RS Regulate AKM on S-12 (IZ-109)

[Atomic Punk 25]

I want to put a 30MM Aimpoint on my shotgun but still want to have the stock sights available. Will the AKM allow co-witness on the S-12 or should I go with something slightly higher and have the stock sights sit below the RDS for back up use?

 

I installed the beryl folding stock and the OEM sights provide a pretty good natural point of aim. I don't want the RDS so high I end up with a chin weld.

 

All recommendations and any pictures of your setups are appreciated.

Edited May 12, 2012 by Atomic Punk

[Horse 39]

It's really a preference thing.

 

I prefer cowitness, others don't.

 

What do you prefer?

[joebanda1213 59]

No cowitness and it blocks irons... This is on a regular iz109

 

Saiga shotgun sights are too low profile for anything to cowitness IMO.

Edited May 12, 2012 by Jbanda1213

[Atomic Punk 25]

Horse, I like co-witness if I can get it but not bottom 1/20th. The stock sights are really low.

 

No cowitness and it blocks irons... This is on a regular iz109

 

Saiga shotgun sights are too low profile for anything to cowitness IMO.

 

Thanks. That's what I thought but wanted to know from someone whose tried it.

 

Will one of the Kalinka or Molot sight mounts get me up enough to use the stock sights but not so high I need a chinweld?

 

Edit: Scratch the PK-01V. I read in another thread that its the same height as the RS AKM.

Edited May 12, 2012 by Atomic Punk

[Horse 39]

Remember that this will vary slightly rifle to rifle. Some people have lower 1/3 cowitness on their S12's and some can't.

 

I can't see the image above, but a lot of the issue is the specific optic you use. The RS mounts are made for Aimpoint optics, and will usually lower 1/3 cowitness with them, if the rifle has normal sights. Some of the Aimpoint clones have tubes that are smaller in the inside than Aimpoint models and this effects the ability to cowitness as well.

 

Hope this helps.

[Dochartaigh 7]

Horse, even with my RS Regulate mount and a Primary Arms Micro red-dot (which sits maybe 2mm higher than a real Aimpoint Micro), I still can't co-witness (even a lower 1/3rd co-witness) with the stock Saiga-12 sights. It's quite a bit higher. Both of those optics (P.A. Micro and Aimpoint Micro) sit lower than something like an Aimpoint Comp 4.

 

Perhaps a dust cover rail would make one of the small optics sit even lower yet for a co-witness?

[dieb4iwake 60]

take it from someone who uses Horses mount with an aimpoint (ill post pics one day). the stock S12 sights suck but u can def cowitness. if you want to run the setup on a 7.62 or anything besides an S12 you will be satisfied. If you add a front sight post to your S12 you will be happier but the stock sights are horrible but you can still cowitness

[corbin 621]

What about using Krebs iron sights? Those are a little higher, though I'm not sure if the center of the ghost right is that much higher.

[Horse 39]

Ah - I looked up a 109 - essentially it has a shotgun bead sight system, not the mil spec rear leaf etc. that would explain it.

 

 

[RED333 1,025]

Unless you raise the S12 sights somehow you will not get a cowitness.

I think the stock S12 sights are ok, but did not like how low they are.

So I put a rail over the gas tube and mounted a red dot, Shoots 100 yards

with slugs great.

[Atomic Punk 25]

Ah - I looked up a 109 - essentially it has a shotgun bead sight system, not the mil spec rear leaf etc. that would explain it.

 

Exactly

 

Anyone using another 30mm side mount on a 109?

[corbin 621]

A few days ago. I received a Primary Arms 30mm red dot and an RS AKM mount for it. Really quality mount, I'll say that. I'm running a Krebs rear ghost ring and an elevated "Krebs like" front sight base, from MAA. You CAN see the sights through the tube, but they are about 50% covered when you line the irons up. Still a great setup though. Fast and easy to install and remove, can be centered left to right (with optional locking pins, if you want) and provides clear view of sights on a Saiga rifle.

