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plain old noob questions...


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so i have decided on the saiga-12 as my first purchase. i've seen a lot of info and pictures on the forums, so i have a few questions. sorry if i didn't look around enough first.

 

so barrel length depends on where you live? and what kind of ammo can i use, anything 12g?

 

i plan on buying it stock, so will i be able to swap parts as i go? (of course with the necessary instruction and tools...)

 

can i really trust online dealers like centerfiresystems, and do you have an opinion on will a dealer in my area actually do a transfer (just in general, since they seem to lose business like that), or does everyone purchase face to face?

 

and ive tried searching online for my states "absolute" gun laws, should i really rely on info online or should i go to police/sheriff stations?

 

like i said, 100% new - soon to be owner, and probably moronic questions for you all. feel free to flag post if i broke the rules. i just want to have all the info before i invest a lot of time and money in becoming a fabled "saiga lover". thanks for your time.

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Barrel length is going to depend on federal laws, you can go shorter, but only in some states and to do so requires you to get it approved to be a SBS I think $400 plus whatever it takes you to get it chopped correctly. Most ammo will work in it, but some Saiga12's don't like weakly loaded stuff so typically the hotter the better, only shells should be between 2 3/4' and 3".

 

You need to stay compliant with federal law if you alter the gun; look in the legal section of this forum. Or seach Saiga compliance check list here or on google.

 

Call around to dealers in your area to find what the transfer charge is. I have ordered through classic arms and had good luck, I have many associates who get what they order from J&G sales and atlantic arms.

 

 

Most of the time you can find this stuff out without bugging the police, but A. sometimes local law is not up to date. B. Sometimes the internet information can be incorrect as well. Your call there, but I'd just look into it. What state are you from, someone here can likely offer insight if they are familiar, again take with a grain of salt/

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Oh shotgun barrel length must be 18" plus.

 

Check this link:

 

http://thegunwiki.com/Gunwiki/BuildSaigaShotgunVerifyCompliance

 

(quote from them on the summary of the law)

"The United States has a lovely bit of import law, which prevents most of the more interesting rifle designs from being directly imported into the US. It prevents the direct importation of AK-series rifles, and has ended up creating a market for demilitarized parts kits.

However, the "sporterized" Saiga rifles are allowed to be imported because, although based on an AK action, they do not have pistol grips or the capacity to accept an AK-47 magazine. However, because plenty of folks ardently desire a Russian-made AK, they buy Saigas and convert them into AK-47's. But because they have a different initial parts count than the AK-47, folks get confused and start thinking that it's somehow easier to convert a Saiga to be 922® compliant than a normal AK-47. This is not the case, particularly since folks typically want to keep the Russian-made receiver, which requires them to get into changing out the gas piston or other such silliness. At any rate, it is not necessary to alter a Saiga for 922® compliance unless it has ceased to be a sporting rifle. Adding a pistol grip or folding stock to one absolutely triggers 922®. However, it is not certain that converting one to accept AK-47 magazines automatically triggers a need for 922® compliance. One other special consideration for the Saiga is that if you're doing a conversion which utilizes a pistol grip, the pistol grip becomes a counted 922® part. But in the base Saiga, there is no pistol grip so it doesn't count.

Please be aware that ATF considers any shotgun with more than 5 rounds of magazine capacity to be "non-sporting". If you choose to use the 10rd or 20rd magazines on your Saiga-12, you must be 922® compliant first!

At any rate, the sum of all the check boxes in the form below will automatically add themselves up as you click and unclick them. This allows you to easily consider how you can ensure that your shotgun is as 922® compliant as it needs to be".

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useful tidbit there. so depending on what i want to add on to it, the ATF could kick my door in. and on that link, it seems that every part needed to make the gun itself, makes its non-compliant. would i have to pay attention to that if buying from a dealer? or just for add-ons?

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I think you misunderstand. If you are buying a factory made, stock Saiga, you do not need to be worried about 922 compliance. If you want to add a pistol grip to the Saiga (a process known as "converting" the gun), you will need to build the gun to 922 compliance. This is done easily by purchasing a conversion kit from a place like Carolina Shooters Supply:

 

http://store.carolin...vlet/StoreFront

 

Converting the S-12 requires using a drill and/or dremmel tool to move the fire control group (FCG) forward approximately 2 inches and adding the pistol grip. CSS has a series of videos detailing how to do this, and the whole process will probably take between 2-3 hours for your first time based on your level of experience with tools.

