. Does it hit at the same angle? Does it need to be re-profiled to hit the firing pin properly?

 

And I would also take some good pictures and post them here. Pictures help a lot, since its not like we can just come over and look at the rifle for ya.

 

I didnt really read the whole thread in detail (its 3am) so I hope that my post isnt unrelated.

 

p.s. i think that what is happening here, is that the hammer has too much play. left/right play due to not having a BHO, coupled with tapco hammer that hits at an incorrect angle, could easily not be hitting the firing pin. Does the rifle fire if you keep trying that same round?

Edited May 12, 2012 by Agent Lemon

[2006 tundra 0]

Hey Guys, I am also dealing with a very similar issue. Did the conversion,looks great. Less than good performance. I also took out the BHO because it was too tight. I took it out to the hills and same thing,first round fired,second round would not. Eject the second round manually and it would fire,sometimes at a very rapid rate. 2-3 round bursts. not cool, especially at the range. I installed a bullet guide from CSS and nothing changed. Now at at the risk of looking like a complete idiot....... I also ground down the part of the safety that sits behind the trigger.Could that be the problem? I dont want to go to the gunsmith,I want to do it myself. Any input from you guys would be greatly appreciated.

[Agent Lemon 157]

Cant even begin to starting thinking about possibly trying to help you unless you post more info.

 

What trigger group are you using? Is it modded to work with a BHO? Where did you get it? if its a tapco, did you check to see if its the defected recall version? can you post pix?

 

What in the hell does "Eject the second round manually and it would fire,sometimes at a very rapid rate. 2-3 round bursts." mean? Does it mean that you go like- round fails to fire. you pull the charging handle back to eject the unfired round, let go of the handle letting it fly home, loading a new round, and then as soon as it gets home, without pulling the trigger it goes into runaway full auto for 2-3 rounds?

 

if this is what you mean, then the 2-3 round burst could be caused by a couple things. I think tapco had a recall about some shit-grade triggers with a problem with the depth of hole on the disconnector. i would google and find out if yours is one of them.

 

second, take your bolt out of the carrier. when you hold it with the extractor facing towards the sky, the firing pin should go inside and not stick out the bolt face. then when you flip it the other way it should stick out the bolt face. the firing pin should go in and out freely. if it sticks, then it could possibly cause slam fires and such.

 

i would try with a different trigger group to see if that solves the problem.

 

P.S. if you take the dust cover off as well as the bolt carrier/bolt/recoil spring and then look at the safety, you will learn what it does. after you removed all the stuff mentioned, engage the safety. notice that the "part of the safety that sits behind the trigger" simply stops the trigger from going forward. after you engage the safety try to pull the trigger. you will see that the metal tab on the safety is keeping the trigger 'leg' from going up and letting the hammer go. generally you dont wanna fuck with it, cause if you remove enough material then you will end up with a safety that does not work. fucking with the safety should not cause the gun to malfunction other than having a messed up safety that does not work.

Edited July 2, 2012 by Agent Lemon

[2006 tundra 0]

G2 single hook, firing pin moves freely. I'll get another safety 'cause I fucked with it. rifle ran great before the conversion. thanks for your help Lemon, I'll figure it out.....and I'll be back with good news hopefully. btw posting pics is a bitch for computer tards like myself.

[Agent Lemon 157]

Well I wanna help cause its really not rocket science. Avtomats of Kalashnikov are beautiful, too, especially when they are made in Russia. And I know what it feels like when your rifle accidentally malfunctions due to user error or otherwise, making the RO give you that look. but I have to know a few things.

 

First, check to see if your trigger suffers from this problem-

http://suburbansdoma...ger-recall.html

 

depending on where you got your g2, I can see a seller potentially having old stock that they sold off to people, unaware of the problems that the recalled FCGs have. If you got yours from a forum vendor, namely CSS, then you should be good to go. Where did you get your FCG?

 

Second, is your FCG (fire control group i.e. trigger group) made to be used with a BHO (bolt hold open, the tab that sticks out the receiver in sporter config.)? If you got yours from CSS, then yes, it is modded to be used with the BHO. One way to tell is to measure the hammers pin hole sleeve, and then measure the factory one. If they are about the same size then the current hammer is made to use the BHO. A regular hammer would be longer. If yours is modded to be used with a BHO but you opt not to use one, then you should put a washer over the retaining pin that holds the hammer in place. The washers should have a collective thickness that is the same size as the BHO. Of course, you want the washers to not be too large in terms of diameter, as that could possibly cause problems too. If you do not do this, then the hammer will have side-to-side play due to not having a BHO to take up the empty space. This could potentially cause problems.

