my s12 is cycling like crap (local help in CO requested)

[reapur 1]

Hi Guys,

I have a converted s12 that is cycling like crap even after I did:

 

1- replaced the spring with the css performance recoil spring

2- MD arms vplug

3- Glassbolt by pauly (oooh the action is soo smooth now)

4- I got a puc from a company that is no longer around, can't remember the name but it was supposed to clean the gas port while cycling. I've noticed this puc doesn't run up and down the gas port smoothly, it kind of sticks to the sides and needs a bang to get it out, so maybe it's time for a new one.

 

When I look at the gas ports, I cleary see two and one is kind of half exposed/half hidden under some metal.

 

The only thing I can think of now is getting a new puc (either css performance puc or MD booster puc), OR find a gunsmith who can fix the gas ports <<< this is something I have no idea how to do.

 

so my questions:

1- which puc to go with next CSS or MD

2- Anyone in colorado (front range area) who can help me with fixing the gas system?

 

Best Regards

[Fallschirmjager667 729]

number 4 might be your problem, that's most likely an etac puc, just to give you an idea, the guy who made them had a forum name of "jammer" replace it with the factory puc and factory recoil spring and go from there

[BOB A. BOOEY 45]

What kind of ammo would be helpful dude...

[reapur 1]

that's right it is an etac. I'll try that, maybe I can get to the range today

Ammo is walmart federal bulk, and winchester bulk. I tried cycling some federal game loads also same result. I honestly can't remember if I cycled high brass through it, maybe last year..

 

cheers

[Fallschirmjager667 729]

just use federal for your testing, winchester is junk ammo and quality control issues can cause you problems so while you are trying to get your gun to cycle stick to federal

[Razr 23]

Hi Guys,

I have a converted s12 that is cycling like crap even after I did:

 

1- replaced the spring with the css performance recoil spring

2- MD arms vplug

3- Glassbolt by pauly (oooh the action is soo smooth now)

4- I got a puc from a company that is no longer around, can't remember the name but it was supposed to clean the gas port while cycling. I've noticed this puc doesn't run up and down the gas port smoothly, it kind of sticks to the sides and needs a bang to get it out, so maybe it's time for a new one.

 

When I look at the gas ports, I cleary see two and one is kind of half exposed/half hidden under some metal.

 

The only thing I can think of now is getting a new puc (either css performance puc or MD booster puc), OR find a gunsmith who can fix the gas ports <<< this is something I have no idea how to do.

 

so my questions:

1- which puc to go with next CSS or MD

2- Anyone in colorado (front range area) who can help me with fixing the gas system?

 

Best Regards

 

CSS or KA puc is very good plus enlarge gas ports.

[gunfun 3,931]

Eliminate variables. Start with factory spec, and change one thing at a time. As RH said, put in your factory puck and spring. The spring controls dwell time, so you really shouldn't use a weaker one. Lots of people had bad results with that twister puck. OEM equivalent pucks can be had that are USA made for 922r Tapco $8, MD $10... Arsenal.... Booster pucks will give a very mild boost, and drilling is a better way to go.

 

If it needs bigger ports, it needs bigger ports. Seriously. Read the stickies on that. It is easier than it looks. For most people, the block comes off in 20 minutes. scribe the block and barrel to keep alignment. Punch out 2 pins, turn the gas plug between settings to hold the detente. Put the barrel on a block of wood. Use a chunk of aluminum or brass as a punch and drive the block with a big hammer. Step up the port size in small increments. Re assemble and test. Use the soft metal to pad the block when driving the block back on(removing the gas plug,etc.) make sure your scribe marks line up. Do it again with a bigger drill if it won't run Federal bulk on #2 with the stock plug, spring and puck. Whole process should take about 40 minutes per dis-assembly, drill, & reassembly.

 

Federal Bulk is the normal baseline, and a good buy for range time. I do say you should tune it to run the Winchester too, while you are at it. If it runs Walmart Winchester bulk, it will run everything.

Edited May 9, 2012 by GunFun

[Fallschirmjager667 729]

if you do use a booster puck, try the CSS first as the MD arms shouldn't be used with high brass

[Dochartaigh 7]

When I look at the gas ports, I cleary see two and one is kind of half exposed/half hidden under some metal.

 

The only thing I can think of now is getting a new puc (either css performance puc or MD booster puc), OR find a gunsmith who can fix the gas ports <<< this is something I have no idea how to do.

