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Best Mods when PG Conversion is Illegal


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Hi Everyone,

 

I bought a new RWC imported 24" model with adjustable rib sight knowing that I would not be able to do a trigger group conversion due to NJ's State AWB. I plan to use it for casual skeet/trap and steel matches. In NJ a semi-auto shotgun is not allowed to have a "well defined handle, similar to that found on a handgun, that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon, and which permits the firearm to be held and fired with one hand" and folks have reported back that the state police consider thumb hole and skeleton stocks as making semi-auto's into assault weapons.

 

My understanding is that there is no replacement trigger for sporter configurations. I'm looking to plan out my build and I'm a little unsure on what I'm going to get the most "bang for my buck". Advice from those who have gone down this path is much appreciated.

 

So far, in order, what I plan on getting is:

1) Polychoke

2) Second factory stock to mod by adding some weight and texture the top so I can get a more consistent mount (suggestions highly recommended)

3) Send parts to Pauly for polishing and/or gas plugs if cycling is a issue

4) Elevated Front Sight or build/buy elongated rib (Something like this: http://www.izhmash-arms.ru/im/imp/127.html)

 

 

5) Mod my mortgage and job to anywhere besides NY, MA, CA

 

I dream of upgrading to wood furniture but the Ironwood Designs set leaves me to do checkering, possibly an adjustable comb, stain, and end up way too much $ and time into the stock for my first project gun.

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"5) Mod my mortgage and job to anywhere besides NY, MA, CA"

 

+1,000,000

 

When you live surrounded by folks that think an ounce of buckshot is somehow more lethal when fired from a shotgun with a pistol grip than if fired from a double barreled goose gun it is likely that all that stupid might rub off causing youto suffer the mental infirmity of thinking that living near such stupid people is acceptable.

 

Seriously? My dog is smarter than that.

 

Move,

 

now,

 

You'll be so happy later.

  • I ditched CA for WA. More than 85% of my coworkers have CHLs and carry every day.
  • guns in trucks and in public are everywhere
  • The police support armed response by citizens (unless you're a dick about it)
  • Gun stores are fucking everywhere and there is no waiting period for rifles and none for handguns once you get your CHL.
  • I work in a non-gun related field and we still have 3 shooting clubs at my work
  • At church there is more talk about hunting than anything remotely religious

Edited by preparehandbook
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Laws even more restrictive than NY regarding shotgun thumb hole and skeleton stocks?

 

That stinks.

 

Maybe if you can get it to fail to cycle consistently enough, you can get an exemption in NJ as a non-semiauto Saiga. Problem solved. ;)

 

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Dinzag sells modified G2 trigger groups for use in sporter configuration Saigas.

 

That sporter pistol grip Saiga on the upper right of that Izhmash page that was linked to is pretty crazy. Why haven't I seen anyone with one of those yet..

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Is the tapco sporter fcg actually an improvement over the factory's proprietary bucket o' suck or just the same/similar thing but American made for 922r compliance seekers? My understanding was that the distance was as much at fault for the mushy trigger as the factory trigger design.

 

I don't have to worry about 922r because 7 shells in a semi makes a NJ assault weapon...

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Yes and no, if you'll field strip yours you'll see that the Russians retro-fitted the sporter trigger in there for importation purposes. If the weapon had been designed to be sporterized it would have a FAR different trigger system instead of a system of levers...

 

In my experience, the Tapco G2 is one of the best trigger systems out there. The sear holds the hammer low for minimal drag on the bolt carrier and it can be "tuned" for a pretty sweet and crisp trigger pull. I intentionally filed mine in such a way as to provide a bit of "stacking" right before the sear releases the hammer but overall I don't think my trigger pull breaks at over 3 lbs...

 

The sporter trigger is a decent trigger but it is very lacking when compared to the original design. One MIGHT be able to get some tiny files in there and work some of the edges to smooth it up a bit but it will always be a retro-fit hack-job.

 

The way some gun laws are written, there are tiny loopholes that one can use to their advantage, I'd get with some gun-guys and see if I could figure some of those loopholes out. For instance, in California, the LCP isn't legally able to be sold due to mag capacity and barrel length so if one were to remove the barrel and replace it with a 10" barrel and then modify a mag to hold only one round, it's a 10" barrel single-shot pistol. Here's the kicker, one can buy the weapon that way, then immediately turn around and put the stock length barrel back in it and use whatever mags they choose once the weapon is purchased.

 

Maybe something like that exists in NJ that will allow you to side-step a stupid law...

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Stock Saiga triggers vary.

 

Mine have been mediocre, well in line with other stock AK's, at least as far as feel. The complexity of it bugged me though.

 

I have a buddy who's something like 6'7" who runs a stock Saiga because it fits him well. He went to the local gun shop and tried the triggers on 8 or 9 that came in the last shipment, he found one with a great trigger, crisp, light, no drag.

 

Russian manufacture is nothing if not inconsistent.

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That sporter pistol grip Saiga on the upper right of that Izhmash page that was linked to is pretty crazy. Why haven't I seen anyone with one of those yet..

 

My question is "why WOULD you see anyone with one of those?"

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The one on the top right is the configuration I want! There are people like me who enjoy clay sports and that's the ideal configuration for doing so. And as for why? This is America and I want to express my freedom with an AK pattern shotgun for the occasional Skeet, sporting clays, and steel match. And if I really wanted I could paint it pink, put fake Obama-Palin stickers on it, and troll the everliving shit out of the fudds. God bless America.