 

Then, what do you mean by "it would fire,sometimes at a very rapid rate. 2-3 round bursts"? If you can describe the whole order of operations as best as possible, it would help explain what the problem is. Does it mean that you go like- round fails to fire. you pull the charging handle back to eject the unfired round, then let go of the handle letting it fly home, which loads a new round into the chamber, and then as soon as it gets home i.e. finishes loading the round into the chamber, without pulling the trigger it goes into runaway full auto for 2-3 rounds? If this is the problem, then I'm pretty sure that the FCG is the problem. If the firing pin moves freely then it means that the pin is not simply setting rounds off when it goes home, meaning that the factory parts of the rifle are working fine, meaning that the FCG is the only thing that could be wrong.

 

Then, when I was new, I once had an accidental 2 round bumpfire using a tapco G2. This is because the G2 has a very short trigger reset, and if you are not used to the recoil, then the recoil could possibly catch you off guard and make you accidentally bump fire. The best way to remedy this IF you think that this is the problem, is to pull the trigger all the way back firmly, as to not allow the recoil to make you bump fire on accident.

 

Basically there are too many variables as of now without you answering some of the questions. If you answer anything in my last posts with a question mark, we will all have more data to work with and help you figure out your problem.

 

What I would do to get to the bottom of this-

 

Invest in an Arsenal FCG (available at k-var. Get the all u.s. made one, be it single or double stage). Now, Arsenal FCGs require the use of a special rivet in order to stop trigger slap, however, the trigger slap can be mostly removed if you put the trigger guard nut on the inside of the receiver. I assume that you use a bolt-on trigger guard, of course. With the #8-32 nut on the inside the receiver on the rear end of the trigger guard, bellow the disconnector tail (which Arsenal FCGs have), you wont get as much trigger slap. Then with the new FCG, take the gun to the range. Make sure to pull the trigger all the way back until after the shot leaves the barrel. Then let the trigger reset and shoot again. Doing this will make sure that you do not accidentally bump fire. If the rifle functions flawlessly (aside form a bit of trigger slap) in this configuration, then you can be sure that the problem you were having was due to the tapco g2 FCG, and not due to any other problems.

 

Installing a bullet guide will not make your gun do a burst. All it does is complete the gap between magazine and chamber, allowing rounds to feed properly form ak mags which lack the extra material unlike the Saiga mags that have extra material added onto the mag.

 

P.S. removing material from the safety lever will not always mess things up. Remove the mag, cock the gun, then engage the safety. Pull the trigger. Does it go off? If not, then you do not have to replace the safety lever. If the gun lets you pull the trigger and release the hammer, then you must replace the safety. Otherwise it should be ok.

 

pps but yeah answer my questions so that we have more info to work with, giving you more guided advice to solve your problem.

[2006 tundra 0]

Thanks Lemon, I'll let you know in a few days when I get it back out there. I really do appreciate your help.

[2006 tundra 0]

Well, it seems the dissconnector spring was missing. I put the stock saiga spring in the g2. will try it out this weekend.

[armedpacifist 0]

I just got back and I have the sane problem with my 7.62. Tapco G2. This is what is happening: put in mag, pull back charging handle, let her fly home. Pull trigger, BANG. Next bullet is chambered but the hammer is already up against the firing before I have pulled the trigger. Obviously, pullng the trigger again does nothing. The gun worked flawlessly before the conversion when I just had the homemade bullet guide in.

Oh, and I did get a nice 3-4 round burst, and it was def not a bump fire. Incredibly exciting and disconcerting as well. I was holding with a death grip, hard to my big shoulders like I always do.

 

Here's what I figured out- if I pulled the trigger with the very tip of my finger such that as it fired my finger completely left the trigger, it would be ready to fire the next round as it ought to. If I pulled the trigger and kept it pulled all the way after the shot, the hammer would not reset. THIS is what I'm thinking is where the problem lies.

 

Q: on your functioning rifles, your trigger will reset if you dry fire, keep the trigger down and pull back the charging handle, correct? And then you completely let go of the trigger, then pull it again and snap, right?

 

It's been a while since I did the conversion and today was my first day out with it. (Fire ban in Colorado included a ban on shooting). Now I'm looking at the FCG and wondering if I installed the center piece of the trigger part of the FCG facing the wrong way. i took a pic but I haven't figured out how to post pictures yet. Any tips?

[armedpacifist 0]

Okay, i spent a little time and I figured out that I made a noob mistake. I never realized that there was a disconnector spring to transfer from the saiga fcg to the tapco. I had no spring in there and the disconnector was never engaging with the hammer. Just the hook. This oversight caused a lot of frustration. Off the reinstall my FCG the right way!

[2006 tundra 0]

Yep, I know how you feel, after I put in the stock spring it fires just how it should. Is it possible the G2 didnt come with a disconnecting spring? All I know, mine is just where and how I want it.

[Mullet Man 2,114]

I've never had a G2 come with a disco spring, always had to transfer the OE spring over to it.

 

That little detail (of needing to transfer the spring) often gets left out of Saiga conversion discussions.

Edited August 24, 2012 by Mullet Man