 

Here's the stickied post here on how to clear the gas ports:

 

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/33836-modification-to-repair-fte-issues-on-saigas-with-blocked-gas-ports/

[dayofruin 425]

Open your gas ports.

[reapur 1]

Thanks guys, I couldn't make it to the range today to test out all the suggestions, but I will in the next couple days, hopefully the weather holds up.

Thanks for the suggestions and the link to open up the ports, I do wish they would have done this and then let us control pressure with the gas plug.

 

cheers

[erwos 12]

Open your gas ports.

Disagree. I've got a gun with the same port config that runs pretty well. He should consider a CSS puc/piston for the boost, and maybe try running some slugs through. Might also want to double-check the lubrication.

[Parf 19]

Have you put 500 shells through it? Have you cycled it by hand, dry firing it for a couple of hours worth of time, as fast as you can?

[roachtron 49]

How often is it jamming? I would try the stock puck like suggested, if that doesn't help you need to enlarge the ports.

[gunfun 3,931]

Open your gas ports.

Disagree. I've got a gun with the same port config that runs pretty well. He should consider a CSS puc/piston for the boost, and maybe try running some slugs through. Might also want to double-check the lubrication.

 

I am not sure how you can disagree and say your gun was in the same configuration.... You don't even know what port sizes he has or how obstructed his 3rd holes is. You also don't know how often his was failing...Small differences there make a big difference in effect. More than just having the same choices of parts, and Pauly's service.

 

Pucks can turn a gun that runs federal say 95% of the time into 100%, but they aren't going to make a gun that fails to feed every fifth shell work every time.

 

How do I know? I have the original booster puck, the KA tappet. I had a gun that was almost 100% with federal, but about 95% with winchester. Putting in the plug made it run winchester 100%. A couple years later winchester's ammo got worse, so I opted to run a standard puck and do the gas work. I can now run ammo weaker than winchester, and my gasblock stays clean.

[Paulyski 2,227]

First thing I would do is ditch the twister puc.

I like the CSS Performance Puc for borderline guns, or the MD Booster.

Factory beats the twister. I put the CSS performance puc in whether they need a boost or not. It's a very good product that not only increases performance, but helps protect the carrier being as earlier contact with the op-rod is less violnet, thus transfers less sudden energy to the carrier.

Ditch the twister before trying to tune further, and clean/measure the ports with the gauges/cleaners that I sent with GlassBolt would be my first advise.

Also, if using a UTG quad, try taking it off to test.

UTG quads clamp down on the gas system & the S-12 will not tolerate that.

They can be modified not to clamp down on the gas system though.

 

PM if you run into further issues, as I don't read the forum but maybe once or twice a month & I can walk you through a few things that I do to tune the guns further than GlassBolt.

If you do the ports, I'd personally advise not going over 3 @ .093" (3/32" bit) I've never had to & guns I've tuned, without fail run all but the absolute weakest ammos which are specified for break-action or pump ONLY on the boxes. If it seems like it needs more, there's something else going on that needs to be addressed.

If my combination is ejecting 3" magnum slugs 6' to the two-O'clock on setting 1 of V-plugs, logic dictates that any more gas is overkill.

Pounding it into submission is unneeded & will reduce long term service life, primarily of the carrier if one ever has to survive with the weapon & shifts to using primarily high powered loads.

For a race-gun, or a bird-shot baby, sure, be lazy & drill till it runs, but personally I see every privately owned firearm as part of the people's last line of defense & believe in tuning them as such.

Good luck.

Pauly

[reapur 1]

Thanks guys,

Wow, awesome feedback. I do have a bunch to try.

I have a css on order. all OEM parts restored waiting a trip to the range for testing.

My quad is Chaos

It's really hard to put 500 rounds thru it when I basically have to pull out every other shell by hand.

It fails to eject at least twice on a 10 round mag, sometimes even every other shell (it's super irritating)

Pauly I got all the tools you sent, I'll see if I can break the gun down and get to the ports to measure them. I'll use the stickied post for guidance.

I'm 99% sure it's a gas system problem, the action is so smooth I cycle it with my pinky, so like you guys said either the springs, puc or the ports.

 

Cheers

Edited May 11, 2012 by reapur

[Paulyski 2,227]

With the Port gauge/cleaners, you don't have to break the weapon down unless a port is obstructed too much.