 

As far as trying to find loopholes, NJ is well known for screwing over sportsman and not distinguishing us from criminals. Case in point, see smallestminority.blogspot.com/2003/11/new-jersey-considers-this-to-be.html?m=1. A man won a tube fed 22 semi and safe queened it tags and all. But it years later it was found and he was found guilty of owning a assault weapon. The courts suggestion when dealing with NJ's vague laws? "When dealing with guns, the citizen acts at his peril." NJ does not have a 2nd amendment in its state constitution.

 

So, rather than focusing on letting me become case law in the event my Saiga annoys a cop at a range, can someone address my original request for advice on making the best sporter possible without breaking the bank?

Edited by jaii
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If you have the knowledge/ability, you can actually go into the stock linkage and modify it to where it becomes an exceptionally good trigger. Check out this link to my sub forum and you will find a straight stock Saiga 12 that shoots like a dream!

 

This is the flattest, fastest, softest shooting Saiga Shotgun I have ever shot, Period!!

 

If you are interested, I can walk you through the mods.

 

Regards,

 

Jack

 

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/72526-straight-stock-non-converted-open-division-competition-saiga-12/

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Is the tapco sporter fcg actually an improvement over the factory's proprietary bucket o' suck or just the same/similar thing but American made for 922r compliance seekers? My understanding was that the distance was as much at fault for the mushy trigger as the factory trigger design.

 

I don't have to worry about 922r because 7 shells in a semi makes a NJ assault weapon...

 

 

You can't do much about the teeter totter, but the actual OEM Russian trigger body with hook and the disconnector and hammer themselves are fine. They could just use a decent polish, because the surfaces don't necessarily have a smooth finish or even mating of planes. A super fine diamond hone (Eze-lap easily makes the best) is a good way to polish these parts without unintentionally changing angles or rounding surfaces. that are supposed to be flat. Pulling the retaining wire out and stoning all of these would slick your trigger up.

 

I think, but am not sure that dinzag's trigger group is just a tapco with the normal hammer modification and the trigger itself cut off. You could buy a normal tapco FCG and grind off the trigger, do the hammer axle mod and the hammer profile and have a quality smooth trigger. you could do the step cut in a double hook to limit over travel as well. I am not sure if the tail (aka legs) of the G2 would engage the teeter totter lever the same way. There may need to be some filing done there, or maybe even added material.

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Is the tapco sporter fcg actually an improvement over the factory's proprietary bucket o' suck or just the same/similar thing but American made for 922r compliance seekers? My understanding was that the distance was as much at fault for the mushy trigger as the factory trigger design.

 

I don't have to worry about 922r because 7 shells in a semi makes a NJ assault weapon...

 

 

 

I think, but am not sure that dinzag's trigger group is just a tapco with the normal hammer modification and the trigger itself cut off. You could buy a normal tapco FCG and grind off the trigger, do the hammer axle mod and the hammer profile and have a quality smooth trigger. you could do the step cut in a double hook to limit over travel as well.

 

this is about the best advice your going to get, the dinzag trigger is just a modified tapco

Edited by Russian Hammer
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I am not familiar with the Dinzag Trigger (?), but what you guys are talking about is basically what I have done to improve the FCG on a stock gun. Machine off the trigger to where it is a flat base on the disconnect/single hook sear and replace the factory unit. Also the usual smoothing out of the contact/engagement surfaces of the parts to include the replacement Tapco Hammer.

 

Also weld up the legs for minimal pre and over travel. The unit will become very clean and rival the best triggers one can do on this platform.

 

Jack

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jaii-- The best advice I can give is for you to take up Jack Travers on his offer of detailed info. He is a master builder, and makes world class competition guns, of the sort that national champions run. Most of the rest of us are amateur enthusiasts at best or know-it-alls if not. Without sucking up at all, I can say that he is helpful and knows what he is talking about.

 

Here is the gun he was talking about: http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/72526-straight-stock-non-converted-open-division-competition-saiga-12/

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Thanks everyone for your advice! Jack, I can fully appreciate someone who takes the time to figure something out and do it right and having researched extensively for months before getting into this gun I had seen a lot of your work and products. Thanks for all you're contributions to the Saiga 12 lovers here in America!

 

Unfortunately I have a lifelong curse of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Being the school beating stick didn't encourage me to go for a second round of shop class as much as I enjoyed (and still do as per my basement shop) carpentry. I distinctly remember someone telling a girl something that caused her to spend 5 minutes chasing me with a claw hammer as I ducked every time she pump-faked it toward my head.

 

Asides aside, this is my first project gun and purchasing the equipment and learning welding is too much. I'll PM you for a quote on the trigger job and hopefully take you up on it in the near future as the long trigger is one of my biggest complaints. I'm only 3.5 months into being able to purchase firearms (booo FID's) and the ol' piggy bank's been raided so much that I'm going to have to put a French flag on it.

 

What is the best way to increase weight to decrease felt recoil? I imagine epoxy on some rebar into the stock?

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People have used bags of leadshot. I put ziplock of rice into mine for a while, which works better than it sounds. If you want to go a bit better than simple weight, google C&H mercury tubes. (if you keep the overall diameter of the tube at 3/4" It will drop right into the cleaning tube recess for classic AK stocks) I have a 7/8" 16 oz mercury tube in one of mine, that I put into the factory stock while I was using that. 16 oz may have been a bit overkill, but it does help with recoil and it did make the gun feel more balanced.

 

You can fill in the rest of the space with spray foam, which makes the stock not feel so cheap and hollow.

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I'm no physicist, but shouldn't a solid object be used and somehow bound to the stock to do that? If I a bag of shot or rice in, won't it just move inside the stock providing little to counteract the linear force backwards?

 

I do like the spray foam idea though, I hate the "hollow" sound the stock makes.

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