 

A few things I don't like with this combo though:

• The PA 30mm red dot must be exactly 30mm OD and the ring on the RS must be exactly 30mm ID, cuz even with the ring screws tightened, the PA can twist with moderate effort. If using this scope, you can either put a single layer of electrical tape inside the ring halves (or around the scope, if you'd rather), or you can file/sand down the flat, mating surfaces on the ring a tad. For heavy kicking weapons using scopes, I usually put a piece of electrical tape on the rings anyway. That solved the problem, and can't be seen, so I'm happy.
  
• The RS mount will hold the optic very low, which is great......but there's a trade off. If you use the slip on flip up cover for the objective (front) end, it will touch the top of the dust cover, which might affect the ease of removing it for fieldstripping. Not a major deal, but something I noticed. If on a rifle, I guess it's possible that contact could affect accuracy. For a 1X red dot though, it doesn't matter that much. A possible alternative might be a kill flash, but I don't know that they make one that screws into the objective. The only ones I've seen are the ones in the slip on flip up style. A kill flash might cover up more of the iron sights too, I presume.
  
• Related to the above issue is that the front flip up cover will not clear the rear sight on a rifle. You have to flip your rear sight leaf up in order to open the cover, then flip your rear sight back down. Not an issue for most Shotguns, but I thought I'd mention it for the rifles (or if you have rifle sights on your S12).
  
• The RS mount has a dovetail that allows the ring and optic to be adjusted left to right. This is a nice feature, BUT..........on my Saigas (and I suspect all Saigas), when you have the mount adjusted to center the optic, it leaves a sharp dovetail sticking out the left side that's easy to catch yourself with. I used a file to slightly round off the corners, then touched it back up with a "paint pen".
  
• This may not be an issue for you, or it might, depending on your setup. I'm running an internal receiver block with an ACE folding mechanism set up to fold to the left. This has a rounded hinge sticking out on the left side at the back of the receiver. This hump blocks the RS mount (and most others, I suspect) from being able to slide onto the scope rail. You can solve this problem a few ways: 1. Don't use a folding mechanism. 2. Have it fold to the right, so long as everything will clear the charging handle (my issue). 3. Have a different folding mechanism without that hump out the side (100 series, etc). 4. Leave the mount on the weapon with the folding mechanism in place, since you wouldn't be able to remove it without taking the mechanism off first. 5. Modify the RS mount (or the side rail) to allow it to slide onto the side rail forward of the folding mechanism. I'm not sure how well this would work, but it's something I'm looking into.
  

I think that covers it. I WAS going to write up a review in its own thread, but this seems like a decent place to put it.

Edited June 14, 2012 by Corbin

[Horse 39]

Great post Corbin!

 

A couple points (that you hit on nicely):

 

The PA 30mm optic is slightly undersized from 30mm as you indicated. It is industry standard practice to use the electrical tape fix for undersized bodies.

 

The ring is specced to clamp just enough to grab an Aimpoint properly without crushing it. This is such a big problem that all newly designed red dots from Aimpoint have proprietary bases (like the Micro and M4 etc). The PA and other Aimpoint clones are also smaller though the tube than the Aimpoint models which impacts the cowitness.

 

As far as using the mounts with ACE stocks, we just completed a running change to a new style lower that makes this a non-issue. The original required a longer length dovetail interface to the rifle that caused the base to try and occupy the same space as the hinge. Now it will fit properly.

 

For the fangs as I call them - the AKML's have a new profile I call the Ken cut (named for Hackathorn who suggested the difference). This small change takes the majority of the bite out of the fangs without impacting the strength. The current AKM's were produced before the Ken cut was implemented.

 

Keep up the work- I am always looking for ways to improve the product. Without feedback like yours we would not be able to make the product the best it could be. I greatly appreciate the feedback, keep it coming.

[dieb4iwake 60]

my aimpoint comp M2 is 30mm and the RS ring does not move, wiggle, or do anything other than hold steady even with the recoil from slugs in the S12

[corbin 621]

Thanks Horse.

 

I'll need to see how the new ones are made and if I'll be able to modify my mount in a similar fashion. I'm particularly interested in being able to keep the left side folding mechanism. As I see it, removal of the front 3/4" or so from the rail mount interface on the AKM should solve the issue for me.