That's why they're bent at the angle they are.

 

Now, if that port's just slightly obstructed, keep in mind that the underside of that hole in the gas-block is beveled & larger on the side you cannot see, so the port might not really be all that obstructed.

Fitting a gauge in there to clean might be tough though, depending on the obstruction.

[reapur 1]

Hi Guys,

Holy cow, it's been a month since I last went to the range, how sad!

Anyhoo, I wanted to thank everyone again, I got the siaga cycling

I basically went back to stock parts (all this with Federal bulk) and it kept failing.

I tried the CSS puc, noticed an improvement , but got stuck again.

I remove the stock plug and used the vplug, better, but still jams once in a while.

I then used the softer CSS spring, Vplug on the second + and it started to cycle properly. I shot about 75 thru it without any jams.

Then I tried some winchester, and I'm convinced this ammo is crap in the saiga, jammed all the time, FTE.

 

So basically the CSS reliabilty (even though) I bought it in parts before it was a kit, vplug, and I think most importantly the glass bolt helped this S12 cycle cheap ammo.

I put the puc in so the flat surface is toward the muzzle, I'll double check but I think that's the right way.

Now I need to find a pallet and go make some toothpicks

 

Cheers

[RedChallenger 149]

Mine cycles Winchester bulk with no problems, even using a promag drum.

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

Winchester ammo is fine. These weapons can be extremely reliable with it.

[Paulyski 2,227]

Unless you have 3 ports at .063"...

Then, it can be a bitch.

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

Unless you have 3 ports at .063"...

Then, it can be a bitch.

Absolutely

[Paulyski 2,227]

Unless you have 3 ports at .063"...

Then, it can be a bitch.

Absolutely

Uh-ohhh....

You gave me the winkie thingie.......

Now, don't take that statement to mean I'd personally go over 3 @ .093" or 4 @ .076...

I get them to run Winchester crap-pack #8 like that. Now, granted, they won't run the stuff that says for break action only, but if I have people reporting 3" magnum slugs properly ejecting on the V-plug setting 1 with the above, I really don't want any more.

 

I know a lot of people don't run the really powerful stuff, and that's fine, whatever floats their boats. I, personally, just won't go any further.

YMMV.

 

ETA;

Yeah.... I know...

In retrospect, that second line there sounds bad....

Edited June 25, 2012 by PauIy

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

I think you read a little too deep there. Simply stated, I agree.

[Paulyski 2,227]

[defcon 21]

Hi Guys,

Holy cow, it's been a month since I last went to the range, how sad!

Anyhoo, I wanted to thank everyone again, I got the siaga cycling

I basically went back to stock parts (all this with Federal bulk) and it kept failing.

I tried the CSS puc, noticed an improvement , but got stuck again.

I remove the stock plug and used the vplug, better, but still jams once in a while.

I then used the softer CSS spring, Vplug on the second + and it started to cycle properly. I shot about 75 thru it without any jams.

Then I tried some winchester, and I'm convinced this ammo is crap in the saiga, jammed all the time, FTE.

 

So basically the CSS reliabilty (even though) I bought it in parts before it was a kit, vplug, and I think most importantly the glass bolt helped this S12 cycle cheap ammo.

I put the puc in so the flat surface is toward the muzzle, I'll double check but I think that's the right way.

Now I need to find a pallet and go make some toothpicks

 

Cheers

 

i also have the chaos titan rail and the winchester would fail to eject every single round. i didnt touch the gas ports. i also have the CSS puck, CSS spring, MD Vplug.

 

mine hasnt been broken in yet. ive literally shot only 10 rounds. i still need to find more range time to test out other ammo outdoors.

 

indoors we're limited to low brass.

Edited June 25, 2012 by defcon

[reapur 1]

OK, so I took off the gas block per this:

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/33836-modification-to-repair-fte-issues-on-saigas-with-blocked-gas-ports/

 

Pauly the tools you provided say .09, .08, .07

I have three ports, one was .07, the other two were smaller, so I took a drill bit that fit in and just ran it a little bit, now I can fit the .07 in there.

Then I worked the .08 in by hand, just inserting a little bit and turning, and now they are .08.

Now I'm wondering if I need to make that hole into a D like that post says, since one of my ports is almost totally blocked, but it's on the side, so extending it down won't help, I need to go out to the left (looking at it from the top with the muzzle away).