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Vepr 308 Mag Doesn't Lock Into Place

vepr 308 super csspecs

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#1 SpetsnazGRU

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 07:33 AM

Hey,

I just received a couple of your Vepr 308 20 rounders for my Vepr Super 308. As expected, the mags look and feel great! I've only tried one so far and unfortunately, it doesn't quite lock into place, by just a hair. I thought that I would post this here, instead of contacting you directly, in case that someone else runs into this problem and has the same question.

Any way, I assume that I have to file or sand either the front or the rear catch on the mag? What do you suggest? Thanks a lot.

#2 csspecs

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 11:54 PM

Sorry, my wife had me visiting family today.

Red area shows roughly the area that is adjusted to fit, the exact amount will vary rifle to rifle (just an illustrative model, its not to scale).

Be sure the the upper face of the rear lug is contacting the rifles receiver prior to removing material... If there is a gap, then the front catch needs a swipe or two with a file..

Normally for fitting magazines I use a 6 or 8 inch single cut file, however any medium to fine file with likely do the job.. Sand paper can also work but will take a little more time.

Posted Image

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#3 SpetsnazGRU

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 12:27 AM

Sorry, my wife had me visiting family today.

Red area shows roughly the area that is adjusted to fit, the exact amount will vary rifle to rifle (just an illustrative model, its not to scale).

Be sure the the upper face of the rear lug is contacting the rifles receiver prior to removing material... If there is a gap, then the front catch needs a swipe or two with a file..

Normally for fitting magazines I use a 6 or 8 inch single cut file, however any medium to fine file with likely do the job.. Sand paper can also work but will take a little more time.

Posted Image


Thanks. It turned out that the second mag needs a little fitting too. Unfortunately, I seem to have lost the only flat file that I had around the house. :) Will borrow or buy one during the week and will let you know how it goes.

#4 RED333

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 08:37 AM

Sand paper on a flat board will work.
OL diamond nail file is a good option as well,
just dont get caught.

Rednecks run the Brits out of this country years ago,
I will defend this country from anyone or thing that tries to take it from me or mine
I AM A REDNECK!!!
"If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government,our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." Samuel Adams, 1776

As a wise man once said, "If they keep cornering and harassing the rattlesnake, it will have no option but to strike back."


#5 csspecs

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 10:22 AM

Nail file? I'd rather get caught buying a gun without permission than using the one's nail file.

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For metal Saiga-12, Saiga .308 and Vepr .308 magazines.

 

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#6 SpetsnazGRU

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 12:56 PM

Sand paper on a flat board will work.
OL diamond nail file is a good option as well,
just dont get caught.


Alright. Let me break out my manicure kit here and put on some lipstick while I'm at it. LOL.

#7 RED333

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 07:21 PM

You laugh, there is a diamond nail file that cuts steel like no bodys buisness.
Look for it at wally world.
Hey Spets how about a pic of that, you in lipstickPosted Image
Come on guys, use what ya got.

Rednecks run the Brits out of this country years ago,
I will defend this country from anyone or thing that tries to take it from me or mine
I AM A REDNECK!!!
"If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government,our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." Samuel Adams, 1776

As a wise man once said, "If they keep cornering and harassing the rattlesnake, it will have no option but to strike back."


#8 SpetsnazGRU

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 01:37 AM

Ok... so I had a go at it tonight - spent about an hour and a lot of "elbow grease" filing the rear locking lug. Still no go. Posted Image
This is where I'm at now: Unmodified CSSpec 20 rd on the right, filed one of the left and a factory mag sitting on top of it:

IMG_0563.jpg

Looks like I have quite a ways to go, as far the part of the locking lug closest to the mag body and I might have already filed a bit too much off the edge of the lug there. I'm not very experiencing at filing stuff. I'm having difficultly with correctly applying the force required to remove the material closest to the mag's body. I'm done for tonight, but I think that I'm just going to fire up my dremel with a grinder bit the next time. I just hope that I don't fuck this up too much.

CSSpecs: Looking at the factory Vepr 308 mags (which fit and lock in perfectly), I am thinking that you might have way too much extra steel (vertical thickness) on the these locking lugs.

Edited by SpetsnazGRU, 17 May 2012 - 02:05 AM.


#9 csspecs

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 10:03 AM

They all lock into our test rifle. I could make them exactly like the factory but they will wiggle in some rifles, and most of my customers find that to be unacceptable.

What generates the variations is the locations of the front trunnion and the catch tower.. Both can be closer or farther away from each other when they are riveted, its just the nature of AK pattern rifles. The poly mag has up and down play in some rifles, and can be tight in others, most people won't ever notice their mag is loose since the poly mag is such a tight fit on the sides.

One thing that might be good to look at before going crazy with the grinder. Check if the feed lips are firmly contacting the bolt rails, and then check if the top of the rear lug has any gap between it and the receiver.. If you have contact on the feed lips and a gap under the rear lug, then your trunnion is a couple thousandths tight and you should take a couple swipes off the under side of the front lug of the magazine... If you don't have both of those conditions than continue fitting the rear lug.

The veprs are very consistent, but even still they are riveted stampings and WILL have a few small deviations rifle to rifle..

http://stores.csspecs.com/
For metal Saiga-12, Saiga .308 and Vepr .308 magazines.

 

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#10 SpetsnazGRU

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 03:13 PM

They all lock into our test rifle. I could make them exactly like the factory but they will wiggle in some rifles, and most of my customers find that to be unacceptable.