 

Using only the parts from the kit, you will be in 922 compliance with your conversion. Many other easy to replace parts are also counted in 922 compliance including:

 

Gas adjustment knob

Gas puck

Foregrip

Stock

 

As mentioned above, 922 compliance also matters if you are going to use magazines above 5 round capacity (which lets be honest, that's why you're buying the S-12). Consider this if you are going to use larger magazines.

 

Buying a stock S-12 has a lot of benefits as opposed to buying one converted. I also bought one from Classic Arms already converted, but it would not cycle "low brass" (also known as bird shot or target loads) out of the box. Many would suggest having the gas ports checked to ensure they were properly drilled, but I opted to get a new gas adjustment knob, and haven't had problems since. You have the advantage of knowing rather or not your S-12 cycles low brass from the factory, and that is good to know for troubleshooting if you run into problems later.

 

All in all, the Saiga 12 is a GREAT gun that is a LOT of fun to shoot and a definite attention getter at the range. ATF will not come kick your door down for 922 compliance, or at least I have never heard of an individual being busted or even checked for 922 compliance. That being said, the law is the law and American parts for your conversion are manufactured to good standards.

 

Welcome to the forum and your new addiction. Feel free to post here with questions, pictures, or concerns and most of the people around here are friendly enough to help. I recommend using the search function on the forum before you ask a question that has been asked before, but otherwise new topics are always welcome.

 

 

Also, to answer your questions in the first post:

 

Yes, acceptable barrel length depends on where you live, but anything over an 18" barrel is acceptable. You will find that most S-12's come with a 19" barrel from the factory.

 

You can use "any" 12 ga ammo. I say "any" because all of it will fit and fire, but some will cycle better than others.

 

Online dealers by and large are reputable, but you can search on here and on Google to find reviews of specific merchants. Some dealers are higher valued than others. Dealers in your area should not have a problem with an online purchase as long as they are FFLs. Find one and confirm this before you purchase.

Edited by FOURBUX
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I ordered a few guns including my saiga 12 from centerfiresystems with no problems. I got mine S12 for $499 before it went back up in price. You will have to give them an FFL dealer address to ship the gun to. The gun dealer will still make money off of u for a transfer fee. My FFL dealer charges me a $25 transfer fee.

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No they will not state that except some will state "made in the USA" i guess. There are many previous threads on this as to exact count and as to what parts count towards the count if you will.

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I ordered a few guns including my saiga 12 from centerfiresystems with no problems. I got mine S12 for $499 before it went back up in price. You will have to give them an FFL dealer address to ship the gun to. The gun dealer will still make money off of u for a transfer fee. My FFL dealer charges me a $25 transfer fee.

No they will not state that except some will state "made in the USA" i guess. There are many previous threads on this as to exact count and as to what parts count towards the count if you will.

 

Actually, parts made in the USA specifically for Saiga-12 frequently will mention 922 compliance as a selling point. I would even say usually mention it, since it is such an issue on the platform. There are other threads and places on this forum that talk about 922 compliance and what counts and what doesn't, those would be a good starting point if you have any questions about which parts do and don't.

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Agreed. The ad may state they are 922 compliant, but I read his post as asking whether the parts themselves have some sort of reference to 922 stamped on them. Someone previously posted a link to a interactive 922 checklist that was pretty cool.

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Now that you have your Saiga, I am sure that you will want to make it the best it could be. 922 compliance ends up just being an excuse to create your perfect weapon. Converting mine was confidence inspiring to the point that I wont do it FOR my friends. I love HELPING them if they need it. It's really easy, and the juice is worth the squeeze. You're already on the forum, and that's all you need. Take your time and soak in the information from the best in the world at realizing the Saigas potential. Take your time in ordering your parts,. You will be surprised how fast you taste can change considering weight, cost, and look of the parts you want at first. Don't settle for cheaper parts for now. You will still want what you wanted but just be that amount of $ away from what you wanted in the first place. Do follow the laws, the end result is worth it.

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