What generates the variations is the locations of the front trunnion and the catch tower.. Both can be closer or farther away from each other when they are riveted, its just the nature of AK pattern rifles. The poly mag has up and down play in some rifles, and can be tight in others, most people won't ever notice their mag is loose since the poly mag is such a tight fit on the sides.

One thing that might be good to look at before going crazy with the grinder. Check if the feed lips are firmly contacting the bolt rails, and then check if the top of the rear lug has any gap between it and the receiver.. If you have contact on the feed lips and a gap under the rear lug, then your trunnion is a couple thousandths tight and you should take a couple swipes off the under side of the front lug of the magazine... If you don't have both of those conditions than continue fitting the rear lug.

The veprs are very consistent, but even still they are riveted stampings and WILL have a few small deviations rifle to rifle..



Did you test with a Super(s)? Just curious... there might be something (slightly) different about them. Any way, I worked on the mags again last night.

First, the success story... the mag which hasn't been pre-mangled with a file... I took this mag and began to polish off the bottom of the locking lug with a dremel by (very) carefully using the top of a standard cut-off wheel on low speed. This worked very well. I kept removing more material and trying the mag in the rifle, until it just barely locked in (required a little spank). I figured that that's enough and that it's going to break itself in to where it locks in without the "spank", after a little use. It ejects very well using the Super's "assisted" mag release (ejector). Everything came out straight and clean. I did have to remove about 50% of the original metal. I cold-blued and oil-coated the bare metal. It basically looks like nothing has been done to it.

Question: Am I right in my assumption that this mag is going to break itself in to the point where it will lock in freely or should I just go ahead and remove just a tiny bit more metal?

Now, for the fail... the mag that I already worked over with a file the previous night... I, once again, used my dremel to remove the material closest to the mag's body, where it's the thickest and where I was having difficulty with a file. Eventually, the mag just snapped right into the rifle and I was very happy, until I tried to eject it and the mag just stayed in place. I mean, it was released, but required me to manually pull it out. The Super's mag ejector wasn't catching something. I am not sure if this is because I have filed off too much material from the very tip or if I need to remove a bit more material closer to the mag's body? It's kinda hard to tell what's happening there.

Tonight, I will post some close-up pics of what both of the mag locking lugs look right now, tonight. Maybe you can tell me where I went wrong with the one that doesn't eject?

Oh well... even if I did remove too much material from that one, it still locks in and probably feeds just fine.

EDIT: Here are the pics:

IMG_0579.jpg IMG_0584.jpg

IMG_0590.jpg IMG_0591.jpg


So the mag on the right locks in (with a little slap) and ejects great, while the one on the left locks in easily, but does not eject. Notice how much material I had to remove. Both lugs are now almost as thin as the factory ones. So, as far as the mag that doesn't eject (the one on the left), does it look like I removed too much material at the very edge or not enough material closer towards the mags body? What do you think? Thanks.

Edited by SpetsnazGRU, 19 May 2012 - 12:28 AM.


#11 SpetsnazGRU

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 04:26 AM

UPDATE: Both mags manually feed/cycle just fine. I went ahead and grinded a bid more off the mag that doesn't properly eject, making the thickest part of the locking lug (the one that's closest to the mag's body), look more like the one on the other mag. I cold-blued and coated it in oil for the night. Going to try it tomorrow and see whether it ejects now. Fingers crossed!

So far, it appears to me, like the Supers just need much thinner locking lugs. Maybe, it has something to do with the assisted mag release mechanism (ejector) on them? That mechanism is probably there, due to the amount of wood that the mag has to travel through before it's inserted or removed.

UPDATE: I think that I figured out why that one mag doesn't eject. I believe that the mag's body is slightly too thick for my mag well. Every time that I insert and remove this mag, it gets a bit scratched and scuffed on the sides. It seem to fit in there a bit too tightly. The ejector doesn't
have enough for to push it out. I am hoping that it will eventually brake in.

Edited by SpetsnazGRU, 20 May 2012 - 09:20 PM.


#12 Dracozny

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 01:24 AM

one of my slab mags I got to fit this way, the other two and spare mag body that I have don't even seat into the mag well, I still cant figure out where its binding at.

#13 csspecs

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 10:44 PM

Check if the feed lips are contacting the receiver guide rails. It the feedlips are contacting on the front edge and stopping upward travel then the bottom side of the front needs to be trimmed a few thousandths.

The location of the front trunnion seem to vary a little rifle to rifle, but more so on the supers and hunters.

The slab sides had been built for the early import models, we slightly changed the design with the stamped to better match the reports we received on the new imports.

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#14 Dracozny

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 11:26 PM

the feed lips wont contact the rails, so it sounds like I might need to shave down the sides a bit

#15 csspecs

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Posted 25 August 2012 - 01:14 AM

You can compress the slabsides a decent amount before causing problems, to the tune of about 8-10 thousandths, which is more then you will remove with grinding ect. The slab sides did always tend to have any tooling run out show up in the form of extra width, or length.

Something you want to do with any magazine fitting is to look for any other point of contact prior to doing any cutting.

Sadly I don't have a Hunter, or Super on hand. They are supposed to be the same for magazines per the manufacturer.

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#16 Dracozny

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Posted 25 August 2012 - 02:40 PM

Compressing it did the trick.
used the bench vice to compress the sides and then had to compress the back side back in a tad. fits like a glove, now I just need to grind the locking lug and all will be well
thanks.

edit: well that got one working the other one and the spare mag body are still too fat to fit.

Edited by Dracozny, 25 August 2012 - 03:08 PM.





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